Frankie Gavin is a fraud and....

[oliverfennell]

... he'll get knocked out by the first decent boxer he fights.


I just wanted to be the first person to say that.

No, I don't actually believe it, and I'm behind him all the way to Beijing and beyond, but it is INEVITABLE when he turns pro, you'll start hearing the above. You know it's true.

Meanwhile, I supported Audley and Amir from day one, and I will support Frankie. I just know in a couple of years he'll be a prime candidate for the haters.

[Old bones Ian]

Shame for Frankie that his win coincided with the Calzaghe v Kessler fight, as he didn't get much press for his Gold medal win.

On the back of it though, hope the BBC will show the upcoming UK v USA show

[oliverfennell]

Shame for Frankie that his win coincided with the Calzaghe v Kessler fight, as he didn't get much press for his Gold medal win.

On the back of it though, hope the BBC will show the upcoming UK v USA show

I dunno, I think he got more press than he otherwise would have, because the paper pulled it into a boxing "package" on the Monday. Without the Calzaghe fight, Frankie probably would have been buried somewhere in "sport in brief" sections.

[E]

... he'll get knocked out by the first decent boxer he fights.


I just wanted to be the first person to say that.

No, I don't actually believe it, and I'm behind him all the way to Beijing and beyond, but it is INEVITABLE when he turns pro, you'll start hearing the above. You know it's true.

Meanwhile, I supported Audley and Amir from day one, and I will support Frankie. I just know in a couple of years he'll be a prime candidate for the haters.

With all respect Oliver, you do try and spend too much time being 'controversial' (ref - bizarre choices of most underrated / overrated choices.)

It reeks of tabloid-style journalism and you're better than that.

Anyway I don't think the GAvin case is comparable to Amir Khan. THere are plenty of other successful up and coming fighters that were hyped but not slaughtered (Hamed, Benn, Hatton etc.)

Whilst every fighter inevitably gets criticism, and someone somewhere will always declare them a fraud - Khan gets the treatment because the press have been talking him up like he will be one of the best ever and knowledgeable fans know better.

Also he has shown signs of chinniness - ie Watson almost KOing him in the amateurs, almost getting Ko'd by WIllie Limond who is a good boxer with due respect couldn't crack an egg...

The knowledgeable fan is sick of getting sold a pig in a poke as happened with Audley.

Gavin is a different proposition - I have seen the ENgland squad in training close up and Gavin has exceptional natural talent, balance and timing. He stood out head and shoulders above the rest.

How he is treated by the fans depends on how he is managed and how he interviews. (Please may allegedly FW not sign him...)

[states]

Shame for Frankie that his win coincided with the Calzaghe v Kessler fight, as he didn't get much press for his Gold medal win.

On the back of it though, hope the BBC will show the upcoming UK v USA show

They are showing it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/6339657.stm

In fairness, I believe they had it pencilled in even before the success at the World's.

[stujones]

Has Frankie Gavin been put down in his career yet - it was only after Khan vs Watson did some doubts come about Amir.

If Gavin gets hurt or put down, then yes - undoubtedly there will be some judgemental critics, and I'll probably be one of them.

[oliverfennell]

... he'll get knocked out by the first decent boxer he fights.


I just wanted to be the first person to say that.

No, I don't actually believe it, and I'm behind him all the way to Beijing and beyond, but it is INEVITABLE when he turns pro, you'll start hearing the above. You know it's true.

Meanwhile, I supported Audley and Amir from day one, and I will support Frankie. I just know in a couple of years he'll be a prime candidate for the haters.

With all respect Oliver, you do try and spend too much time being 'controversial' (ref - bizarre choices of most underrated / overrated choices.)

It reeks of tabloid-style journalism and you're better than that.

Anyway I don't think the GAvin case is comparable to Amir Khan. THere are plenty of other successful up and coming fighters that were hyped but not slaughtered (Hamed, Benn, Hatton etc.)

Whilst every fighter inevitably gets criticism, and someone somewhere will always declare them a fraud - Khan gets the treatment because the press have been talking him up like he will be one of the best ever and knowledgeable fans know better.

Also he has shown signs of chinniness - ie Watson almost KOing him in the amateurs, almost getting Ko'd by WIllie Limond who is a good boxer with due respect couldn't crack an egg...

The knowledgeable fan is sick of getting sold a pig in a poke as happened with Audley.

Gavin is a different proposition - I have seen the ENgland squad in training close up and Gavin has exceptional natural talent, balance and timing. He stood out head and shoulders above the rest.

How he is treated by the fans depends on how he is managed and how he interviews. (Please may allegedly FW not sign him...)

I'll admit I thought "Frankie Gavin is a fraud" would get some attention, but hey, since you mention it, I do actually work in tabloid newspapers.

My main point, though, is as you have seen - I'm predicting there will come a time when the fans backlash against him.

You are accurate in your critiques of Audley and Amir, but there was a time when neither man could do any wrong. Gavin is that man at the moment. The snipers started emerging almost the minute they turned pro. I'm sure it will be the same with Frankie when he goes through his "learning fights" early pro stage.

