Oi! McGuigan! Nooo! Having a pop at Roy Jones...

STP · Post by **STP** » 06 Jan 2008, 06:06

In a sense this is classic Jones. He has picked a fight against an opponent who was fleshy at middleweight.

This is risk-management Jones style. Throughout his career he has chosen bouts on his terms.

Apologists for Jones will doubtless point to the usual suspects. What about James Toney? Toney was fried at the super-middleweight limit.

Mike McCallum was an old man when Jones beat him.

And John Ruiz will go down as one of the most ordinary heavyweight champions in history. Even then Jones would not take a chance. It was stick and move all night.

The really exceptional fighters are those like Jones with all the skill, but who are willing to take a chance against the very best.

Jones was never that type. You always wondered why. Tarver and Johnson eventually proved why. Jones never had a great chin.

---

He beat Bernard Hopkins with one arm.

He beat obliterated Sugar Boy Malinga without taking a punch.

He took the fight against James Toney expecting Toney to be at his best, and at the time Toney was about the best-ever.

He was willing to fight in London against Eubank and Benn, despite them having left men wheelchair-bound in the most brutal fights ever.

He stopped Virgil Hill with a bodyshot, proving he was the best light-heavyweight in the world.

And he wiped out Griffin in a round.

He is the only person who has ever shut out Reggie Johnson.

And won a portion of the World Heavyweight Championship.

The man is one of the greatest ever.

I agree he should retire, though.

(Joe Calzaghe was not known in America from 1995 to 2005, he didn't go over there to fight, so really it's Calzaghe's fault that fight didn't come off.)

mrkh · Post by **mrkh** » 06 Jan 2008, 06:27

hopkins didn't peak until the glen johnson through to trinidad fights, toney had to lose 50 pounds in 5 wks and was on a drip at the hospital before the fight, mccallum was 40 and everyone thought he was old before the watson fight some 6 yrs earlier, virgil hill and reggie johnson were light yrs past their bests too and griffin outfeinted and outboxed jones in the 1st fight beating him fairly and squarely until getting rid of eddie futch for the 2nd match, and harding and tarver won plenty of rounds too (jones didn't have the skill to deal with southpaws)

jones is a fraudster. he really is. his entire game was based on muscle reflexes and they can be enhanced with anabolic steroids, he was not a skilled fighter! his defence was awful, leaning back and turning his head or closing his eyes, but he had the feet and muscular reflex to get away with it against either crap opposition, scared opposition or a name nowhere nr his best. his flurries of shots flowed like crazy and it was flashy to watch, but all enhanced by roids none the less. his fast 1-2's were good to watch, but again enhanced by roids. his lead hook was all reflexes. his lead right was all reflexes. his defence was all reflexes. and he enhanced those born reflexes by illegal means

if you watch jones closely his balance on his feet is about being able to tense every muscle of his body at once and that's not possible without strong substances enhancing you. he is a cheat and an 88-91 post-prime mccallum would wipe the floor with a 93-96 prime jones imo. if harding and tarver gave him so many problems, what would a prime 88-91 michael nunn do??? nunn was shutting out a fit toney. and jones gave up his wbc strap when nunn was mandatory, you'll remember. as for hagler, don't even go there! an 88-91 benn would find his chin, no question about that

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 06 Jan 2008, 06:49

Roy Jones wasn't willing to fight Eubank. I know that to be a fact. Roy Jones has gone on record as saying that Eubank is the only fighter that he avoided out of Benn, Collins and Eubank.

However, there are also unfounded stories that Jones also avoided Benn and Collins, but I think that only came from the fighters themselves.

7 years ago, when this fight was due to happen had Trinidad beaten Hopkins, this would be arguably the most anticipated fight since DLH v Trinidad. Fact is, both are washed up.

Jones was on the verge of being a top 10 G.O.A.T. with his Ruiz win. Now he's an old circus act that has tainted his legacy by getting KTFO, twice.

To compare Calzaghe and Roy Jones is embarassing. Calzaghe only had 8 fights up to the year Jones left to LHW. Calzaghe is the greatest SMW there has ever been. Period.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 06 Jan 2008, 06:55

When was Roy Jones willing to fight in London?

whicker · Post by **whicker** » 06 Jan 2008, 07:21

Syntax Error wrote:When was Roy Jones willing to fight in London?

Yeah, he never seem inclined to come to England, I don't think he avoided it as such, more that Eubank and Benn, from an american perspective, weren't big enough fights.

