How big was John Ruiz v Roy Jones ?

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 24 Oct 2007, 23:37

In the big scheme of things ?

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 25 Oct 2007, 01:44

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Oct 2007, 17:19

Forgettable fight, forgettable event, historically really meant nothing as Ruiz was no more the HW champion as I was the NFL MVP.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Oct 2007, 17:53

Decagon wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Forgettable fight, forgettable event, historically really meant nothing as Ruiz was no more the HW champion as I was the NFL MVP.
Ruiz was closer to being the champion than most people in the NFL are to being the NFL MVP. He was a top-5 heavyweight for years and years. How often does a former middleweight do that?

Tommy Loughran began at middle (or lower, not sure) and beat a slew of top HWs. Where's his HBO special??

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 26 Oct 2007, 01:02

The Toney-Ruiz fight sort of took whatever luster there was away from this fight. The Toney win was taken away because of the steroids, but Toney was so overweight and sloppy in the fight that even if Toney didn't get the official victory, it sure didn't make Jones' win look too special. If it had been a natural Heavyweight like Rahman beating Ruiz then it would have been another story, but the fact that it was another ex-Middleweight, and an out of shape one at that, hurt the Jones-Ruiz fight. And the whole hype and importance of the Jones-Ruiz fight was not what it was made out to be to begin with, decagon already pointed out Ezzard Charles. There was also Fitzsimmons and Patterson who came up from Middleweight. And all Jones had really done was beaten a Heavyweight contender, he did not win the real Heavyweight title as those two had done.

Still, certainly not a bad win for Jones. But then he dropped back down in weight, which was basically the end for him. He should have fought Tarver first, then moved up to fight Ruiz.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Oct 2007, 08:19

I Feel Fine wrote:The Toney-Ruiz fight sort of took whatever luster there was away from this fight. The Toney win was taken away because of the steroids, but Toney was so overweight and sloppy in the fight that even if Toney didn't get the official victory, it sure didn't make Jones' win look too special. If it had been a natural Heavyweight like Rahman beating Ruiz then it would have been another story, but the fact that it was another ex-Middleweight, and an out of shape one at that, hurt the Jones-Ruiz fight. And the whole hype and importance of the Jones-Ruiz fight was not what it was made out to be to begin with, decagon already pointed out Ezzard Charles. There was also Fitzsimmons and Patterson who came up from Middleweight. And all Jones had really done was beaten a Heavyweight contender, he did not win the real Heavyweight title as those two had done.

Still, certainly not a bad win for Jones. But then he dropped back down in weight, which was basically the end for him. He should have fought Tarver first, then moved up to fight Ruiz.

??so you witnessed Toney abuse steroids???

Toney has hardly done much roadwork throughout his entire career. He's always done the bulk of his training through sparring many rounds.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 29 Oct 2007, 09:01

Got the Ruiz - Jones PPV as I was interested to see how the fight went. After a rocky start Jones ran rings around the much naturally bigger man

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Oct 2007, 02:12

dempseyfire wrote:??so you witnessed Toney abuse steroids???

No, but I along with every other boxing fan witnessed Toney's win changed to a no contest because he tested positive for steroids. Not good enough?

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 30 Oct 2007, 06:02

Jones himself weighed in at 195 and throughtout much of his career he walked about at 185 plus, making him a 'natural' L-HW...so as fighters do; - move up, Jones is a L-HW come HW (all things even before we 'dare' place these pretenders above the real greats)...

I agree wiyth Dec, and I for one never give into modern hype just because were in living colour and most fighters are known because of the 'luxury' of TV exposer...the facts are the facts and Ezzard Charles and his ELITE company is all the proof any HONEST observer of the sport knows without too much thought.

These were the real p4p'ders and as Barry has stated there literally are hundreds of them forgotten or near forgotten and all because of modern media attention and hype...so please stop talking shit and look, remember and research before making such typical 'today' bullshit statements!

Well said Dec.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 30 Oct 2007, 11:16

1. It was big in that it was more evidence that indicates how bad the heavyweight division has been in recent years.
2. It's also big in that it's more evidence that indicates that you don't have to be that big to be successful at heavyweight.

It's not that big in that too many people seem to ignore these points.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 30 Oct 2007, 11:35

I Feel Fine wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:??so you witnessed Toney abuse steroids???
No, but I along with every other boxing fan witnessed Toney's win changed to a no contest because he tested positive for steroids. Not good enough?

Sorry, mean to quote Decagon's post, which seemed to imply he saw Toney use roids and that without them he wouldn't have beaten Ruiz (which is ridiculous)

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 01 Nov 2007, 19:16

Ruby Bob Fitzsimmons won the heavyweight title while only 165 pounds. He won the Heavyweight title before he won the Light Heavyweight title because (gee whiz!) when he won the Heavyweight title there was no such thing as a Light Heavy.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 06 Nov 2007, 18:53

Brute wrote:Ruby Bob Fitzsimmons won the heavyweight title while only 165 pounds. He won the Heavyweight title before he won the Light Heavyweight title because (gee whiz!) when he won the Heavyweight title there was no such thing as a Light Heavy.

...and that's why Corbett [184 lbs] was also fighting as a "heavyweight" - not much incentive to fight at 175 if there's no "weight" there to make.

T.M.K · Post by **T.M.K** » 02 Dec 2007, 15:29

dempseyfire wrote:Forgettable fight, forgettable event, historically really meant nothing as Ruiz was no more the HW champion as I was the NFL MVP.

It's such a shame that you are correct.

Now if he'd beaten Lennox Lewis.........

"T.M.K"