And of course you are also right to say there are many good amateurs who get hyped but not slaughtered, but I compared Gavin with Khan and Harrison because they're all (or will be) high-profile Olympians.

[oliverfennell]

PS I missed the compliment first time around "Reeks of tabloid journalism - and you're better than that".

Thanks. Do I know you by any other name than "E"?

[locoxelbox]

Has Frankie Gavin been put down in his career yet - it was only after Khan vs Watson did some doubts come about Amir.

Mario Kindelan almost put him down with a right hand giving him a standing eight. Anyway that's not alarming at all. I'm sure Gavin can do well in the pro ranks as well, he's a good boxer.

[E]

PS I missed the compliment first time around "Reeks of tabloid journalism - and you're better than that".

Thanks. Do I know you by any other name than "E"?

No mate! But I have read your articles and posting on boxrec and they're well written.

So much of boxing writing is awful at the moment - Boxing news haven't had a decent writer since HArry Mullan died and MArk Butcher was let go. (ALthough underused Daniel Herbert is quite good, and Claude is OK but not good enough. HE is good on TV though.)

I would like to give the awful zachary levin a slap - maybe knock his 'trademark' wooly cap off his head. He seems to write more about himself and his opinions than the boxers. JUst awful.

Maybe they could employ you?

PS which tabloid do you write for? I actually read all major newpapers and actually find EG the SUn can be surprisingly witty at times...

[oliverfennell]

PS I missed the compliment first time around "Reeks of tabloid journalism - and you're better than that".

Thanks. Do I know you by any other name than "E"?

No mate! But I have read your articles and posting on boxrec and they're well written.

So much of boxing writing is awful at the moment - Boxing news haven't had a decent writer since HArry Mullan died and MArk Butcher was let go. (ALthough underused Daniel Herbert is quite good, and Claude is OK but not good enough. HE is good on TV though.)

I would like to give the awful zachary levin a slap - maybe knock his 'trademark' wooly cap off his head. He seems to write more about himself and his opinions than the boxers. JUst awful.

Maybe they could employ you?

PS which tabloid do you write for? I actually read all major newpapers and actually find EG the SUn can be surprisingly witty at times...

My day job is sub-editing a weekly in South East London but I write boxing freelance for the Daily Post in Wales. Sub-editing creates the end product you see on the shelf - the design, headlines, captions, individual story editing etc (basically putting the package together) - so that is why I know "Frankie Gavin is a fraud..." is a better "headline" than "What will fans think of Frankie Gavin in 2009?".

I did apply for the job at BN that Tris Dixon got. Fair enough; he's a good choice. Incidentally, I had a few features published in BN between 2000 and 2002 but after that I concentrated on my own website (now closed) and editorial work I was doing for A-Force Promotions.

You mention The Sun as being witty, and of course it is. Tabloids do take the sensational approach, but that is what they're good at. They know their audience and they know what sells. Within the newspaper industry, The Sun is just as respected as The Times, for they are both the best examples of their style.

Zachary Levin seems to divide opinion. I like his style, as it has a bit more flair than usual straight-laced reports, but can appreciate he's not everybody's cup of tea.

[Coco]

So much of boxing writing is awful at the moment - Boxing news haven't had a decent writer since HArry Mullan died and MArk Butcher was let go. (ALthough underused Daniel Herbert is quite good, and Claude is OK but not good enough. HE is good on TV though.).

Bob Mee writes regularly for the Boxing News??

[E]

So much of boxing writing is awful at the moment - Boxing news haven't had a decent writer since HArry Mullan died and MArk Butcher was let go. (ALthough underused Daniel Herbert is quite good, and Claude is OK but not good enough. HE is good on TV though.).

Bob Mee writes regularly for the Boxing News??

True forgot him - he's decent. THat new US guy is also awful (can't remember his name) he's got a double barrelled arabic name or something...black dude.

I am not convinced by Tris Dixon either. He's distinctly average.

[oliverfennell]

So much of boxing writing is awful at the moment - Boxing news haven't had a decent writer since HArry Mullan died and MArk Butcher was let go. (ALthough underused Daniel Herbert is quite good, and Claude is OK but not good enough. HE is good on TV though.).

Bob Mee writes regularly for the Boxing News??

True forgot him - he's decent. THat new US guy is also awful (can't remember his name) he's got a double barrelled arabic name or something...black dude.

I am not convinced by Tris Dixon either. He's distinctly average.

Kenneth Sam-Bouharie.

I think all the BN writers are good except Jack "I looked at my notes and they said RH hit JLC with an L to the B" Obermayer, although the reports often lack flair (which is why I like Levin). They're pretty straight-forward. But I guess many readers prefer reports to be straight-forward. I prefer the previews and news sections, and the features are almost always good.

The reason I said Dixon was a good choice is because, while he's not the most vibrant in the world, he certainly knows his stuff, and what got him the job was his spell of backpacking across America to track down and interview retired boxers. That's an impressive show of passion for and dedication to the craft.

[E]

My day job is sub-editing a weekly in South East London but I write boxing freelance for the Daily Post in Wales. Sub-editing creates the end product you see on the shelf - the design, headlines, captions, individual story editing etc (basically putting the package together) - so that is why I know "Frankie Gavin is a fraud..." is a better "headline" than "What will fans think of Frankie Gavin in 2009?".

