Middleweight Tournament

Invincible · Post by **Invincible** » 22 Dec 2002, 16:13

I did this on boxingtime as well, and it has progressed to the semi-finals by now.....let's see how it goes here.....here are the first round matchups (a little different then the ones on the other site), just vote on who you think wins each fight.....
Ray Robinson vs Stanley Ketchel
Bernard Hopkins vs Mickey Walker
Thomas Hearns vs Gene Fullmer
Charley Burley vs Roberto Duran
Carlos Monzon vs John Mugabi
Ray Leonard vs Jake LaMotta
Marvin Hagler vs Iran Barkley
Harry Greb vs Billy Conn
commence voting....

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 22 Dec 2002, 19:06

Robinson
Walker
Hearns
Burley
Monzon
Leonard
Hagler
Greb

Invincible · Post by **Invincible** » 22 Dec 2002, 19:51

Cool, I have the same, except Hopkins beats Walker in a close one....

Marcellus · Post by **Marcellus** » 26 Dec 2002, 12:06

1. Robinson
2. probalby Walker, but nor sure
3. Fullmer just too tough for Hearns, Hearns did not have the good chin
4. Don't know. rate Duran as a lightweight
5. Monzon
6. Leonard too quick for Lamotta
7. Hagler
8. Conn too slick for Greb

robinson is #1. Number 2 is really between Hagler and Monzon

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 06 Jan 2003, 00:54

Some good matches and good arguments can be made for the opinions, except for Leonard over LaMotta. No way.No chance. No possibility. No contest. The only betting odds would be on the length of Leonard's hospital stay.

Justin · Post by **Justin** » 06 Jan 2003, 09:11

Ray Robinson vs Stanley Ketchel - Robinson
Bernard Hopkins vs Mickey Walker - Hopkins
Thomas Hearns vs Gene Fullmer - Hearns
Charley Burley vs Roberto Duran - Hurans wins at Middles...
Carlos Monzon vs John Mugabi - Monzon
Ray Leonard vs Jake LaMotta - LaMotta
Marvin Hagler vs Iran Barkley - Hagler
Harry Greb vs Billy Conn - Ahh, tough one, but I pickConn over the busy Greb, Conn would outbox him, I think (But who knows, none of us have seen Greb fight, I've only seen training footage of him...)

safedweller · Post by **safedweller** » 06 Jan 2003, 17:26

Jaclem,
I'd like to agree about LaMotta because I don't like Ray Leonard, but I don't think it's so much of a lock for LaMotta. Ray would have a good chance to stay away and outbox.

As far as the others, many arguements could be made, but why even ask on Haglar vs. Barkley? Is that even a question? Hearns got sloppy the first time, but he had Barkley half dead before he got caught. I don't see Barkley even having a chance to get lucky w/Haglar.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 Jan 2003, 02:18

safedweller- I don't like Leonard either, but I didn't let my bias affect my judgement. Leonard doesn't really have a record as a middleweight, and LaMotta used to use welters for dental floss. Not a lot of LaMotta on film or tape, but even in the Robinson title loss his strength (drained by weight loss) is evident. Remember he was the first man to beat Robinson, and all of the pre title fights were close.I think he dropped him in one that he lost.
Robinson was just a welter then, but had punch, speed, chin, skill..all in excess and Leonard, regardless of how good a welter he was just didn't have enough of those qualities to handle LaMotta. Jake was fast and charged into boxers and punchers alike. Leonard was a good puncher, but not good enough to bother Jake. I saw LaMotta in a lot of fights, and the middleweights of the time avoided him, with reason. I'm not denigrating Leonard's skills... I'm just sure if you'd get a chance to see Jake in full battle pursuit you'd see why I'd give Leonard no chance. While I'm here, you're totally correct on Hagler vs. Barkley. A great middleweight vs a pretty good tough one, and Hagler would outclass him from the start.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 08 Jan 2003, 02:24

forgot height and reach...other assets Leonard wouldn't have over LaMotta, so he wouldn't be able to stay away and box.

...and to all a goodnight.

Italian 4 U · Post by **Italian 4 U** » 08 Jan 2003, 09:43

Nice tournament although the point is useless since Mr. Robinson would come out on top in the end....

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 08 Jan 2003, 10:20

Italian 4 u... Robinson is easily the greatest welterweight ever and gets my vote as the greatest fighter of all time. But he is not a sure thing as the greatest middleweight ever as you think.

