Lennox Lewis... All Time Rating.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 24 Dec 2007, 09:41

As it's been over 4 years since his retirement now...

I'm curious where the fellows of the British Board place Lennox Lewis on their all time heavyweight ranking?

Sammy Mendelson · Post by **Sammy Mendelson** » 24 Dec 2007, 11:43

Fourth for me, with one and two being interchangeable depending what mood I'm in and who I have watched most recently.

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Holmes
4. Lewis

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 24 Dec 2007, 11:54

Looking back over Lewis's career he had some tremendous wins and was the most dominant heavyweight for a good few years. Career wise and achievements I would rate him in the top 5 however as the best fighter and who he would have beaten in prime match ups i would have to drop him out of the top 5 maybe around 7 or 8.

I always felt Lewis lacked a little consistency and motivation to be in the top 2 or 3 of all time - for every 2 great lewis performances there was a poor one.

Sammy Mendelson · Post by **Sammy Mendelson** » 24 Dec 2007, 12:03

I'd love to know the lists of the gents who have voted for Lennox in the 11-15 option. Get real.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 24 Dec 2007, 12:57

I have him in at around 3-5 ... Ali for me is the very very clear No1 boxer of all time.

Tunney · Post by **Tunney** » 24 Dec 2007, 13:06

His vulnerable chin keeps him out ot the top 20 IMO. I rate him somewhers between 16 and 25. He has size, strength and tremendous reach, but lacked great skill. His biggest career wins were against much smaller men like Holyfield...

Great fighters like Foreman and Marciano didn't get knocked out by "B" class fighters like Rahman and McCall.

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 24 Dec 2007, 13:19

Tunney wrote:His vulnerable chin keeps him out ot the top 20 IMO. I rate him somewhers between 16 and 25. He has size, strength and tremendous reach, but lacked great skill. His biggest career wins were against much smaller men like Holyfield...

Great fighters like Foreman and Marciano didn't get knocked out by "B" class fighters like Rahman and McCall.

I see this arguement everytime, and its complelty lacking intelligence.

Vulnerable chin? He has been knocked out twice by shots that would put most boxers on there arse for the count, yet big dangerous punchers like Tua and Tyson never managed to land or even stun Lewis.
And if his chin is indeed weak, why didnt Rahman or McCall knock Lewis out in there rematchs? Why? I will tell you, because Lewis was more focused and prepared at the end of the day, so if you wish to rank Lewis on one to one abilities on his night, you cant say he would get hit by those big shots, as he had great evasiveness and you aint knocking out Lennox Lewis when he is focused on his night.

If you want to rank him on achievments look at the quality of competition, he fought everyone that would fight him, he unified the belts, he beat 2 all time greats, and BEAT EVERYONE HE FACED just like the man Maricano you mentioned.

Being so big and heavy is not always an advantage unless you actually have ability and skill behind you, otherwise Julius Long would be champion! At the end of the day where talking about the Heavyweight division, there all big guys!

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 24 Dec 2007, 13:36

For the record my list varies all the time but here it is...

Ali
Louis
Lewis
Holmes
Foreman

3 to 5 often swap places with one another, depending on my mood

Tunney · Post by **Tunney** » 24 Dec 2007, 13:37

Boxing.Gloves wrote: big dangerous punchers Tua and Tyson never managed to land or even stun Lewis.

Tyson is a little guy when he stands next to Lewis. Tua's reach is less than Floyd Mayweather's - Lewis has 12'' greater reach! Is that an advantage?

Manny taught Lewis how to keep smaller opponents who punch hard like Tyson and Tua off him. Like Valuev, but unlike Long, Lewis learned how to use his size to his advantage.

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 24 Dec 2007, 13:52

Tunney wrote:
Boxing.Gloves wrote: big dangerous punchers Tua and Tyson never managed to land or even stun Lewis.
Tyson is a little guy when he stands next to Lewis. Tua's reach is less than Floyd Mayweather's - Lewis has 12'' greater reach! Is that an advantage?

Manny taught Lewis how to keep smaller opponents who punch hard like Tyson and Tua off him. Like Valuev, but unlike Long, Lewis learned how to use his size to his advantage.

I think you know i wasnt reffering to Tyson or Tua as big in height, but in measurement of there power.

Lewis was taught to keep all opponents off him, which he demonstrated when he was focused.

And are you seriously comparing Lewis to Valuev?

Tunney · Post by **Tunney** » 24 Dec 2007, 13:58

Boxing.Gloves wrote:
Tunney wrote:
Boxing.Gloves wrote: big dangerous punchers Tua and Tyson never managed to land or even stun Lewis.
Tyson is a little guy when he stands next to Lewis. Tua's reach is less than Floyd Mayweather's - Lewis has 12'' greater reach! Is that an advantage?

Manny taught Lewis how to keep smaller opponents who punch hard like Tyson and Tua off him. Like Valuev, but unlike Long, Lewis learned how to use his size to his advantage.
I think you know i wasnt reffering to Tyson or Tua as big in height, but in measurement of there power.

Lewis was taught to keep all opponents off him, which he demonstrated when he was focused.

And are you seriously comparing Lewis to Valuev?

Valuev vs. Lewis would be interesting - Lewis never fought anyone who wasn't smaller than himself!

:) Valuev doesn't have a glass chin like Lewis though - he's fought a lot of "B" and "C" level heavyweights but none have ever knocked him down.

