The Calzaghe-Hopkins - No! Thread

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Nov 2007, 06:23

I really hate the idea of Calzaghe going into this fight. Obviously if it happens and if he wins - which he should - it will be very nice, very lucrative etc.

But stylistically it's horrible. Woods recently said that Joe's been in a # of fights vs guys who just wanted to spoil & survive, that it'd be ugly and that who would want to see it.

Hopkins runs miles per fight these days, has no reflexes, uses his head as much as Evander Holyfield and refuses to trade punches. Also, as Pundit says, who wants to see a guy in the prime of his life beating up a 43 yo?

Joe vs Hopkins is like Pacquiao v Barrera (replace Pac's power with way more rin generalship and focus). Probably the 2nd fight, in which little of note happened. A (non)superfight if ever there was one.

We may all be forgetting that Taylor beat Hopkins twice - once controversially, once very closely and fairly. If Taylor drills Pavlik in the rematch, Taylor's the more exciting & marketable fight.

Pavlik - white puncher who doesn't rub ppl up the wrong way - is even more marketable than Taylor. If he beats Taylor, he's had his first PPV fight and can go into another. No way Pav gets back down to 160 if he KOs Taylor again! He'll want a super middle title (not a light heavy).

Woods holds a light heavy title and I think the whole British pride angle makes it a bruising fight between two world champs. I think Joe's most bruising fight was vs Woodhall and IMO this would be better.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Nov 2007, 06:32

I agree, it would be a hideous spectacle.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Nov 2007, 06:37

I think stick around for Taylor-Pavlik winner. Who'll be gagging for a title shot. If it's getting so tight he has to move up, Woods is the fight.

Hopkins spoiled some guys that HBO put massive money into...Tito, DLH...Why do this?

On the legacy subject, how much credit would Joe get for beating a 43 yo? Nil.

This fight mattered five years ago. Brits don't even recognise the Ring title, so many won't even see him as a two-weight champ in his own country!

Joe's silenced all his doubters, but surely if it's going to be a big fight, the viewers shouldn't have to regret what they're seeing from rd 1 onward...

Dirk Kelly · Post by **Dirk Kelly** » 06 Nov 2007, 06:58

The only reason Joe would consider this and a fight with Roy Jones is for the $$$$$. There is no mileage in these fights and will do more harm for his legacy than good.

Joe will just be giving his critics more amunition to slate him - if he is still desperate to get the respect he deserves then he should wait as Autobarn points out for the winner of Taylor vs. Pavlik or for me give Woods his fight, both get big pay days then fight another LHW champion someone like Dawson and then retire as the linear champ at SMW then LHW.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:10

I like the Pacquiao - Barrera 2 comparison. I'd still prefer to see this fight over Woods, despite the probabilty of Hopkins-Calzaghe turning into a stinker. Not fussed on Woods to be honest, he could fight Glen again and I still wouldn't know who to go for, needs to get a move on.

Hopkins-Calzaghe would sell well as a spectacle at Yankee Stadium with a capacity of over 50k . As the saying goes, better late than never.

Pavlik or Dawson is probably the better fight for us but Calzaghe has said for a long time that he wants to become a two weight champ and I'm not sure the $$$ is there for Dawson.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:22

if Joe-Hopkins can draw 50,000 and do good PPV then probably there's no stopping it. But will there be a condition from 1 side or the other that stops it? I actually hope so! Like Hopkins wanting too much money, or for example would Warren call for the fight to be at 168 to balance things if Hopkins is getting home advantage..?

Bring on the obstacles.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:28

Put me down for a 'No' vote too. Just hard to beat the Kessler fight, in terms of meaning, for me. It's just a shame it took 10 years to seal the division.

In terms of entertainment, I'd personally like him fighting either Woods or Froch, but admittedly neither of these can compete with a Hopkins fight in terms of money or appeal to a US audience. He also needs to move up in weight.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:39

I disagree. Hopkins is still regarded by the Yanks as one of the best P4P fighters around (at least top 5), and the best LHW, so fighting, and beating, Hopkins would give him a great amount of credibiliy over the Atlantic and improve his legacy.

