Hall of Fame Ballot (August 2007)

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 02 Aug 2007, 12:59

It's time for another Hall of Fame election. The deadline for submitting a ballot is Noon CDT on August 15, 2007. I will total the votes shortly after that.

A brief summary of the rules:
A voter can vote for up to 25 names. (If you vote for more than 25, your entire vote doesn't count.)
A fighters last fight has to be before August 15, 1997 to be eligible.
You can change your vote. Your last vote before the deadline will the one counted.
Candidates who are named on 75% or more of the ballots are inducted.

Go the Boxrec Hall of Fame Sticky for the complete rules and to see who has already been voted in. (The latest update of inductees are on page 2 of the Sticky)

To vote, just list your selections on this thread. (Don't put them on the Hall of Fame Sticky).

It would be appreciated if you list your selections in alphabetical order on your ballot.

In the past elections, there has been a great variety of fighters elected. Hopefully, we will continue to include fighters from a variety of eras,weight classes, countries, styles, etc.

It would be great if some regular posters who didn't vote last time as well as some new posters will vote this time. It's a lot of fun.

To get things started, here is my ballot:

Abe Attell
Nino Benvenuti
Wilfred Benitez
Panama Al Brown
Kid Chocolate
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Gene Fullmer
Kid Gavilan
Wilfredo Gomez
Fighting Harada
Harold Johnson
Johnny Kilbane
Sonny Liston
Jimmy McClarnin
Packy McFarland
Rueben Olivares
Carlos Ortiz
Aaron Pryor
Vincente Saldivar
Michael Spinks
John L Sullivan
Dick Tiger
Ike Williams
Carlos Zarate

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 02 Aug 2007, 17:51

ABE ATTELL
JIMMY BARRY
NINO BENVENUTI
PANAMA AL BROWN
MARCEL CERDAN
ANTONIO CERVANTES
KID CHOCOLATE
YOUNG CORBETT III
LES DARCY
JIM DRISCOLL
KHAOSAI GALAXY
MIKE GIBBONS
TOMMY GIBBONS
WILFREDO GOMEZ
JOHN HENRY LEWIS
KID McCOY
PACKEY McFARLAND
TERRY McGOVERN
JIMMY McLARNIN
PHILADELPHIA JACK O'BRIEN
CARLOS ORTIZ
PASCUAL PEREZ
TOMMY RYAN
PANCHO VILLA
CARLOS ZARATE

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 03 Aug 2007, 03:57

1 Abe Attell
2 Nino Benvenuti
3 Jack Britton
4 Panama Al Brown
5 Charley Burley
6 Marcel Cerdan
7 George Dixon
8 Jim Driscoll
9 Tiger Flowers
10 Tommy Gibbons
11 Khaosai Galaxy
12 Wilfredo Gomez
13 Fighting Harada
14 Ted Kid Lewis
15 Tommy Loughran
16 Packy McFarland
17 Terry McGovern
18 Mike McCallum
19 Jimmy McLarnin
20 Carlos Ortiz
21 Eusebio Pedroza
22 Tommy Ryan
23 Michael Spinks
24 Ike Williams
25 Carlos Zarate

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 03 Aug 2007, 04:00

Alp

Fullmer over Cerdan, Burley and Flowers?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 03 Aug 2007, 10:31

Yes. Fullmer was probably the best middleweight of probably the deepest era in the history of the middleweight divison.

Fullmer beat Robinson, Basilio twice,Webb twice,Paret,and Pender. He also beat several other very good fighters. He certainly wasn't a pretty fighter, but he was a tough as nails and was truly a great fighter.

Flowers,Cerdan and Burley were all great fighters. However, we can only vote for 25 and they along with a few others just missed the cut for me. I'm sure that I will vote for them in future ballots after a few more guys have been elected and there is room for them.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 03 Aug 2007, 11:03

That puts Fullmer in your top 7 at MW... That seems too high for me. I wouldn't rate him as high as La Motta. I'm not saying Fullmer wasn't a great fighter but he wouldn't make my MW top 10.

