My top 10 Heavyweights

[masterorder19]

1) Jack Johnson
2) Sam Langford
3) Joe Louis
4) Sonny Liston
5) Muhammad Ali
6) Sam Mcvey
7) Joe Jeannette
8) Harry Wills
9) Goerge Foreman
10) Jack Dempsey

This is a prime to prime head to head basis

[Borinken25]

First welcome to the forum. Second if this prime to prime head to head basis, how come Ali is ranked below Liston? You do know they fought twice and Ali won both fights.

[masterorder19]

First welcome to the forum. Second if this prime to prime head to head basis, how come Ali is ranked below Liston? You do know they fought twice and Ali won both fights.

Yeah I kow that but Liston wasn't in his prime by then...And both those fights are speculation..We all know the second fight was a joke and i have truly eliev the first one was too...Liston had the heart to fight through 5 rounds with a broken jaw and he would then quit wit a injured shoulder like that?? i don't know but either way Liston wasn't in his prime anyways..

[Borinken25]

Sonny Liston past his prime? Are you sure? Liston was coming of two huge KO wins against Patterson and after he went on to win at least 14 more times and many of those wins were by KO. How does that make Liston past his prime? More likely he was outclassed by a better fighter.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Liston was past his peak. He was pretty rusty, as well. I've seen people fly way overboard & say in a prime-for-prime match-up, Liston wouldn't have stood even a puncher's chance against the Ali of 65-67, which is rubbish IMO.

But, I do find it hard to envision Liston winning. It's not impossible --- Liston's reach was greater, his jab heavier & when younger, he had deceptive boxing skills. However, he has to overcome a clear stylistic disadvantage & a brilliant boxing brain which likely adds up to a late stoppage defeat.

I doubt flat-footed Jack Johnson would've been able to hang with Joe Louis' combinations, either.

[dempseyfire]

I doubt flat-footed Jack Johnson would've been able to hang with Joe Louis' combinations, either.

Are you seriously insinuating Louis had quicker feet than Johnson?

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Are you seriously insinuating Louis had quicker feet than Johnson?" - DempseyFire

Not at all. I'm insinuating that Johnson wouldn't be able to get out of the way of Louis' hooks & uppercuts brought off the jab. No mention of Louis' footwork.

[Marlin]

Sonny Liston past his prime? Are you sure? Liston was coming of two huge KO wins against Patterson and after he went on to win at least 14 more times and many of those wins were by KO. How does that make Liston past his prime? More likely he was outclassed by a better fighter.

[Robinson]

hey mate.... curious to know if you can list what your fave fights are for each guy that you have seen.

Kym

[ben geoghegan]

Nice list !

[Robinson]

Any one can make a list.

Justifying it is another thing.

[Grant]

1) Jack Johnson
2) Sam Langford
3) Joe Louis
4) Sonny Liston
5) Muhammad Ali
6) Sam Mcvey
7) Joe Jeannette
8) Harry Wills
9) Goerge Foreman
10) Jack Dempsey

This is a prime to prime head to head basis

Are some of these guys just made up names?

[I Feel Fine]

Even if you wanted to say that Liston wasn't in his prime against Clay, which he wasn't, Clay wasn't in his prime either, he was still developing. The whole "he would fight through a broken jaw but quit with a shoulder injury" argument is null. Duran was involved in some great wars, but quit out of frustration against Leonard. Same deal with Liston. When you have an opponent in front of you who is there to hit, that's one thing. When you can't find your opponent and are losing round after round, you might be more tempted to say "ah, screw it."

All that said, I'm pretty concinvinced that Liston on the night that he lost to Clay was still good enough to beat Patterson, Machen, Folley or Williams. Clay just had the style to beat him.

I'll never understand the logic for ranking Johnson ahead of Ali and Louis. Not that I don't like Johnson, but but I don't see him beating them head to head.

I'm glad that you appreciate pre-30's Heavyweights, and think more boxing fans should. But that said, you're not giving the rest of Heavyweight history a fair shake either. No Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano?

[Ezzard]

Liston was past his best and was rusty but even so Ali had his measure and although I'd have loved to have seen the rematch when Liston was fully focused (before the cancellation) it would be more to see how Ali coped with him, and how close it would be, rather than any anticipation that Liston would win.

[The Great John L]

Any one can make a list.

Justifying it is another thing.

He doesn't have to justify it, it's his opinion. Certainly not to posters on this forum.

[The Great John L]

Are some of these guys just made up names?

See what I mean? Why justify an opinion to a crowd that makes posts like this?

[masterorder19]

Any one can make a list.

Justifying it is another thing.

SORRY MAN BUT I CAN ONLY GET ONLINE AT WORK I DON'T HAVE A COMPUTER BUT i'L MAKE MY NOTES AND THEN I WILL WRITE WHY I FEEL THIS WAY..AND WHY I PICKED MY LIST..SORRY U DON'T AGREE..

[HomicideHenry]

As far as a Johnson-Louis hypothetical match-up, it's a bit of a mystery. Joe Louis, during the NCR tournaments in 1967-1968, stated that Jack Blackburn (his trainer) said the only man he felt could have beaten Joe at his best was Jack Johnson, that Johnson had everything a fighter could want and then some.

But on the flip side, when Johnson was in his 50's, he had called Joe Louis every name in the book, labeling him as a green horn who would trip over his own feet, betting against him every time he fought, and even went so far as to even challenge the Brown Bomber in the ring...Jack Blackburn, when Johnson ran up the the Louis camp, told Johnson to get the hell off the property, and would later say: "That big cat (Johnson) never gave anybody any credit, he'd want no part of Chappie (Joe)."

The list isn't too bad, because there is alot of fighters that you can make a very solid argument for being the "greatest" of all time. Hell, at one time I believed John L. Sullivan was the greatest, only to change my mind and touted that Johnson was the greatest, and so on and so forth. Though my list now is vastly different than it used to be when I was younger, I still believe I could make the argument that Johnson, Louis, Sullivan and others outside of Muhammad Ali could be the greatest.

[The Great John L]

Hell, at one time I believed John L. Sullivan was the greatest, only to change my mind and touted that Johnson was the greatest, and so on and so forth. Though my list now is vastly different than it used to be when I was younger, I still believe I could make the argument that Johnson, Louis, Sullivan and others outside of Muhammad Ali could be the greatest.

Excellent logic HH...

[Robinson]

You dont have to justify anything to me or any here. BUT for me I think if one is going to make a list, and be absolute on this decision then I think it makes sense to give a reason for each pick.

Im not one for Top Ten Lists, unless one has with confidence watches ENOUGH or researched the guys in contention.

I also find it hard to put guys on a list of HW when some never wore the strap. Granted that they were avoided and the sport was racist with the colour bar. BUT without a doubt when one is a CHAMPION his opponents come with more into the fight, trying to dislodge the man from his throne.
So it stands to reason that defending a title is alot harder than in some cases winning it.

BUt that is just my humble opinion, and I am after all here to express mine BUT also to learn what other people have to say or have experienced from the sport.

Kym

[Goodnight, Irene]

Are some of these guys just made up names?

See what I mean? Why justify an opinion to a crowd that makes posts like this?

[BoxBuzz]

Are some of these guys just made up names?

See what I mean? Why justify an opinion to a crowd that makes posts like this?

What's the problem? Every name on that list was made up. It just happens they were made up by their mama's...and in some cases their daddy's. Oh...and some gave themselves their names.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It could become one of those lasting quotes in boxing forum history --- I still remember an infamous one-liner that passed into legend...

"Joppy lost because of the ring."

They are indeed real fighters, Grant.