Gutsiest Fight Ever?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 10 Jan 2008, 20:15

While this could mean alot of different things to different people, to me it means the biggest risk being taken by the one fighter who more or less has nothing to really gain or lose. Yes I am referring to the under-dog fights. Capable, dependable, durable fighters who just went a bit over their heads in the ring, and got more than what they bargained for.

For me, I'd have to nominate both Chuck Wepner and Randall Tex Cobb for this honor, especially the Bayonne Bleeder. Wepner took huge risks and gambles against the likes of Liston, Foreman and later Ali, each time not only being completely out classed and out gunned, but being completely dominated. Against Liston, he got 87 stitches in his face for his efforts. Against Foreman, his orbital socket was broken and his eyeball almost popped out of his head. Against Ali, though, he gave his gutsiest effort in the ring, taking shot after shot, going almost the entire 15 rounds with possibly the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Cobb, on the other hand, was a human anvil. Against Larry Holmes, he more than went in over his head, losing possibly the widest decision in Heavyweight championship history, bleeding beyond repair, and was so one sided and ghastly that Howard Cossell refused to ever call another boxing match for the rest of his life.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 10 Jan 2008, 21:44

The first fight that popped into my mind was Benny Paret's brutal defeat at the hands of Gene Fullmer.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 11 Jan 2008, 04:39

I like Cobb, he is a fun and cheekt guy. Who seemed to do pretty well for himself out side of boxing ( and kickboxing).

Its ashame that he is often only remembered for the Holmes fight, being a walking target for holmes.

He did well to get there, Cobb for all his faults on a technical level was very resilient and had a good work rate.

The match between these two caused great controversy as Holmes was able to completely dominate and won every round. Cobb was fresh of an eighth round stoppage of an always dangerous though aging Earnie Shavers, and proved he could take punishment as well as dish it out. He then went on to lose two close split decisions to Ken Norton and Michael Dokes, in these fights he proved how tenacious a fighter he can be. After the Dokes loss he went on to string four straight wins together which included a decision victory over the tough contender Bernado Mercado. Cobb went on after the Holmes loss to beat Leon Spinks and lose a majortity decision to an up and coming Buster Douglas.

All being said and done thats not bad for a really ugly fighter who looked more at home behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler than in the ring with the world champion.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 11 Jan 2008, 17:28

Gene Tunney's loss to Harry Greb. Tunney's blood was all over the ring.
Barney Ross against Henry Armstrong. Ross begged the referee not to stop the fight because he wanted to end his career without ever being stopped.
Ray Mancini in the second fight with Livingstone Bramble. Mancini was dominated and busted up over the first 8 rounds, The referee told him he was letting it go one more round, and amazingly Mancini won the 9th. Still looking like he was cut too bad to continue, Mancini won the 10th as well, and then the remaining 5 to lose a 1 pt decision.

theone · Post by **theone** » 12 Jan 2008, 14:19

who could forget Douglas pounding the canvas seconds after Tyson dropped him with a hellacious uppercut, then getting by up to finish the awesome display he put on that night. Nobody would have thought ill of him if he had stayed down. