Rate these heavyweight champs.

[Tantum]

I would like to know in what order you place all the recognized heavyweight champions since and including Joe Louis.



So, the fighters in question are...

Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingo Johansson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Leon Spinks
Larry Holmes
Mike Spinks
Mike Tyson
Buster Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Michael Moorer
Old George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko

[p4p1]

Muhammad Ali
Joe Lewis
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
Evander
Lennox Lewis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe
Floyd Patterson
Mike Spinks
Buster Douglas
Riddick Bowe
Old George
Michael Moorer
klitschko
klitschko
Ingo Johannsen
Leon Spinks
..... i no its not perfect

[Mukel]

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Rocky Maricano
Mike Tyson
Joe Frazier
Sonny Liston
Ezzard Charles
Floyd Patterson
Jersey Joe Walcott
Riddick Bowe
Michael Moorer
Vitali Klitschko
Wlad Klitschko
Michael Spinks
Ingo
Leon Spinks
Buster Douglas

[HomicideHenry]

Muhammad Ali/Joe Louis (tie)
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson
Jersey Joe Walcott/Ezzard Charles (tie)
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Riddick Bowe
Ingemar Johansson
Michael Spinks
Buster Douglas
Wladimir Klitschko/Vitali Klitschko (tie)
Michael Moorer
Leon Spinks

[JCS]

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano
George Foreman
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Mike Tyson
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
Riddick Bowe
Wladimir Klitschko
Michael Moorer
Mike Spinks
Vitali Klitschko
Ingo Johansson
Buster Douglas
Leon Spinks

[dempseyfire]

I would like to know in what order you place all the recognized heavyweight champions since and including Joe Louis.



So, the fighters in question are...

Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingo Johansson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Leon Spinks
Larry Holmes
Mike Spinks
Mike Tyson
Buster Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Michael Moorer
Old George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko

Joe Louis
Ali
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano
Sonny Liston
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Ezzard Charles
Evander Holyfield
Jersey Joe Walcott
Floyd Patterson
Riddick Bowe
Old George Foreman
Michael Moorer
Ingo Johansson
Michael Spinks
Buster Douglas
Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko
Leon Spinks

I feel people are perhaps under-rating Ingo. All of these guys won the "real" HW title excep the Klitschkos, who only were (am) paper titlists.

[Tantum]

I included the klitschko's because while they are only "paper" champs, there is no unified champ around. Vitali was the recognized champ, and Wlad is now.

[granberry]

Muhammad Ali
Joe Lewis
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
Evander
Lennox Lewis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe
Floyd Patterson
Mike Spinks
Buster Douglas
Riddick Bowe
Old George
Michael Moorer
klitschko
klitschko
Ingo Johannsen
Leon Spinks
..... i no its not perfect

pp,

Tell me more about this Joe Lewis.

[Klee Gluckman]

vitali should not be offered on these lists.

[chiricahua]

Muhammad Ali/Joe Louis (tie)
Mike Tyson
george foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
lennox lewis
Sonny Liston
rocky marciano
Riddick Bowe
evander holyfield
Floyd Patterson
Michael Spinks
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Ingemar Johansson
Old george foreman
Michael Moorer
Buster Douglas
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko
Leon Spinks

[Goodnight, Irene]

There is no, "World Heavyweight championship" in any meaningful sense right now, so neither Klitschko should be recognised as such IMO. To give an analogy, Tyson was recognised as the best in the world long before he beat Spinks, but could not be considered champion until he actually got into the ring with him.

Neither Klitschko (or any of the other top Heavies today) have the balls to re-build the linear championship, so none should get any kind of recognition as, "world champion."

[MEISINGER]

There is no, "World Heavyweight championship" in any meaningful sense right now, so neither Klitschko should be recognised as such IMO. To give an analogy, Tyson was recognised as the best in the world long before he beat Spinks, but could not be considered champion until he actually got into the ring with him.

Neither Klitschko (or any of the other top Heavies today) have the balls to re-build the linear championship, so none should get any kind of recognition as, "world champion."

i agree.there is no champ

[p4p1]

Muhammad Ali
Joe Lewis
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
Rocky Marciano
Evander
Lennox Lewis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe
Floyd Patterson
Mike Spinks
Buster Douglas
Riddick Bowe
Old George
Michael Moorer
klitschko
klitschko
Ingo Johannsen
Leon Spinks
..... i no its not perfect

pp,

Tell me more about this Joe Lewis.

it was late at night lol my bad

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's no laughing matter, P4P1. You'll have to come up with a better excuse than that to be exonerated for such a serious transgression. Where do you get off, anyway?

[p4p1]

i normally get off in my gf..... ill say my oui keys went missing at the time i was writing the name but mysteriously went back into place when i fell asleep

[p4p1]

i normally get off in my gf..... ill say my oui keys went missing at the time i was writing the name but mysteriously went back into place when i fell asleep

[Ezzard]

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Frazier
Liston
Holyfield
Lewis
Marciano
Tyson
Charles
Walcott
Paterson
Bowe
Vitali
Wlad
Johansson
Old George
Michael Moorer
Leon Spinks
Mike Spinks
Buster Douglas

[Ambling Alp]

Thats pretty much how I see it with some minor changes.

