Kessler has signed the contract

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Aug 2007, 02:20

There were worries that SN had been premature announcing Calzaghe-Kessler, selling tickets even though the Danes hadn't signed. Because, you know, Kessler's risking it all, taking his 2 belts right into Calzaghe's backyard & reportedly wasn't happy with the contract. But now it has been signed.

Euro News; Mikkel Kessler, Abraham and More Recommend this page

BS.com

By Per Ake Persson

Earlier today at a press conference in Copenhagen, Denmark, WBC and WBA super middleweight champ Mikkel Kessler signed his part of the contract for the mega fight on November 3 in Cardiff against WBO ruler Joe Calzaghe. Kessler told reporters he didn´t view fighting away from home as a problem. Mogens Palle stated that negotiations with Sports Network´s allegedly had been long and very hard. There is still no time set for when the fight will take place but it could be in the middle of the night for European fight fans to give US viewers on HBO a nice evening with one of the biggest fights in 2007 - and it´s by far the biggest fight in history with a Nordic fighter involved. Only Ingemar Johansson´s fights with Floyd Pattersson in 59,60 and 61 come anywhere close to this.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 16 Aug 2007, 04:44

How could Warren have legally put tickets on sale before Kessler signed the contract?

They needn't bother flattering the US by fighting late, they won't care much probably.

chief · Post by **chief** » 16 Aug 2007, 04:47

Twisted Transistor wrote:How could Warren have legally put tickets on sale before Kessler signed the contract?

They needn't bother flattering the US by fighting late, they won't care much probably.

My understanding is that theres a lot of US interest in this one... Not sure its right up there with Cotto/Mosely & Hatton/PBF but it's still a big fight that will get their attention...

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 16 Aug 2007, 05:03

Well they went to Setanta to help make the fight - Or so that is what we where led to believe.

It isn't as if American tv money has been a requirement to make the fight - Not sure we should be bowing to their demands on this one.

Anyway, it is good news to see some confirmation from the Kessler camp that a contract is signed.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Aug 2007, 06:20

Twisted Transistor wrote:How could Warren have legally put tickets on sale before Kessler signed the contract?

They needn't bother flattering the US by fighting late, they won't care much probably.

What's illegal about it?

If the fight then didn't happen, or happened at a different date, they could reissue tickets for another date.

The US will care. It's not a megafight in the states, but it's still a potential audience that shouldn't be ignored.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Aug 2007, 06:22

Twisted Transistor wrote:How could Warren have legally put tickets on sale before Kessler signed the contract?

They needn't bother flattering the US by fighting late, they won't care much probably.

more money in the pot. I read either an article or a presser that said we're open to US TV, in other words we'll have it in the early hrs of the morning if you pay us more.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 16 Aug 2007, 06:23

Kessler said yesterday that it ain't going to be easy against the fast Calzaghe..

but Calzaghe is beatable and only a human being..

Kessler is convinsed that if he lands 1/3 of the big shots that he did against Andrade on Joe...

the welsh-man will kiss the floor because his chin is weaker then Andrade's..

I think the shots Andrade took were out of this world. Everybody has a china chin compared to him.

Kessler also said that it would be difficult to find a sparring partner with the same style and explosiveness as Calzaghe.

What do you guy`s thinks,will Calzaghe be floor if Kessler hit`s Calzaghe with some big shots that he did against Andrade ??

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Aug 2007, 06:29

First off, Andrade was very good practise for Cazlaghe. Though totally difference style-wise, he is one of the busiest super middles in the world - never stops coming at you.

Calzaghe will be harder to catch than Andrade. But Kessler can cope with a fast pace. And Joe isn't hard to hit with right hands.

Calzaghe has looked messy of recent. I like Kessler's chances. If Mario Veit can nearly drop him with a straight right, Kessler can drop him.

The Dane will probably make a slow start but I think he gets the measure of Joe.

