BoxRec

Not sure how this determines the TV schedule (due to start at 8.15) and more quantity than quality, but here it is anyway:

allegedly In Association with INTERNATIONAL ENTERTAINMENT
Proudly Present
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP BOXING

Saturday 3rd November 2007

RUNNING ORDER

Stadium gates open at 7.30pm

There will be no admittance into the Stadium after 10.30pm

Fight # 1 - 20.15pm
4 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Heavyweight Contest
HARRY MILES V MARK PHILLIPS

Fight # 2
8 X 3 Minute Rounds Super-Middleweight Contest
NATHAN CLEVERLY V JOEY VEGAS

Fight # 3
4 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Heavyweight Contest
TONY BELLEW V ADAM WILCOX

Fight # 4
6 X 3 Minute Rounds Super Featherweight Contest
RICKY BURNS V YOUSEF AL HAMIDI

Fight # 5
6 X 3 Minute Rounds Middleweight Contest
KERRY HOPE V ERNIE SMITH

Fight # 6 - 22.30pm
6 X 3 Minute Rounds International Middleweight Contest
THOMAS POLLSEN V LEE NOBLE

Fight # 7
8 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Welterweight Contest
BARRIE JONES V TBA

Fight # 8
6 X 3 Minute Rounds International Cruiserweight Contest
ANDERS HUGGER V HASTINGS RASANI

Fight # 9 - 24.10pm
THE WBO WORLD CRUISERWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
12 X 3 Minute Rounds at 14st 4lb
ENZO MACCARINELLI V MOHAMED AZZAOUI

Fight # 10
4 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Welterweight Contest
JAMIE COX V DAVID KIRK

Fight # 11 - 01.25am
THE WBO, WBC AND WBA WORLD SUPER-MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
12 X 3 Minute Rounds at 12st
JOE CALZAGHE V MIKKEL KESSLER

OPPONENTS, FIGHT TIMINGS AND LINE UP ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE

Shockingly bad bill. So glad now that I didn't fork out to attend.

Yes its a stinker but I wouldn't mind being there for Cleverly v Vegas.

Typically, this is on so early in the show that few will get to see it :(

Deserter wrote:Shockingly bad bill. So glad now that I didn't fork out to attend.

But great top of the bill. And Burns on there is nice, too.

Listen, it's a shit bill for overall quality, but Frank doesn't have a bottomless pit of cash I'm sure and he must have forked out a fortune for Kessler.

If you want to see a landmark fight that is likely to last an hour, plus some other lower quality stuff, pay. If you don't, don't.

If somebody offered me 60 quid to watch Man United - Arsenal preceded by three hours of Conference football, I wouldn't say it was bad value.

I'm happy to subscribe to Setanta, but glad I didn't fork out for a ticket for that lot.

I'm interested in seeing Tony Bellows, the lad can certainly punch.
and he's slimmed down now he's in the pros.

If I had seen Joe fight live before, I wouldn't have!

Carbo wrote:Frank doesn't have a bottomless pit of cash I'm sure.

Carbo, I'm genuinely shocked at your reply. allegedly will be making huge sums of money from this fight thanks to the magic recipe of TV revenues and a huge live gate. He could easily have put on a stronger bill and still ensured his margins were huge. The idea that by forking out a bit more his promotion would be struggling to break even (which is the inference of your comment) is just laughable. Instead, he's just taking advantage of the fact that Calzaghe has such strong local support that he could put on virtually anything on the undercard without suffering a drop in revenues.
Simply put, Frank is milking his big cash cow for all he's worth as he's now very close to being put out to pasture. I understand it from a business perspective, but don't for a second endorse it from a fan's perspective.
It's a shocking bill judged by any true boxing fan's criteria and in the context of the ticket pricing... and that's without even going into the fact that unless you've paid big money to be close to ringside your view of the action is going to be err, interesting....

Apalling undercard it looks worse written in order! ;)

Carbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:Shockingly bad bill. So glad now that I didn't fork out to attend.

But great top of the bill. And Burns on there is nice, too.

Listen, it's a shit bill for overall quality, but Frank doesn't have a bottomless pit of cash I'm sure and he must have forked out a fortune for Kessler.

If you want to see a landmark fight that is likely to last an hour, plus some other lower quality stuff, pay. If you don't, don't.