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 24 Dec 2007, 14:46

Lewis? Top 5? Are you guys crazy?

A fringe top 10er. Probably 9-12.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 24 Dec 2007, 14:57

Tunney wrote:His vulnerable chin keeps him out ot the top 20 IMO. I rate him somewhers between 16 and 25. He has size, strength and tremendous reach, but lacked great skill. His biggest career wins were against much smaller men like Holyfield...

Great fighters like Foreman and Marciano didn't get knocked out by "B" class fighters like Rahman and McCall.

You're way off the mark there, Tunney. Lennox belongs in the top 5, certainly no lower than 7-8. He actually had a very decent chin. No-one can remain upright in fights with Tua, Tyson, Holyfield, V. Klitschko etc. and not have a good chin. The two times he went down in 40+ fights were from hellacious shots. It's usually possible to manipulate stats and distort facts to present a plausible argument in boxing, but I defy anyone to present a convincing case as to why LL is not a top 20 heavyweight, as you claim.

Sammy Mendelson · Post by **Sammy Mendelson** » 24 Dec 2007, 15:06

I think Tunney is on a wind up. He doesn't for one minute think Lennox is not in the all time Top 20. I'd wager that he rates him Top eight or better. I would also guarantee that if Lennox had retained the maple leaf on his shorts, Tunney would have him in the Top three.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 24 Dec 2007, 15:09

Sammy Mendelson wrote:I think Tunney is on a wind up. He doesn't for one minute think Lennox is not in the all time Top 20. I'd wager that he rates him Top eight or better. I would also guarantee that if Lennox had retained the maple leaf on his shorts, Tunney would have him in the Top three.

Good point, Sammy!

BAMBI · Post by **BAMBI** » 24 Dec 2007, 15:56

7-10

lol @ espn and burt sugar rating him like 18...so harsh!

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:06

This is what I f*cking hate about these forums - you have an opinion an how you rate a fighter - you get mocked for it - even more spineless is relying on other posters to feebly back up your OPINION and that is all it is - especially when you compare fighters from a different era.

I seriously do rate Lewis top 5 - in addition I rate Mayweather as one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:22

Lewis fourth for me:

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Foreman

Can't see how anyone can have any other fighter, than Ali, as first.

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:40

Interested to see Foreman rated above Holmes in most of peoples top 5 not sure if it's rated on achievements and career or who would win against each other.

Couldn't see Holmes beating a prime dangerous Foreman dont think too many would, only chance would be to keep Foreman at bay with his outstanding jab but think Foreman would have caught him at some stage.

Agree on career achievements Holmes would probably get the nod ahead though.

How do you guys think a prime Foreman would have done against a prime Tyson or Lewis. Would pay to see these two fights especially Foreman v Lewis

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:43

Spud wrote:This is what I f*cking hate about these forums - you have an opinion an how you rate a fighter - you get mocked for it - even more spineless is relying on other posters to feebly back up your OPINION and that is all it is - especially when you compare fighters from a different era.

I seriously do rate Lewis top 5 - in addition I rate Mayweather as one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Who's mocking? Its a boxing forum, theres people debating and questioning each others opinions, but nobody is getting mocked,
and nobody is relying on anyone from the posts ive read so far.

By the way, I agree with you on Mayweather, i believe too many people
refuse to allow modern boxers into their all time list and they cant justify it.

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:46

Boxing.Gloves wrote:
Spud wrote:This is what I f*cking hate about these forums - you have an opinion an how you rate a fighter - you get mocked for it - even more spineless is relying on other posters to feebly back up your OPINION and that is all it is - especially when you compare fighters from a different era.

I seriously do rate Lewis top 5 - in addition I rate Mayweather as one of the greatest fighters of all time.
Who's mocking? Its a boxing forum, theres people debating and questioning each others opinions, but nobody is getting mocked,
and nobody is relying on anyone from the posts ive read so far.

By the way, I agree with you on Mayweather, i believe too many people
refuse to allow modern boxers into their all time list and they cant justify it.

I think Foreman would have beat Tyson similar to how he beat Frazier but maybe not as brutal, and with Lewis he wouldnt be able to bully or intimidate like he could do in his era, so i think Lewis would have a good chance.

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:51

Probably agree m8 with Tyson v Foreman think the height difference would have been too much for Tyson but a prime Tyson would have to be watched like a hawk as he was dangerous as fornicate

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 24 Dec 2007, 16:59

Between four and six for me. My top three is always 1. Ali 2. Louis 3. Foreman.

Sammy Mendelson · Post by **Sammy Mendelson** » 24 Dec 2007, 18:36

Spud wrote:This is what I f*cking hate about these forums - you have an opinion an how you rate a fighter - you get mocked for it - even more spineless is relying on other posters to feebly back up your OPINION and that is all it is - especially when you compare fighters from a different era.

I hope somebody has had the good sense to buy you a straight-jacket for Christmas!

JCS · Post by **JCS** » 24 Dec 2007, 19:24

Everyone's list is going to vary, especially if you ask them whether to disregard ERA Differences, or whatever, etc.

Personally, I look at career ledgers, and give some consideration to differences between era... while I also (maybe wrongfully so) give a little extra credit to those who do well in the competitive eras.

In which case, I definitely can't see Lewis in a Top 5. Top 8 is really a stretch, with #8-12 or so the most likely.

Lennox Lewis... All Time Rating.

Lennox Lewis' all time heavyweight ranking.

Lennox Lewis... All Time Rating.