If Kessler is able to take a step over to the side and rattle off 4 punch combos on the blindside, the Welshman won't know what's hit him.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 16 Aug 2007, 06:39

Bute is the obvious choice for sparring, while not a carbon copy of Calzaghe there are many similarities in their styles.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Aug 2007, 06:40

nickd wrote:Bute is the obvious choice for sparring, while not a carbon copy of Calzaghe there are many similarities in their styles.

definitely. very fast hands, likes to hit in flurries. Bute is class - I just hope that Bute has more spunk in him than he showed in the Bika fight.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 16 Aug 2007, 07:06

nickd wrote:Bute is the obvious choice for sparring, while not a carbon copy of Calzaghe there are many similarities in their styles.

I don`t think Kessler will use Bute to sparring,if Kessler beat Calzaghe,i think he will go after the IBF-belt to unify the SMW.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 16 Aug 2007, 07:58

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Twisted Transistor wrote:How could Warren have legally put tickets on sale before Kessler signed the contract?

They needn't bother flattering the US by fighting late, they won't care much probably.
What's illegal about it?

If the fight then didn't happen, or happened at a different date, they could reissue tickets for another date.

The US will care. It's not a megafight in the states, but it's still a potential audience that shouldn't be ignored.

False advertising?

Wouldn't only the Hardcore Us fans care though?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 16 Aug 2007, 08:03

Calzaghe a weaker chin than Andrade? Calzaghe's chin Is iron. Calzaghe can take a dig as hard as any Supermiddle. Has Kessler had a chin test too?

Andrade never fought a top 10 Supermiddle before Kessler but gets a mandatry shot for beating Otis Grant on the comeback.

Bute is the obvious choice for sparring, while not a carbon copy of Calzaghe there are many similarities in their styles.

Bute and Joe do have simular offence.

What sparring would be good for Calzaghe?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 16 Aug 2007, 08:44

Calzaghe got hurt at the end of the Eubank and Brewer fights, got stung in the Veit rematch (end of round 1), got dropped by Mitchell and Salem because he leaves his head wide open when he punches.

Andrade kept taking evil punches all night vs Kessler. He took unexpected shots that he didn't see coming from the sides, the impact & frequency of which would stop many a fighter if they were there to take 'em flush.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 16 Aug 2007, 21:14

Hmmm...

Yes, Andrade has a better chin than Calzaghe... BUT Andrade has a better chin than Kessler too. Andrade basically just has a ridiculous chin.

Imo. Calzaghe has a really good chin. He has been caught several times, gone down a couple of times, but never been very shaken. I think Kessler is setting himself up for a disappointment if he thinks he will stop Calzaghe. I really doubt that will happen.

Imo. Kessler's best bet is to keep Calzaghe at a distance at all times during the fight. Especially keep Joe from doing the 8, 10, 12 comboes Joe likes to get off. Joe will not hit very hard with thoise so they are not very dangerous buit they win rounds if he gets in many of those. It is clear to see that where most fighters train 1, 2, 3, 4 and maybe 5 punch combos.. that Joe has trained in just getting punches of in a rythm without end. For instance in the Manfredo fight that is very clear. He sort of gets settled in a rythm and looks like he is in the gym.

Sure, Kessler might floor Joe, but it is not a good sign if Kessler is betting all on a KO win, because imo. that is not that likely.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 16 Aug 2007, 21:48

Autobarn wrote:Andrade kept taking evil punches all night vs Kessler. He took unexpected shots that he didn't see coming from the sides, the impact & frequency of which would stop many a fighter if they were there to take 'em flush.

An alternative interpretation of those events is that Kessler doesn't pack as much KO power at the top level as some might think. I'm not suggesting that's the case, as I haven't seen enough of him to comment with conviction, but you have to accept there are two ways to view the Andrade fight on a punch resistance/power level.
The only time I've ever really seen Calzaghe consistently 'eat' right-hands was against Reid, and in fights he's up for he's a master of displaying angles - the Lacy fight being the perfect showcase. Let's not forget that Dan Birmingham, who also trains Winky Wright, desribed Calzaghe's performance as a "masterclass" in terms of timing, footwork and angles.
For all Kessler's undoubted strengths, he does appear to possess a fairly conventional, upright European style and will never have faced a boxer with Calzaghe's skills, something, to his credit, that he appears to acknowledge himself.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Aug 2007, 01:51

I think Kessler's leagues above any boxer out of Europe that I've seen - though Povetkin can definitely change my mind. The way he times that jab, edges in and out of range is excellent.