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 03 Aug 2007, 12:16

Abe Attell
Carmen Basilio
Wilfred Benitez
Nino Benvenuti
Charley Burley
Kid Chocolate
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Kid Gavilan
Wilfredo Gomez
Harold Johnson
Jake LaMotta
Sonny Liston
Nicolino Locche
Tommy Loughran
Terry McGovern
Ruben Oliveras
Carlos Ortiz
Floyd Patterson
Dick Tiger
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Walcott (original)
Ike Williams
Holman Williams
Carlos Zarate

Sorry about voting for fighters already inducted I replaced them with Carlos Zarate, Sonny Liston, Harold Johnson and Abe Attell.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 03 Aug 2007, 14:17

Minotauro- Lou Ambers,Tony Canzoneri,Joe Frazier, and Emile Griffith have already been elected.
You can vote for up to 4 more fighters. You don't have to do your ballot over. You can either just name the four fighters or edit your previous post.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 03 Aug 2007, 14:21

Antonio Cervantes
Billy Conn
Carlos De Leon
Carlos Ortiz
Carmen Basilio
Charley Burley
Cocoa Kid
Esteban De Jesus
Eusebio Pedrosa
Holman Williams
Ike Williams
Jake LaMotta
Jose Torres
Kid Chocolate
Kid Gavilan
Luis Rodriguez
Nicolino Locche
Nino Benvenuti
Panama Al Brown
Pedro Montañez
Ruben Olivares
Terry McGovern
Tommy Loughran
Wilfred Benitez
Wilfredo Gomez

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Aug 2007, 12:30

Carmen Basillio
Wilfred Benitez
Charley Burley
Kid Chocolate
Marcel Cerdan
Billy Conn
Jim Corbett
Les Darcy
Khaosai Galaxy
Kid Gavilan
Wilfredo Gomez
Jake LaMotta
Sonny Liston
Nicolino Locche
Tommy Loughran
Ruben Oliveras
Carlos Ortiz
Floyd Patterson
Aaron Pryor
Michael Spinks
John L. Sullivan
Dick Tiger
Ike Williams
Carlos Zarate
Fritze Zivic

I am glad this is running again.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 04 Aug 2007, 12:36

I dont get this

do we name fighters who are not yet named into the real HOF's? Or what? Is there a BoxRec list of who already is in their HOF?

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 04 Aug 2007, 16:36

HomicideHenry wrote:I dont get this do we name fighters who are not yet named into the real HOF's? Or what? Is there a BoxRec list of who already is in their HOF?

we have inducted 28 Boxers so far... this is only the Forum's HOF so here is the link to the selected fighters. Make a list of 25 unnamed fighters and submit them in alphabetical order (last name).

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 04 Aug 2007, 21:11

Well, without me this time. Carmen Basilio, who is over-over-overdue, has again no chance the way the early voting is going, and Conn is behind the threshold as well. I'm tired of voting for other peoples' favorites just to make sure that some folks get in, and the obvious choices are being left out time in again. I'm at loss how one would nominate Johnny Kilbane or Mike Gibbons or Pedro Montanez or Khaosai Galaxy before Basilio.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 04 Aug 2007, 21:28

Ambling Alp wrote:Yes. Fullmer was probably the best middleweight of probably the deepest era in the history of the middleweight divison.

Fullmer beat Robinson, Basilio twice,Webb twice,Paret,and Pender. He also beat several other very good fighters. He certainly wasn't a pretty fighter, but he was a tough as nails and was truly a great fighter.

Robinson was beyond his due date (although still good enough to knock Fullmer out cold in the refight) and Basilio was a much smaller man. And the other names wouldn't warrant a nomination for nothing.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Aug 2007, 02:34

Abe Attell
Carmen Basilio
Wilfred Benetiz
Charley Burley
Tommy Burns
Marcel Cerdan
Billy Conn
James J. Corbett
James Figg
Gene Fullmer
Tiger Flowers
Joey Giardello
George Godfrey
Peter Jackson
Jake LaMotta
Sonny Liston
Tommy Loughran
Jem Mace
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Floyd Patterson
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
John L. Sullivan
Jersey Joe Walcott
Barbados Demon Joe Walcott

