Frazier-Doug Jones '67 fight.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 20 Dec 2007, 20:46

Has anybody ever seen a video of this fight?

Granberry, were you at the fight?

I never have seen a film of that fight, but always wanted to. According to an SI article back in '67 I recall reading, it was a devastating knockout. Left hook, I presume.

That fight, and the Chuvalo devastation at MSQ a few months later, is what really brought Joe to the forefront of the professional scene.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 20 Dec 2007, 23:24

A young Frazier fighting Doug Jones was of interest as a way to judge Frazier because Jones, although a natural light heavyweight, had a clear track record as a heavyweight, beating Ali two fights before Ali fought Liston, and knocking out Zora Folley with a single punch.

Jones moved up to above light heavy once he ran into Harold Johnson and lost in his chance at the 175 lb title.
But then he did well as a fat small "heavyweight."
He weighed an overweight 188 when he fought Ali.

Jones had the boxing skills of a fighter smaller than heavyweight and a great chin.

Heavyweights couldn't hurt him seriously in most cases.
He lost badly to Eddie Machen, an excellent boxer and many pounds heavier than Jones in bone structure. Machen hit Jones a lot and Jones, while he lost, showed a great chin.

Interesting that Harold Johnson beat Machen when Machen was in his prime and a full 20 pounds heavier than Johnson in bone structure.

By the time Jones fought Frazier he was old and definitely on the downgrade.

Jones' comments after he lost by KO to young Frazier were that he coinsidered Frazier far more advanced than the Ali he (Jones) had fought earlier.

Machen also had praise for Frazier. Machen fought Frazier while in the downhill of his career just as Jones did. At one point Machen came close to knocking Frazier down with a punch while backed onto the ropes. Otherwise it was all Frazier, who won by a stoppage.

Machen's comment on Frazier after that fight was, he doesn't have much defense, but with that offense, maybe he doesn't need it.

It is interesting that while Durham had Frazier fight Chuvalo, Jones, and Machen as he was coming up, they were not interested in fighting Liston.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 20 Dec 2007, 23:31

I have heard conflicting reports but some indicate Liston had a mild interest in meeting Frazier late in the decade.

If that had happened, I think I would lean toward the busier, fresher Frazier. However Liston's reach & power might make it a dangerous affair.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 20 Dec 2007, 23:59

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I have heard conflicting reports but some indicate Liston had a mild interest in meeting Frazier late in the decade.

If that had happened, I think I would lean toward the busier, fresher Frazier. However Liston's reach & power might make it a dangerous affair.

None of the rated fighters wanted to fight Liston after he did not hold the title.

There was everything to lose if Liston, who was actually an excellent boxer and still retained some of his punch, was fighting for real.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 21 Dec 2007, 00:07

granberry wrote:
Goodnight, Irene wrote:I have heard conflicting reports but some indicate Liston had a mild interest in meeting Frazier late in the decade.

If that had happened, I think I would lean toward the busier, fresher Frazier. However Liston's reach & power might make it a dangerous affair.
None of the rated fighters wanted to fight Liston after he did not hold the title.

There was everything to lose if Liston, who was actually an excellent boxer and still retained some of his punch, was fighting for real.

I wonder if Liston ever had any chance of getting in that 8 man elimination tournament that was held in '67-'68.

Maybe too much stench from Lewiston, huh?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 21 Dec 2007, 00:51

yancey wrote:
granberry wrote:
Goodnight, Irene wrote:I have heard conflicting reports but some indicate Liston had a mild interest in meeting Frazier late in the decade.

If that had happened, I think I would lean toward the busier, fresher Frazier. However Liston's reach & power might make it a dangerous affair.
None of the rated fighters wanted to fight Liston after he did not hold the title.

There was everything to lose if Liston, who was actually an excellent boxer and still retained some of his punch, was fighting for real.
I wonder if Liston ever had any chance of getting in that 8 man elimination tournament that was held in '67-'68.

Maybe too much stench from Lewiston, huh?

No one wanted any part of him.

It is interesting to see what an excellent boxer he was, as films of his fights after his fakes with Ali show.

He was losing his punch to some degree but handed continuous beatings to those he fought.