Podmore_Birmingham · Post by **Podmore_Birmingham** » 06 Jan 2008, 07:24

whicker wrote:
Syntax Error wrote:When was Roy Jones willing to fight in London?
Yeah, he never seem inclined to come to England, I don't think he avoided it as such, more that Eubank and Benn, from an american perspective, weren't big enough fights.

I read that Jones was especially weary of travelling abroad after what happened to close friend Gerald McClellan.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 06 Jan 2008, 07:46

nah, it was due to the Olympic robbery that went against him. after that, going abroad was beneath him.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 06 Jan 2008, 08:11

Podmore_Birmingham wrote:
whicker wrote:
Syntax Error wrote:When was Roy Jones willing to fight in London?
Yeah, he never seem inclined to come to England, I don't think he avoided it as such, more that Eubank and Benn, from an american perspective, weren't big enough fights.
I read that Jones was especially weary of travelling abroad after what happened to close friend Gerald McClellan.

I thought so.

Jones was like Calzaghe; a fighter whose passport mysteriously disappeared during his prime years, only to appear, as if by magic, when he was ageing (not that either have used them yet, although they keep talking about it

.!

STP · Post by **STP** » 06 Jan 2008, 11:31

mrkh wrote:hopkins didn't peak until the glen johnson through to trinidad fights, toney had to lose 50 pounds in 5 wks and was on a drip at the hospital before the fight, mccallum was 40 and everyone thought he was old before the watson fight some 6 yrs earlier, virgil hill and reggie johnson were light yrs past their bests too and griffin outfeinted and outboxed jones in the 1st fight beating him fairly and squarely until getting rid of eddie futch for the 2nd match, and harding and tarver won plenty of rounds too (jones didn't have the skill to deal with southpaws)

jones is a fraudster. he really is. his entire game was based on muscle reflexes and they can be enhanced with anabolic steroids, he was not a skilled fighter! his defence was awful, leaning back and turning his head or closing his eyes, but he had the feet and muscular reflex to get away with it against either crap opposition, scared opposition or a name nowhere nr his best. his flurries of shots flowed like crazy and it was flashy to watch, but all enhanced by roids none the less. his fast 1-2's were good to watch, but again enhanced by roids. his lead hook was all reflexes. his lead right was all reflexes. his defence was all reflexes. and he enhanced those born reflexes by illegal means

if you watch jones closely his balance on his feet is about being able to tense every muscle of his body at once and that's not possible without strong substances enhancing you. he is a cheat and an 88-91 post-prime mccallum would wipe the floor with a 93-96 prime jones imo. if harding and tarver gave him so many problems, what would a prime 88-91 michael nunn do??? nunn was shutting out a fit toney. and jones gave up his wbc strap when nunn was mandatory, you'll remember. as for hagler, don't even go there! an 88-91 benn would find his chin, no question about that

Okay, so they were all fornicating one-legged tramps when he fought them. What a coincidence. There's no way anyone can constuct a career like that, the way your saying, with such perfect timing etc. He beat an all-time great to win the IBF middleweight title, he beat another all-time great to win the IBF super-middleweight title, and then he won the WBC, WBA and IBF light-heavyweight titles before the decade was out. And then won the WBA heavyweight title. This all-time great stuff, any way you slice it. As for the steroid stuff, in my honest opinion yes it did look like he was juiced up, the way his body looked after a few years at light-heavy and at heavy, and in the Malinga and McCallum fights too. His body looked like that of a juicer.

STP · Post by **STP** » 06 Jan 2008, 11:34

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Roy Jones wasn't willing to fight Eubank. I know that to be a fact. Roy Jones has gone on record as saying that Eubank is the only fighter that he avoided out of Benn, Collins and Eubank.

No he said Eubank was the one fighter he'd have been weary of losing against. He thought he'd have problems with him.

STP · Post by **STP** » 06 Jan 2008, 11:36

Syntax Error wrote:When was Roy Jones willing to fight in London?

He called out Eubank pretty much every week from July 1992 to March 1995, and always said he'd fight him anywhere. Then he wanted Benn, because it would have been the biggest fight in boxing after Benn-McClellan.

STP · Post by **STP** » 06 Jan 2008, 11:39

whicker wrote:
Syntax Error wrote:When was Roy Jones willing to fight in London?
Yeah, he never seem inclined to come to England, I don't think he avoided it as such, more that Eubank and Benn, from an american perspective, weren't big enough fights.

Benn not a big enough fight?? I was under the impression Benn was a big name in America, from the Watson fight through to the second Malinga fight all of his fights were on American TV! And the McClellan incident hit main news headlines...