If somebody offered me 60 quid to watch Man United - Arsenal preceded by three hours of Conference football, I wouldn't say it was bad value.

I'm Gurarentied that Manchester United Arsenal will last 90 mins.

If at a conservative estimate Warren is making an average of £40 a ticket and sells 60,000 of them then he is getting 2 and a half million quid, for the seat sales alone and then we can add TV money and sponsorship to that.

The least he could have done is use some of that money to put Rees on the undercard! Rees is shit for christ sakes but it would have got him some more fans (as Farell undercards got hatton more) and made for a better bill.

how much does FW pay to hire out the millenium stadium !!

rhino222 wrote:how much does FW pay to hire out the millenium stadium !!

When I worked in music promotion big events would be done on a % of tickets sold with a minimum which covers there running costs, with an outfit the size of SN they may be able to negotiate a flat rate though. doubt it'll amount to more than 100,000 though which is about 5% of the over all take.

josh fg wrote:

rhino222 wrote:how much does FW pay to hire out the millenium stadium !!

When I worked in music promotion big events would be done on a % of tickets sold with a minimum which covers there running costs, with an outfit the size of SN they may be able to negotiate a flat rate though. doubt it'll amount to more than 100,000 though which is about 5% of the over all take.

although in fairness the biggest venues I delt with were about 15,000 people not stadiums so not sure if that makes much of a difference.

Deserter wrote:

Carbo wrote:Frank doesn't have a bottomless pit of cash I'm sure.

Carbo, I'm genuinely shocked at your reply. allegedly allegedly will be making huge sums of money from this fight thanks to the magic recipe of TV revenues and a huge live gate. He could easily have put on a stronger bill and still ensured his margins were huge. The idea that by forking out a bit more his promotion would be struggling to break even (which is the inference of your comment) is just laughable. Instead, he's just taking advantage of the fact that Calzaghe has such strong local support that he could put on virtually anything on the undercard without suffering a drop in revenues.
Simply put, Frank is milking his big cash cow for all he's worth as he's now very close to being put out to pasture. I understand it from a business perspective, but don't for a second endorse it from a fan's perspective.
It's a shocking bill judged by any true boxing fan's criteria and in the context of the ticket pricing... and that's without even going into the fact that unless you've paid big money to be close to ringside your view of the action is going to be err, interesting....

I hear what you're saying, and I think I could perhaps phrase it differently by saying, 'Warren doesn't have a bottomless pit of fighters and he runs a business like any other.'

It is important to note that if more of Warren's real bread winners were stacked into the one show, it wouldn't add many more onto the bill while hacking into the number of higher margin shows he can put on over the next three months. That, of course, is the essense of your argument: he's milking it for all its worth. However, it's also a business, and a business that isn't in the same rude health we saw when he had a juicy 'we'll take owt you give us' contract with Sky; both Calzaghe and Hatton; Scott Harrison; a rising Matt Skelton; and, on a lower scale, pretty much every decent domestic level heavyweight in the country and Alex Arthur in regular action.

However, in the long term, it's typical of the myopic business model pervasive in sport in this country. It's all about maximising profits right now, while little investing is done for the future. Like football teams where prices go up while less and less cash is filtered down to the lower leagues, cometitive domestic matches are increasingly hard to come by in an effort to maximise the money to be had from a particular fighter. How are new fans going to be attracted to the sport, I wonder?

Half of me wants to applaud Warren for making the fight, but, the more I think about it -- thankfully prompted by posts like yours, Deserter -- the more I think that this match is 'guaranteed money' for a promoter as skillful as Warren, and he's actually pursuing short term aims.

I still stand by my point about the relative value of this match compared to football these days, but that may have something to do with the vastly inflated prices charged by football clubs rather than the value of this particular card. If so, I'm not afraid to admit a mistake, and stand corrected.

where skelton?

Carbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Carbo wrote:Frank doesn't have a bottomless pit of cash I'm sure.