NOTICE--Joe Frazier could not stop George Scrap Iron Johnson, but an old Liston did.

Woller · Post by **Woller** » 21 Dec 2007, 02:46

As I have heard the story the fight between Frazier and Doug Jones should have been on TV, but is was scrubbed shortly before the fight. (A question of money I believe). The fight was filmed, but never aired. Maybe it will turn up suddenly like Doug Jones - Zora Folley 2nd. I am still waiting for it to turn up, I still have a cutting from "Boxing Illustrated" about this fight.

Woller

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 22 Dec 2007, 03:10

It is ashame that alot of the earlier Frazier fights are hard to find. I have a few from 66, 67 and 68 and then all thereafter.

Doug Jones and him would be a fun and interesting fight to watch.

In regards to Liston in that period. I think after the Ali rematch Liston lost alot of credibility, the whole fight looked so bad and for whatever reason, no one wants to come out and say 'it was fake' instead the general consensus is that the "anchor punch" was perfect on that night.

If it was a fake, Liston's stock is tarnished. If he did get KO'd by one shot from Ali then his chin, which prior was always so durable, makes him seem shot.

From 66 up to the Martin fight in '69 he fought alot of upper guys, but no one great. He stayed active that is for certain and did what he needed to do against the guys he was fighting. Up to the end Liston was a tough and dangerous foe.

I would love to have seen Liston from then face a Ernie Terrel, Buster Mathis, Jerry Quarry or an Oscar Bonavena. Some one that would have given him a spring board to gain momentum for a title shot, even amongst the WBA mess of the time.

Kym

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Dec 2007, 10:31

Kym,

You don't get it.

NO ONE who was rated would fight Liston.

They had everything to lose if Liston fought legitimately.

At the time of the fake Lewiston "fight,"

the following said it was an obvious FAKE-----

Floyd Patterson

George Chuvalo

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Joe Louis

Jimmy Cannon

etc etc etc.

Today the poster of that fake fight and the poster of leftwing "hero" Che Guevarra are tops among the clueless masses.

The connection between the Religion Of Ali and leftwing agenda is clear.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 22 Dec 2007, 11:52

granberry wrote: the poster of leftwing "hero" Che Guevarra .

Would you find it surprising that Che's family is fighting for their rights to market his image?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0829-01.htm

How ordinarily bourgeois is that?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Dec 2007, 18:42

Broncano wrote:
granberry wrote: the poster of leftwing "hero" Che Guevarra .
Would you find it surprising that Che's family is fighting for their rights to market his image?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0829-01.htm

How ordinarily bourgeois is that?

Thank you for that, Broncano.

I can hardly type because I am laughing so hard.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 22 Dec 2007, 19:33

granberry wrote:Kym,

You don't get it.

NO ONE who was rated would fight Liston.

They had everything to lose if Liston fought legitimately.

At the time of the fake Lewiston "fight,"

the following said it was an obvious FAKE-----

Floyd Patterson

George Chuvalo

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Joe Louis

Jimmy Cannon

etc etc etc.

Today the poster of that fake fight and the poster of leftwing "hero" Che Guevarra are tops among the clueless masses.

The connection between the Religion Of Ali and leftwing agenda is clear.

Jimmy Cannon was ringside at Lewiston and actually saw the "anchor" punch.

His verdict?

The "anchor" punch "couldn't have crushed a grape."

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Dec 2007, 19:47

George Chuvalo was present (in the 3rd or 4th row) at Lewiston.

His verdict?

"It was a phony."

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 22 Dec 2007, 21:07

I was trying to post diplomatically.

Perhaps this is the reason why no top guys wanted a bar
of Liston.

They and there management wanted nothing to do with the
loser in a 'work'.

left wing agenda :) indeed.

Kym

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 22 Dec 2007, 22:57

Robinson wrote:I was trying to post diplomatically.

Perhaps this is the reason why no top guys wanted a bar
of Liston.

They and there management wanted nothing to do with the
loser in a 'work'.

left wing agenda :) indeed.

Kym

Perhaps it was the Ali industry at work again. They were probably terrified that Liston would destroy Ali if he ever got another title shot given how competitive he'd been in the two fights they'd had.