I did apply for the job at BN that Tris Dixon got. Fair enough; he's a good choice. Incidentally, I had a few features published in BN between 2000 and 2002 but after that I concentrated on my own website (now closed) and editorial work I was doing for A-Force Promotions.

You mention The Sun as being witty, and of course it is. Tabloids do take the sensational approach, but that is what they're good at. They know their audience and they know what sells. Within the newspaper industry, The Sun is just as respected as The Times, for they are both the best examples of their style.

Zachary Levin seems to divide opinion. I like his style, as it has a bit more flair than usual straight-laced reports, but can appreciate he's not everybody's cup of tea.

You're right about the headline being more eye catching - though in some ways it's misleading with regards to the content of the article itself.

I am not into licking arses, and am not doing so when I say this, but I believe you write far better than Tris Dixon. I find his writing a little disjointed and unstructured, and he does tend to weave into americanisms and slang - which in my opinion is unprofessional for a respected UK journal.

I kind of liked the stuff he did when he was touring the states, not because he wrote well but because he choose interesting interviewees.

I don't enjoy slagging individuals on forums, as I know it can be hurtful, but I am not doing so spitefully just expressing my opinion.

BUT I would still like to slap off Levin's wooly hat and tell him to stop writing about himself, stop using lame metaphors and stop trying to be funny! Take your writing more seriously!

Anyway, good luck OLiver and keep writing.

As Steve Bunce says, adios!

[oliverfennell]

I don't consider it arse-licking, because you have had your criticisms elsewhere (which I can take!), so therefore when you say something positive, it's more sincere.

Agreed Levin is trying to look 'gritty' in his byline pic. A bit like when Bunce was tracking down Kirkland Laing in the 'hood', complete with beanie hat and a can of Stella!

How about Jerry Hjelter's byline pic - big chunky phone glued to the ear, 70s journo classic!

[KO Artist]

... he'll get knocked out by the first decent boxer he fights.


I just wanted to be the first person to say that.

No, I don't actually believe it, and I'm behind him all the way to Beijing and beyond, but it is INEVITABLE when he turns pro, you'll start hearing the above. You know it's true.

Meanwhile, I supported Audley and Amir from day one, and I will support Frankie. I just know in a couple of years he'll be a prime candidate for the haters.

,dffggf

[KO Artist]

bump

[oliverfennell]

bump

Why did you edit "Audley was a fraud from day one" to "dffggf" and then bump it?

[harrygreb]

the thing is, ollie, i have never read a thing of yours outside of this website so i can only go by the not-so-wonderful stuff you have left on here.
but thanks for explaining why your articles are the way they are.
no offense and i'm not being snotty but i dont read tabloid newspapers.

[SticknMove]

Quite right harrygreb. I really do not know much about any boxing writer or their relative merits or demerits. I don't follow the sport along those lines. The event and the actual fight itself is the thing that keeps me interested, not what some articulate writer has to say about it - even though they may have a spot on take. Boxing writing, or journalism in general, is about egos anyway - which in all honesty reflects working life in general. So no offense to the guys that do it for a living or as a hobby.

As for Gavin, his career will play out regardless of what is written about him - good or bad. The same has happened to big Aud and Khan. I hope that people around him convey and make him understand the pitfalls of having a high profile in this sport and the demands that boxing writers and fans expect of him and do not pander to them. They will come around when/if he produces when it matters - and this is what this sport should all about.

[tonyevs]

[quote="oliverfennell

Meanwhile, I supported Audley and Amir from day one, and I will support Frankie. I just know in a couple of years he'll be a prime candidate for the haters.[/quote]

So you admit to knowing little of proffesional boxing ...and your point is?

Audley amounted to very little...(thats being polite )
The jury is still very much out on Amir...(he is still been very carefully guided away from the punchers )

And Frankie Gavin is still very firmly in the amateurs

If hype is your type then you stick to it

[Asterix]

Tony, Oliver was just saying that he supports our homegrown boxers. How does that mean he knows little about boxing?

[rasputin]

... he'll get knocked out by the first decent boxer he fights.


I just wanted to be the first person to say that.

No, I don't actually believe it, and I'm behind him all the way to Beijing and beyond, but it is INEVITABLE when he turns pro, you'll start hearing the above. You know it's true.

Meanwhile, I supported Audley and Amir from day one, and I will support Frankie. I just know in a couple of years he'll be a prime candidate for the haters.

Why mention it now? If it does happen let it happen in its own
time and let frankie bathe in the glory he deserves

[whiskey]

I prefer 'reporting' to 'writing' as usually the latter has a bias one way or the other....

Say Welsh over English...

Or UK or American...

Their favourite over their least favourite..

But nonetheless they are interesting too, but can sway people's own opinions on a subject in a kind of 'hard sell' way. That what they write is 'fact'... and not just an opinion.

The biography approach is the one i prefer, where we discover facts about a favourite boxer otherwise we wouldn't have known before. Or we learn details of their upbringing and what made them into who they are.