Carbo, I'm genuinely shocked at your reply. allegedly allegedly allegedly will be making huge sums of money from this fight thanks to the magic recipe of TV revenues and a huge live gate. He could easily have put on a stronger bill and still ensured his margins were huge. The idea that by forking out a bit more his promotion would be struggling to break even (which is the inference of your comment) is just laughable. Instead, he's just taking advantage of the fact that Calzaghe has such strong local support that he could put on virtually anything on the undercard without suffering a drop in revenues.
Simply put, Frank is milking his big cash cow for all he's worth as he's now very close to being put out to pasture. I understand it from a business perspective, but don't for a second endorse it from a fan's perspective.
It's a shocking bill judged by any true boxing fan's criteria and in the context of the ticket pricing... and that's without even going into the fact that unless you've paid big money to be close to ringside your view of the action is going to be err, interesting....

I hear what you're saying, and I think I could perhaps phrase it differently by saying, 'Warren doesn't have a bottomless pit of fighters and he runs a business like any other.'

It is important to note that if more of Warren's real bread winners were stacked into the one show, it wouldn't add many more onto the bill while hacking into the number of higher margin shows he can put on over the next three months. That, of course, is the essense of your argument: he's milking it for all its worth. However, it's also a business, and a business that isn't in the same rude health we saw when he had a juicy 'we'll take owt you give us' contract with Sky; both Calzaghe and Hatton; Scott Harrison; a rising Matt Skelton; and, on a lower scale, pretty much every decent domestic level heavyweight in the country and Alex Arthur in regular action.

However, in the long term, it's typical of the myopic business model pervasive in sport in this country. It's all about maximising profits right now, while little investing is done for the future. Like football teams where prices go up while less and less cash is filtered down to the lower leagues, cometitive domestic matches are increasingly hard to come by in an effort to maximise the money to be had from a particular fighter. How are new fans going to be attracted to the sport, I wonder?

Half of me wants to applaud Warren for making the fight, but, the more I think about it -- thankfully prompted by posts like yours, Deserter -- the more I think that this match is 'guaranteed money' for a promoter as skillful as Warren, and he's actually pursuing short term aims.

I still stand by my point about the relative value of this match compared to football these days, but that may have something to do with the vastly inflated prices charged by football clubs rather than the value of this particular card. If so, I'm not afraid to admit a mistake, and stand corrected.

Fair play fella. Ironically I think our views are actually very similar, just a case of crossed wires
Warren's a superb businessman, and there's no obligation on him to act in an altrustic manner, but you're bang on that the short-termism is what costs the sport overall in the long term. I probably wouldn't feel quite so srongly about the whole affair if it wasn't coming hot on the heels of the dreadful farce that was the Calzaghe-Manfredo card...

Deserter wrote:

Carbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Carbo, I'm genuinely shocked at your reply. allegedly allegedly allegedly allegedly will be making huge sums of money from this fight thanks to the magic recipe of TV revenues and a huge live gate. He could easily have put on a stronger bill and still ensured his margins were huge. The idea that by forking out a bit more his promotion would be struggling to break even (which is the inference of your comment) is just laughable. Instead, he's just taking advantage of the fact that Calzaghe has such strong local support that he could put on virtually anything on the undercard without suffering a drop in revenues.
Simply put, Frank is milking his big cash cow for all he's worth as he's now very close to being put out to pasture. I understand it from a business perspective, but don't for a second endorse it from a fan's perspective.
It's a shocking bill judged by any true boxing fan's criteria and in the context of the ticket pricing... and that's without even going into the fact that unless you've paid big money to be close to ringside your view of the action is going to be err, interesting....

I hear what you're saying, and I think I could perhaps phrase it differently by saying, 'Warren doesn't have a bottomless pit of fighters and he runs a business like any other.'

It is important to note that if more of Warren's real bread winners were stacked into the one show, it wouldn't add many more onto the bill while hacking into the number of higher margin shows he can put on over the next three months. That, of course, is the essense of your argument: he's milking it for all its worth. However, it's also a business, and a business that isn't in the same rude health we saw when he had a juicy 'we'll take owt you give us' contract with Sky; both Calzaghe and Hatton; Scott Harrison; a rising Matt Skelton; and, on a lower scale, pretty much every decent domestic level heavyweight in the country and Alex Arthur in regular action.

However, in the long term, it's typical of the myopic business model pervasive in sport in this country. It's all about maximising profits right now, while little investing is done for the future. Like football teams where prices go up while less and less cash is filtered down to the lower leagues, cometitive domestic matches are increasingly hard to come by in an effort to maximise the money to be had from a particular fighter. How are new fans going to be attracted to the sport, I wonder?