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 06 Aug 2007, 00:59

Abe Attell
Antonio Cervantes
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Mike Donovan (professor)
Jeff Fenech
Gene Fullmer
Beau Jack
Peter Jackson
Sonny Liston
Mike McCallum
Kid McCoy
Terry McGovern
Jimmy McLarnin
Battling Nelson
Lazlo Papp
Willie Pastrano
Pascual Perez
Dick Tiger
Jose Torres
Pancho Villa
Ike Williams
Joe Walcott (Barbados)
Ad Wolgast
Tony Zale

Hope this is only 25, if its more lemme know, I am too tired to count

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Aug 2007, 10:52

Regarding some of the comments Pundit made. I think he has a point, though I strongly disagree about Mike Gibbons, who had an exceptionally high winning pct, beat all the top MW's of his time, except Darcy who he never fought, and who was never stopped in 133 fights ! But unfortunately what does bother me about our system of balloting, particularly when I see fighters like Packey McFarland, Tommy Ryan, Pascual Perez etc doing so badly is the fact that the MAJORITY of votes are coming from people who don't even know who's already in and who's eligible. I can imagine if someone started a thread asking for everyones top 10 heavyweights of the 50's. If you happened to name someone who peaked in the 40's, you'd probably be informed of your lack of credibility in no uncertain terms.

I respect several posters opinions, but in the past when I see a guy name 15 heavyweights, as someone did in a particular month's voting I finally have to arrogantly ask what the hell does this guy know about boxing.

I'm probably in a minority here, and I'm not discouraging guys from taking part in this, but I honestly have to question alot of people's credibility when Rocky Marciano get's elected on the 1st ballot, and Bob Fitzsimmons, Joe Gans, Marvin Hagler, Stanley Ketchel, Sam Langford, Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney and Jimmy Wilde DON'T ! If Marciano is the 10th best fighter of all time pass me the bong so I can hallucinate too.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 07 Aug 2007, 01:37

Its part of the fun though, watching certain guys get closer and closer each time, or even taking a step back. Lets be real, there are different levels of knowledge going on here. I mean I consider myself to have an average knowledge of the past, and I know there are posters here who far surpass me on that, but the same can be said in voting for real HoF's where certain guys possess more knwledge than others. I respect Pundit, but the taking your ball home and pouting approach is alittle inmature. I just find this a fun and interesting aside.

As far as HWs go, I believe I only voted for 3, one of which from so far back in the past I dont think he'd even be considered a HW today.

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 07 Aug 2007, 12:08

Abe Attell
Wilfred Benitez
Charley Burley
Kid Chocolate
Billy Conn
George Dixon
Kid Gavilan
Peter Jackson
Harold Johnson
Jake LaMotta
Sonny Liston
Nicolino Locche
Tommy Loughran
Jem Mace
Terry McGovern
Ruben Oliveras
Manuel Ortiz
Floyd Patterson
Dick Tiger
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Walcott (original)
Ike Williams
Holman Williams
Tony Zale
Carlos Zarate

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 07 Aug 2007, 14:08

Did a rough count, I wont reveal the names (so as not to influence voting), but there are some guys with strong prospects of making it this time.

5 fighters with 7/9 - 77%
7 fighters with 6/9 - 66%
6 fighters with 5/9 - 55%
6 fighters with 4/9 - 44%
9 fighters with 3/9 - 33%
15 fighters with 2/9 - 22%
25 fighters with 1/9 - 11%
(I didnt round my figures)

I might be off alittle as it was a quick tally.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Aug 2007, 20:58

I assume Bert Gilroy is already in.

How about Ginger Sadd?

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 07 Aug 2007, 21:05

Wilfred Benitez
Wilfredo Gomez
Sonny Liston
Aaron Pryor
Michael Spinks
John L Sullivan

sockdolager · Post by **sockdolager** » 07 Aug 2007, 21:28

pretty sure you are supposed to put up 25 guys, obviously only a few of the 25 will make it.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 07 Aug 2007, 21:32

I think the rules said you can name up to 25, not necessarily 25 names.

JAHamilton77 · Post by **JAHamilton77** » 07 Aug 2007, 23:40

HomicideHenry wrote:I think the rules said you can name up to 25, not necessarily 25 names.

Yeah but such a scant ballot kind of screws things up, since it counts as a ballot, but only a few guys are named, ruining the percentages.

Should probably consider a minimum of 10-15 fighters (in the future)