I don't doubt Kessler lacks raw KO power. But the punches he hit Andrade with were still very hard & the impact was increased by the Mexican not seeing many of them coming.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 17 Aug 2007, 03:48

Deserter wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Andrade kept taking evil punches all night vs Kessler. He took unexpected shots that he didn't see coming from the sides, the impact & frequency of which would stop many a fighter if they were there to take 'em flush.
An alternative interpretation of those events is that Kessler doesn't pack as much KO power at the top level as some might think. I'm not suggesting that's the case, as I haven't seen enough of him to comment with conviction, but you have to accept there are two ways to view the Andrade fight on a punch resistance/power level.
The only time I've ever really seen Calzaghe consistently 'eat' right-hands was against Reid, and in fights he's up for he's a master of displaying angles - the Lacy fight being the perfect showcase. Let's not forget that Dan Birmingham, who also trains Winky Wright, desribed Calzaghe's performance as a "masterclass" in terms of timing, footwork and angles.
For all Kessler's undoubted strengths, he does appear to possess a fairly conventional, upright European style and will never have faced a boxer with Calzaghe's skills, something, to his credit, that he appears to acknowledge himself.

It would be possible for someone that had no prior knowledge what so ever.

The few times Tyson went the distance with a mediocre guy, someone with an equal lack of knowledge could argue that maybe the guy he fought didn't have a good chin - maybe Tyson's power wasn't all that.

Well - clearly in order to infer anything that is worth reading - we need to analyze what happened in context and with knowledge of both fighters' histories.

If we do that he will find that Kessler has an extremely high stoppage percentage and as an example Kessler has a far higher percentage of clean KO stoppages than for instance Calzaghe (or Lacy for that matter). As for Andrade, he has been hit flush in every fight he has had and he has never been visibly shaken.

Ergo.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 17 Aug 2007, 14:10

i am sure Kessler will use Erik Teymour and Sergey Tatevosyan for sparring again, both fast handed southpaws who prepared him so well for the Fight with Beyer.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Aug 2007, 14:15

knockout wrote:i am sure Kessler will use Erik Teymour and Sergey Tatevosyan for sparring again, both fast handed southpaws who prepared him so well for the Fight with Beyer.

didn't he spar 300 rds with them?

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 17 Aug 2007, 20:30

Autobarn wrote:
knockout wrote:i am sure Kessler will use Erik Teymour and Sergey Tatevosyan for sparring again, both fast handed southpaws who prepared him so well for the Fight with Beyer.
didn't he spar 300 rds with them?

I very much doubt it.
Thats way too much sparring for a fight.
i Guess somewhere in the region of 100-150 rounds.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 18 Aug 2007, 00:08

Deram wrote:
Deserter wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Andrade kept taking evil punches all night vs Kessler. He took unexpected shots that he didn't see coming from the sides, the impact & frequency of which would stop many a fighter if they were there to take 'em flush.
An alternative interpretation of those events is that Kessler doesn't pack as much KO power at the top level as some might think. I'm not suggesting that's the case, as I haven't seen enough of him to comment with conviction, but you have to accept there are two ways to view the Andrade fight on a punch resistance/power level.
The only time I've ever really seen Calzaghe consistently 'eat' right-hands was against Reid, and in fights he's up for he's a master of displaying angles - the Lacy fight being the perfect showcase. Let's not forget that Dan Birmingham, who also trains Winky Wright, desribed Calzaghe's performance as a "masterclass" in terms of timing, footwork and angles.
For all Kessler's undoubted strengths, he does appear to possess a fairly conventional, upright European style and will never have faced a boxer with Calzaghe's skills, something, to his credit, that he appears to acknowledge himself.

If we do that he will find that Kessler has an extremely high stoppage percentage and as an example Kessler has a far higher percentage of clean KO stoppages than for instance Calzaghe (or Lacy for that matter).

Ergo.