Benn and Jones were offered $25,000,000 each to fight, but Jones refused to fight for Don King back then.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 06 Jan 2008, 12:29

STP wrote:
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Roy Jones wasn't willing to fight Eubank. I know that to be a fact. Roy Jones has gone on record as saying that Eubank is the only fighter that he avoided out of Benn, Collins and Eubank.
No he said Eubank was the one fighter he'd have been weary of losing against. He thought he'd have problems with him.

Odd that I've read in RING and Boxing Monthly before that Jones was quoted as saying my original response.

Nessie · Post by **Nessie** » 06 Jan 2008, 12:42

Even though I believe he did avoid Collins, Benn and Eubank, I still think Jones had too much for them. I think Collins would have had the better chance against him with his mad aggression.

boxbet · Post by **boxbet** » 06 Jan 2008, 13:01

If jones did take steroids, (his face does look prematurely aged ) , how long will he live to??

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 06 Jan 2008, 17:09

Jones was a great fighter. People were just itching to see him fall.

STP · Post by **STP** » 07 Jan 2008, 05:55

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
STP wrote:
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Roy Jones wasn't willing to fight Eubank. I know that to be a fact. Roy Jones has gone on record as saying that Eubank is the only fighter that he avoided out of Benn, Collins and Eubank.
No he said Eubank was the one fighter he'd have been weary of losing against. He thought he'd have problems with him.
Odd that I've read in RING and Boxing Monthly before that Jones was quoted as saying my original response.

When were those from then? Because I remember reading in Boxing Monthly and Boxing News many times Jones calling out Eubank. He called him out at the Benn-Eubank II press conference in New York as well and after his fight with Malinga. He was asked about the McClellan-Jackson and Eubank-Close fights (that were on Showtime) the day after his win over Tate and made a good point regarding Eubank-Close being such a seemingly bad decision saying "What you gotta understand is, that just looking at two rounds a little different makes its a 4-point swing on a scorecard. And that makes it look like a robbery" as if trying to defend Eubank because he wanted to fight him.

If you watch his post-fight interview after his fight with Byrd, that guy Larry Merchant tells him that Eubank lost a few hours earlier and Jones's face looks genuinely shocked. He wanted Eubank.

STP · Post by **STP** » 08 Jan 2008, 04:24

Nobody interested in the Jones boy anymore?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 08 Jan 2008, 06:24

Nessie wrote:Even though I believe he did avoid Collins, Benn and Eubank, I still think Jones had too much for them. I think Collins would have had the better chance against him with his mad aggression.

Jones would have beaten Collins with plenty to spare. Collins wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance.

E · Post by E » 08 Jan 2008, 06:40

boxbet wrote:If jones did take steroids, (his face does look prematurely aged ) , how long will he live to??

IF????? He has failed at least one test....

Look at his body - it's unnatural. I spoke to a pro who boxed in the US and he said that steroids are rife in US pro boxing.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 08 Jan 2008, 08:46

Jones is one of the best fighters between 160-175 ever and for any one to say otherwise is pathetic, Dont let your national pride get in the way of your brain as Calzaghe in his prime was no were near as skilled as Jones in any way and a fight between either Benn Eubank Calzaghe or Collins against jones would have ended in a beating for the lot of them.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 08 Jan 2008, 08:51

Dont mistake reflex for skill.

Jones was a fabulously gifted athelete. Put as Barry said, he cherry picked his way from Toney onwards.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 08 Jan 2008, 08:57

If Jones had retired after Ruiz we wouldn't be having this conversation. He is an all-time great, a brilliant fighter. I love Benn and Eubank but he would have stood them both on their heads. Collins would not have won a round.

I watched Dan Sherry outbox Eubank for large spells of their fight, on ESPN classics the other night. Never seen the entire fight before.

If Sherry made Chris look a plodder, what would Jones have done....

Jones v Reggie Johnson, Toney, Ruiz, McCallum, Hopkins, Grant, Pazienza, Hill and Griffin is enough to see him into the HOF. And there were many more great wins - Del Valle, Telesco...he made these guys look like pedestrians.

Tarver is the luckiest man alive to have had Jones at the right time....

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 08 Jan 2008, 08:58

Benn would have posed the biggest problems for him IMO, but he'd have still lost..

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 08 Jan 2008, 12:28

Saw a good interview with him the other day from years back, with Eammon Holmes. Had a bloody tough life has old Barry, everything from Young Ali dying after their fight to his brother committing suicide and his daughter's cancer.

Brave chap, he came across in a different light.