Half of me wants to applaud Warren for making the fight, but, the more I think about it -- thankfully prompted by posts like yours, Deserter -- the more I think that this match is 'guaranteed money' for a promoter as skillful as Warren, and he's actually pursuing short term aims.

I still stand by my point about the relative value of this match compared to football these days, but that may have something to do with the vastly inflated prices charged by football clubs rather than the value of this particular card. If so, I'm not afraid to admit a mistake, and stand corrected.

Fair play fella. Ironically I think our views are actually very similar, just a case of crossed wires
Warren's a superb businessman, and there's no obligation on him to act in an altrustic manner, but you're bang on that the short-termism is what costs the sport overall in the long term. I probably wouldn't feel quite so srongly about the whole affair if it wasn't coming hot on the heels of the dreadful farce that was the Calzaghe-Manfredo card...

Great points from both of you. You would, though, think promoters would try to deliver a quality product to ensure future TV deals, wouldn't you? Short-termism can be very short-sighted and screw it up for everyone.

leforge wrote:where skelton?

Good point, i thought someone was missing. Was Matt not supposed to be going in with big Julius Long?

steve689 wrote:Not sure how this determines the TV schedule (due to start at 8.15) and more quantity than quality, but here it is anyway:

allegedly allegedly In Association with INTERNATIONAL ENTERTAINMENT
Proudly Present
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP BOXING

Saturday 3rd November 2007

RUNNING ORDER

Stadium gates open at 7.30pm

There will be no admittance into the Stadium after 10.30pm

Fight # 1 - 20.15pm
4 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Heavyweight Contest
HARRY MILES V MARK PHILLIPS

Fight # 2
8 X 3 Minute Rounds Super-Middleweight Contest
NATHAN CLEVERLY V JOEY VEGAS

Fight # 3
4 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Heavyweight Contest
TONY BELLEW V ADAM WILCOX

Fight # 4
6 X 3 Minute Rounds Super Featherweight Contest
RICKY BURNS V YOUSEF AL HAMIDI

Fight # 5
6 X 3 Minute Rounds Middleweight Contest
KERRY HOPE V ERNIE SMITH

Fight # 6 - 22.30pm
6 X 3 Minute Rounds International Middleweight Contest
THOMAS POLLSEN V LEE NOBLE

Fight # 7
8 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Welterweight Contest
BARRIE JONES V TBA

Fight # 8
6 X 3 Minute Rounds International Cruiserweight Contest
ANDERS HUGGER V HASTINGS RASANI

Fight # 9 - 24.10pm
THE WBO WORLD CRUISERWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
12 X 3 Minute Rounds at 14st 4lb
ENZO MACCARINELLI V MOHAMED AZZAOUI

Fight # 10
4 X 3 Minute Rounds Light-Welterweight Contest
JAMIE COX V DAVID KIRK

Fight # 11 - 01.25am
THE WBO, WBC AND WBA WORLD SUPER-MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIPS
12 X 3 Minute Rounds at 12st
JOE CALZAGHE V MIKKEL KESSLER

OPPONENTS, FIGHT TIMINGS AND LINE UP ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE

Thanks m8

Anybody know if the back section of the ringside seats are as bad as everyones saying they are? I'm worried about not even being able to see the action, they were 100 quid each.

This bill is an absolute disgrace. Theres only 1 competitive bout out of about 12 and the rest are just glorified sparring sessions. Obviously its hard to complain about the likes of Bellew and Jamie Cox getting easy fights but decent fighters like ex European, commonwealth and British title challenger Ricky Burns is going up against someone with a 2-4-1 record. Its not even a contest. And the majority of knowledgable boxing fans havent even heard of Enzo Mac's opponent.

Warren has had months to get good fighters in and provide the paying fans with an entertaining undercard but once again his greed has spoiled a potentially superb night for British Boxing. Of course if the main event is a great fight it'll all be forgotten and he'll get away with it yet again.

I hate to keep comparing boxing with MMA but one of the main reasons it is currently successful is because the majority of fights are between well matched opponents and that is what people want to see. Real fights, not big names fighting nobodies to pad their records.

I am waiting for the boxing chat post: if you think its that easy etc etc

It is a bit of a disgrace, I do wonder how US TV will fill their time should either of the world championship fights end early. I'm sure US TV will not put up with it, why should UK TV.

Come on Joe

Come on Joe