-I rate Foreman and Frazier higher than Holmes, but it's pretty close.
-Marciano could be a little higher.
-Bowe should be rated higher than Charles,Walcott, and Patterson.
- Michael Spinks and Douglas should be ahead of Leon Spinks.

You won't find two people that are in complete agreement, but Ezzard's list looks pretty good. Dempseyfire's list was pretty good as well.

We have our differences, but there is nothing way out of whack in either of them.

[Ezzard]

Bowe probably should be rated higher. He would have dwarfed those guys but didn't have their application.

I'd back him to beat all three basically on his size, durability and punch but I don't think he achieved as much as these guys.

He's a tough one to rate. Should have been much more.

[wouter]

I would like to know in what order you place all the recognized heavyweight champions since and including Joe Louis.



So, the fighters in question are...

Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingo Johansson
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
Leon Spinks
Larry Holmes
Mike Spinks
Mike Tyson
Buster Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
Michael Moorer
Old George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko

Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Joe Frazier
Muhammad Ali
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Rocky Marciano
Sonny Liston
Ezzard Charles
Joe Walcott
George Foreman
Floyd Patterson
Mike Tyson
Wladimir Klitschko
Riddick Bowe
Michael Spinks
Old George Foreman
Buster Douglas
Ingemar Johansson
Vitali Klitschko
Michael Moorer
Leon Spinks

[Ambling Alp]

Bowe probably should be rated higher. He would have dwarfed those guys but didn't have their application.

I'd back him to beat all three basically on his size, durability and punch but I don't think he achieved as much as these guys.

He's a tough one to rate. Should have been much more.

I agree that Bowe should have achieved more. However just judging by what he did achieve, isn't it more more impressive than Charles,Walcott or Patterson? He did beat a prime Holyfield and barely lost to him once. Is beating each other, and the rest of Charles and Walcott's accomplishments really impressive enough to rank them above Bowe? I don't see how.

[Ezzard]

Bowe probably should be rated higher. He would have dwarfed those guys but didn't have their application.

I'd back him to beat all three basically on his size, durability and punch but I don't think he achieved as much as these guys.

He's a tough one to rate. Should have been much more.

I agree that Bowe should have achieved more. However just judging by what he did achieve, isn't it more more impressive than Charles,Walcott or Patterson? All of them would have lost to Holyfield and were all inconsistent enough that they probably would have lost to some of Bowes other opponents, even though they weren't that great.

He did beat a prime Holyfield and barely lost to him once. Is beating each other, and the rest of Charles and Walcott's accomplishments really impressive enough to rank them above Bowe? I don't see how.

What I do like about those guys is that they came back from their defeats and put their careers back together.

Had Charles got the decision in the last fight with Walcott (as perhaps he should have) he'd have regained the title and fought Marciano earlier...which in my opinion would have seen him beat Rocky.

At one point I thought Bowe would beat Lewis but after watching him beat Hide I changed my mind.

You can rate him above them but I think it's pretty close.

[The Great John L]

I agree that Bowe should have achieved more. However just judging by what he did achieve, isn't it more more impressive than Charles,Walcott or Patterson? He did beat a prime Holyfield and barely lost to him once. Is beating each other, and the rest of Charles and Walcott's accomplishments really impressive enough to rank them above Bowe? I don't see how.

From ’42 – ’51 when he lost the HW title to Walcott, Charles beat

Burley
Maxim
Bivins
Moore
Marshall
Ray
Baksi
Walcott
Lesnevich
Beshore
Oma

Most of them he beat on multiple occasions.

During that time he lost to Marshall, Bivins and Ray. All 3 defeats were avenged.

While many of the guys he beat during that time were not HWs, many were ATGs, and Charles had great success as he moved from MW to LHW and then HW. It’s a pretty safe bet to say that by ’51 he was on the decline, although some will argue otherwise.

I rate Charles ahead of Bowe and feel it’s pretty easy to justify given Bowe’s weak resume outside of the Holyfield trilogy. I do rank Bowe above Patterson and Walcott and acknowledge that his size and (somewhat wasted) talent would have presented great challenges for just about any HW in history.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't see why Bowe should rate ahead of Patterson if the focus is accomplishment.

Is Bowe the youngest Heavyweight champion ever? Is he the first two-time champion in the history of the division? Was his competition superior? Did he fight all his best contemporaries for a period of twenty years?

The answer to all of the above is no. True enough, Bowe would badly clobber Patterson in the ring. However, Patterson is clearly the more accomplished fighter, & given he had size to overcome whereas Bowe had size as an advantage, that should only further emphasise Patterson's accomplishments.

[The Great John L]

I don't see why Bowe should rate ahead of Patterson if the focus is accomplishment.

Is Bowe the youngest Heavyweight champion ever? Is he the first two-time champion in the history of the division? Was his competition superior? Did he fight all his best contemporaries for a period of twenty years?

The answer to all of the above is no. True enough, Bowe would badly clobber Patterson in the ring. However, Patterson is clearly the more accomplished fighter, & given he had size to overcome whereas Bowe had size as an advantage, that should only further emphasise Patterson's accomplishments.

Yes I would agree that Patterson's accomplishments are greater than Bowe's. My appologies if implied otherwise. I was expressing my opinion for an overall rating of the group Alp mentioned.