Remember he did not even enter the division until he was in his 30s. He won the title at 31 and retired shortly thereafter. When he came back he was no longer an unbeatable fighter. That's why he was a 5-time middleweight champ. He kept losing his title.

Although he should be rated very high as a middleweight, there are many knowledgable boxing fans who rate Greb, Hagler and Monzon higher.

A case can be made that Robinson was the greatest middleweight ever but it is not a lock as you say.

Italian 4 U · Post by **Italian 4 U** » 08 Jan 2003, 13:05

tomato can wrote:Italian 4 u...
Remember he did not even enter the division until he was in his 30s

Exactly! And that's one of the reasons why I believe he is the greatest middle. To win the title 5 times in his 30's is incredible!!

[/quote] He kept losing his title.

[quote/]

Losing it in your 30's to the best fighters of the day after accomplishing what he had previously in his career spekas volumes!

[/quote] A case can be made that Robinson was the greatest middleweight ever but it is not a lock as you say.[/quote]

I understand that

But I have my opinion as you have yours and that's what makes this site great!

zurdo · Post by **zurdo** » 09 Jan 2003, 02:58

Why are mediocraties like Iran Barkley and John Mugabi Included while truly great fighters like Dick Tiger and Marcel Cerdan left out???

The Overweight Champ · Post by **The Overweight Champ** » 29 Jan 2003, 20:44

Ray robinson
Hopkins
gene Fullmer
Duran
Monzon
ray lenorad
Hagler
Greb

Ill contiue a little further
Ray Robinson ko7 Hopkins
Duran desicon over Fullmer would be cllose thou
Monzon ko 11 ray lenorad
Hagler ko3 Greb, jus differnet eras easy for hagler to win
next round
Ray Robinson descion over duran would be a battle
Hagler ko8 Monzon would be another war, jus think hagler would come out on top
last fight
Hagler draws Robinson to close to call, there both all time fighters that would beat alotta people in many differnet eras

Great tournment

MOJO RISIN · Post by **MOJO RISIN** » 06 Apr 2003, 05:12

thought i'd give my thoughts:
I'd take Ketchel to Ko Ray Robinson ala Turpin, Ray had trouble with sluggers.
Hopkins over Walker definately no doubt by decision.
A Lt.heavy Hearns over Fullmer, but this is very close.
Burley, I most definately think would beat a middleweight Duran.
Monson over Mugabi, although i like John.
I Like Lamotta over leonard.
Hagler over Barkley no doubt.
Greb would most definately beat Billy Conn at anyweight(even the louis 1 version).
My Dream fights of these fighters would be:
Ketchel vs Greb for the top 1 & 2 spots I always wonder about these two matched.
Robinson vs Monzon this would be a chess match.
Hagler vs Hopkins, I love both of these guys, I Don't The hagler of Mugabi vs The Hopkins of Trinidad; I Can't Decide?
Burley vs Walker; this would Rock! I Don't know?
Any thoughts on These matchups?

Irishlad69 · Post by **Irishlad69** » 06 Apr 2003, 11:11

Mojo, greb would NOT most definitely beat conn at any weight! I would pick harry at middleweight because conn was only a teenager when fighting there, and greb would probably rough him up. The conn that fought louis however, would be too fast, slick, and evolved scientifically for harry.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 07 Apr 2003, 05:34

2nd round results....

Ray Robinson makes Hopkins into a joke.

Tommy Hearns KTFO out of Duran again.

Monzon Manages to beat LaMotta.

Marvin Hagler gets a a TKO on Billy Conn.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 07 Apr 2003, 05:39

3rd round results...

Young, Powerful Tommy proves much for a slightly over the hill Sugar Ray Robinson, and catches him with 3 big rights in the 6th round. This time Joe Louis runs into the ring, and tries to revive Sugar Ray Robinson.

Marvin Hagler shows his power early, and keeps Monzon away all night, and wins by UD.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 07 Apr 2003, 05:42

4th round results...

Tommy Hearns and Marvin Hagler come out blazing again. Tommy wobbles Marvin in the 4th round, but Marvin regains himself very quickly, and KO's Tommy Hearns in the 6th round.

Hagler - Hearns 2 turns out just as exciting as the first one!

Marvin Hagler is the Middle Weight Champion of all time!