Agree,Calzaghe has only two clean KO and Lacy has five,but Kessler has eighteen clean KO

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 18 Aug 2007, 03:22

Deram wrote:
Deserter wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Andrade kept taking evil punches all night vs Kessler. He took unexpected shots that he didn't see coming from the sides, the impact & frequency of which would stop many a fighter if they were there to take 'em flush.
An alternative interpretation of those events is that Kessler doesn't pack as much KO power at the top level as some might think. I'm not suggesting that's the case, as I haven't seen enough of him to comment with conviction, but you have to accept there are two ways to view the Andrade fight on a punch resistance/power level.
The only time I've ever really seen Calzaghe consistently 'eat' right-hands was against Reid, and in fights he's up for he's a master of displaying angles - the Lacy fight being the perfect showcase. Let's not forget that Dan Birmingham, who also trains Winky Wright, desribed Calzaghe's performance as a "masterclass" in terms of timing, footwork and angles.
For all Kessler's undoubted strengths, he does appear to possess a fairly conventional, upright European style and will never have faced a boxer with Calzaghe's skills, something, to his credit, that he appears to acknowledge himself.
It would be possible for someone that had no prior knowledge what so ever.

The few times Tyson went the distance with a mediocre guy, someone with an equal lack of knowledge could argue that maybe the guy he fought didn't have a good chin - maybe Tyson's power wasn't all that.

Well - clearly in order to infer anything that is worth reading - we need to analyze what happened in context and with knowledge of both fighters' histories.

If we do that he will find that Kessler has an extremely high stoppage percentage and as an example Kessler has a far higher percentage of clean KO stoppages than for instance Calzaghe (or Lacy for that matter). As for Andrade, he has been hit flush in every fight he has had and he has never been visibly shaken.

Ergo.

Thanks for the patronising comments, always a welcome touch.
Getting back the subject matter, "ergo" doesn't quite cut it, when, for example, you've got no comparative context for Andrade i.e. Kessler is the only world-class fighter in his prime that he's faced to date so that alone isn't enough to determine his "iron chin". Imagine Andrade fought Bute in his next fight and got KO'ed, where would that leave your hypothesis?
We've all seen plenty of examples of both fighters who appeared to possess brutal KO power at a lower level, and fighters who appeared to have solid chins at a lower level, but were subsequently "found out" when they reached the fringes of world-class.
As previously stated, I'm not attempting to provide a definitive conclusion I'm just drawing attention to a plausible alternative interpretation.

Deram · Post by **Deram** » 18 Aug 2007, 03:42

Deserter wrote:
Deram wrote:
Deserter wrote: An alternative interpretation of those events is that Kessler doesn't pack as much KO power at the top level as some might think. I'm not suggesting that's the case, as I haven't seen enough of him to comment with conviction, but you have to accept there are two ways to view the Andrade fight on a punch resistance/power level.
The only time I've ever really seen Calzaghe consistently 'eat' right-hands was against Reid, and in fights he's up for he's a master of displaying angles - the Lacy fight being the perfect showcase. Let's not forget that Dan Birmingham, who also trains Winky Wright, desribed Calzaghe's performance as a "masterclass" in terms of timing, footwork and angles.
For all Kessler's undoubted strengths, he does appear to possess a fairly conventional, upright European style and will never have faced a boxer with Calzaghe's skills, something, to his credit, that he appears to acknowledge himself.
It would be possible for someone that had no prior knowledge what so ever.

The few times Tyson went the distance with a mediocre guy, someone with an equal lack of knowledge could argue that maybe the guy he fought didn't have a good chin - maybe Tyson's power wasn't all that.

Well - clearly in order to infer anything that is worth reading - we need to analyze what happened in context and with knowledge of both fighters' histories.

If we do that he will find that Kessler has an extremely high stoppage percentage and as an example Kessler has a far higher percentage of clean KO stoppages than for instance Calzaghe (or Lacy for that matter). As for Andrade, he has been hit flush in every fight he has had and he has never been visibly shaken.

Ergo.
Thanks for the patronising comments, always a welcome touch.
Getting back the subject matter, "ergo" doesn't quite cut it, when, for example, you've got no comparative context for Andrade i.e. Kessler is the only world-class fighter in his prime that he's faced to date so that alone isn't enough to determine his "iron chin". Imagine Andrade fought Bute in his next fight and got KO'ed, where would that leave your hypothesis?
We've all seen plenty of examples of both fighters who appeared to possess brutal KO power at a lower level, and fighters who appeared to have solid chins at a lower level, but were subsequently "found out" when they reached the fringes of world-class.
As previously stated, I'm not attempting to provide a definitive conclusion I'm just drawing attention to a plausible alternative interpretation.