The fight would be turd though.

Pavlik needs another big win before he's considered a great fighter of Hopkins level.

Woods holds a belt, but is still recognised as the number 3, or maybe number 2, LHW behind Dawson and Hopkins.

The yanks will mak excuses saying Hopkins is past it, but they make excuses for any boxer who's not American. That's how they are.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:41

Autobarn wrote:if Joe-Hopkins can draw 50,000 and do good PPV then probably there's no stopping it. But will there be a condition from 1 side or the other that stops it? I actually hope so! Like Hopkins wanting too much money, or for example would Warren call for the fight to be at 168 to balance things if Hopkins is getting home advantage..?

Bring on the obstacles.

I may be jumping the gun here but I read in another thread that Warren has invited the press to make a major announcement? They seemed pretty sure of themselves regarding the Hopkins fight in the HBO post fight interview. Wouldn't be surprised if both camps are already close to agreeing to terms. Hopkins says he's ready in an article on ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=3094912

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:42

lvlarc wrote:
Autobarn wrote:if Joe-Hopkins can draw 50,000 and do good PPV then probably there's no stopping it. But will there be a condition from 1 side or the other that stops it? I actually hope so! Like Hopkins wanting too much money, or for example would Warren call for the fight to be at 168 to balance things if Hopkins is getting home advantage..?

Bring on the obstacles.
I may be jumping the gun here but I read in another thread that Warren has invited the press to make a major announcement? They seemed pretty sure of themselves regarding the Hopkins fight in the HBO post fight interview. Wouldn't be surprised if both camps are already close to agreeing to terms. Hopkins says he's ready in an article on ESPN.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=3094912

...and BBC Sport. In the words of Mills Lane, "Let's get it on!"

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:46

If so, Joe may wish he'd had warm up fights in America. He seems to prepare very well, but in the same place. With Hatton, we saw what happens in a new place, in a different environment, with jet lag, different ppl, different climates, different food, germs etc. And we saw with Hatton (vs Castillo) how to get it right.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:48

Let's hope its sorted and we don't have to wait that long. Don't see why fights need to be announced 6 months in advance as often seems to be the case. March perhaps? Calzaghe has another year he says he shoudl try and have 3 more fights in that time.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 06 Nov 2007, 08:06

lvlarc wrote:I like the Pacquiao - Barrera 2 comparison. I'd still prefer to see this fight over Woods, despite the probabilty of Hopkins-Calzaghe turning into a stinker. Not fussed on Woods to be honest, he could fight Glen again and I still wouldn't know who to go for, needs to get a move on.

Hopkins-Calzaghe would sell well as a spectacle at Yankee Stadium with a capacity of over 50k . As the saying goes, better late than never.

Pavlik or Dawson is probably the better fight for us but Calzaghe has said for a long time that he wants to become a two weight champ and I'm not sure the $$$ is there for Dawson.

hopkins is still a very meaningful fight.

hopkins ain't an ordinary 43 yr old is he.

plus the payday for joe would be bigger than against pavlik and particularly dawson.

woods is a solid world top tenner and deserves credit for what he's doing in his career.

but from a legacy standpoint it don't come close to beating bernard hopkins does it.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 06 Nov 2007, 08:23

I'm in agreement, I don't want to see JC fight Hopkins.

It would be a terrible fight.

Hopkins is so boring to watch these days & Joe has stopped sitting on his punches, so it will just be a slap & runfest!!!

What does Joe have to gain by beating a 43 year old middleweight?

Admitttedly, Hopkins is not your average 43 year old & is probably one of the top 3 best ever 40+ fighters, but such a fight would be complete waste of time for JC.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Nov 2007, 08:58

I'm with everyone on this, but I think it's as inevitable as death and taxes.

I'd rather he fought Clinton, but understand that economically it's not as big.

If as Hopkins says, they could fillo Yankie Stadium (could they though), then there's a lot of money out there for this fight.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 06 Nov 2007, 09:04

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'm with everyone on this, but I think it's as inevitable as death and taxes.

I'd rather he fought Clinton, but understand that economically it's not as big.

If as Hopkins says, they could fillo Yankie Stadium (could they though), then there's a lot of money out there for this fight.

Would you go to see it James?

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 06 Nov 2007, 09:05

Maybe a tune up fight against Tarver to acclimatise to the US would be a good option. Thoughts?

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 06 Nov 2007, 09:40

I agree it will likely be a borefest but I'd love to see Joe comprehensively beating Hopkins. It's the one that will add to his legacy and is therefore the one that should be made, although for entertainment value I would love to see him in with Froch.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 06 Nov 2007, 09:57

I agree with both sides. There is too much money in this for it not to happen and as has been pointed out Hopkins is the man at 175 and in most peoples top 5 P4P.
I think Dougie Fischer wrote that if Calzaghe beat Hopkins before Pacquaio fights Marquez then he'd put him at number 1 on longevity and being 2 weight undisputed.

Hopkins will run for most of each round, occasionally throwing an over hand right, followed by a head, followed by a clinch but he would most probably lose and be Joe's biggest scalp and biggest payday. So...

If the Hopkins negotiations drag on i'd like Calzaghe v Woods for a belt then Hopkins for a unification.

I can't see Bob Arum putting Pavlik, who's just on the cusp of becoming a crossover star, with Calzaghe who will be retired in a year. He's going to be the biggest money maker he has without an accompanying Goldenboy profit sharing scheme.

There's plenty of other Super Middles he could be thrown in with in the meantime. Froch would be a good start, no?

Flav1 · Post by **Flav1** » 06 Nov 2007, 09:59

I'm not sure Joe cares much about respect. I think he'd take Hopkins because of the money it will make him. There's nothing to deny Calzaghe of his credentials now and simpy wants to set himself up for life.

You're right about a 43 yr-old getting beaten up for 12 rounds by a fighter in his prime - it's a shame Hopkins backed out all those years ago, but if he hadn't Joe probably wouldn't have had an unblemished record.

I'd take the winner from Pvlik/Taylor

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Nov 2007, 10:21

Had this been straight after the Tarver fight, then I would have been shouting at the rooftops to see this one. However, Tarver has looked awful against a significantly lesser fighter since too and Hopkins was looking his age vs Winky Wright IMO.

There has been NO mention of Chad Dawson yet.... He's the Mikkel Kessler equivalent at Light Heavy - The Heir apparant. How many people would favour Hopkins over Dawson.... Not me, not now anyway.

So I would love it if it was Dawson vs Joe.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 06 Nov 2007, 10:27

The Ring title is irrelevent. Hopkins is The Man becausehe beat The Man, regardless of alphabet strippins & machinations.

How exactly did 0-2-1 Woods end up IBF champ whilst Tarver and Johnson were rightly battling it out for Undisputed title?

Like it or lump it, Calzaghe v B-Hop will be an NYC SPECTACLE and huge news in this country, and JC will be AUTHENTIC LIGHT-HEAVY CHAMP.

Razor · Post by **Razor** » 06 Nov 2007, 10:35

If Joe beats him all the Americans say is he beat a 43 year old, shot Hopkins. I agree fight someone like Taylor, Abraham even

jimcook · Post by **jimcook** » 06 Nov 2007, 10:38

id rather see carl froch against hopkins! i know calzaghe can make tons of money and cement his legacy etc,and good luck to him..he deserves it,but..this fight has zero relevance...hopkins is well past his best.this is not a fight for boxing fans...its a cynical moneymaking excercise and nothing more. and in all probability would be boring. theres a good argument for creating a seniors boxing tour..round up your toneys,delahoyas,hopkins,mcullochs,barrerras etc and put them on the merrygoround...but keep them away from real boxing,unless they are gonna fight the young up and cummers..otherwise theyre not contributing to boxing,just bleeding it dry for their extended testimonials

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Nov 2007, 10:47

I wouldn't mind Hopkins vs Joe - aslong as that wasn't his Joe's final fight. He would have to finish off by fighting Dawson. Forget Woods, he's lost too many times to ever be considered the Heir apparent. Dawson is the one that most people predict will reign for a long time after the Hopkins/Calzaghe generation is finished with.