The problem with your post is not that there is not that other theoretical explanation. The problem is that it is not plausible. At least not for someone with prior knowledge. Knowing that Kessler has the highest KO-ratio of any SMW champion is already more than enough to make "your" scenario unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely). More, we have seen Andrade take punch after punch straight to the chin in all his fights. Obviously he has a very poor defense, but an extreme chin.

So, while there there two theoretical possiblities. Namely a) Andrade has a mediocre chin and Kessler does not hit very hard and b) Kessler hits hard but andrade has a really good chin.

Option b is clearly the plausible explanation here. I do think you can see that.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 18 Aug 2007, 13:56

Deram wrote:
Deserter wrote:
Deram wrote: It would be possible for someone that had no prior knowledge what so ever.

The few times Tyson went the distance with a mediocre guy, someone with an equal lack of knowledge could argue that maybe the guy he fought didn't have a good chin - maybe Tyson's power wasn't all that.

Well - clearly in order to infer anything that is worth reading - we need to analyze what happened in context and with knowledge of both fighters' histories.

If we do that he will find that Kessler has an extremely high stoppage percentage and as an example Kessler has a far higher percentage of clean KO stoppages than for instance Calzaghe (or Lacy for that matter). As for Andrade, he has been hit flush in every fight he has had and he has never been visibly shaken.

Ergo.
Thanks for the patronising comments, always a welcome touch.
Getting back the subject matter, "ergo" doesn't quite cut it, when, for example, you've got no comparative context for Andrade i.e. Kessler is the only world-class fighter in his prime that he's faced to date so that alone isn't enough to determine his "iron chin". Imagine Andrade fought Bute in his next fight and got KO'ed, where would that leave your hypothesis?
We've all seen plenty of examples of both fighters who appeared to possess brutal KO power at a lower level, and fighters who appeared to have solid chins at a lower level, but were subsequently "found out" when they reached the fringes of world-class.
As previously stated, I'm not attempting to provide a definitive conclusion I'm just drawing attention to a plausible alternative interpretation.
The problem with your post is not that there is not that other theoretical explanation. The problem is that it is not plausible. At least not for someone with prior knowledge. Knowing that Kessler has the highest KO-ratio of any SMW champion is already more than enough to make "your" scenario unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely). More, we have seen Andrade take punch after punch straight to the chin in all his fights. Obviously he has a very poor defense, but an extreme chin.

So, while there there two theoretical possiblities. Namely a) Andrade has a mediocre chin and Kessler does not hit very hard and b) Kessler hits hard but andrade has a really good chin.

Option b is clearly the plausible explanation here. I do think you can see that.

No. The difference is that you're talking in absolutes, and I'm talking about gradients. Option b) is perfectly plausible, you're quite right. but there are not only two theoretical possibilities e.g. Andrade has a reasonable chin that only a big, big puncher can penetrate is still plausible at this stage, as Kessler is the only world-class boxer he has been in with. If he lasts the course in the future against noted punchers then your case is proven, but as things stand the jury is still out to a degree.
As for the reference to KO ratios, any boxing fan worth their salt knows that you can't reduce this sport to statistics - I could name numerous examples off the top of my head, but look at the likes of Randall Bailey, who could seemingly KO anything that moved on his way up to world level, but was then found wanting at the highest levels. Alternatively look at other 'world' champs who have similarly impressive KO ratios, but then are shown to have 'padded records'....
We could go round and round in circles on this one, but for the record I'm simply stating that as Calzaghe is undoubtedly the best opponent Kessler has faced to date (by Kessler's own admission), none of us can determine with complete confidence how Kessler will cope in these 'deeper waters'. We may well find that he is able to get on top of Calzaghe with that jab, and hurt him with his power, but it's equally possible that Calzaghe's movement/angles and speed will befuddle him. It's the ambiguities of this fight that make it so fascinating and have us all salivating...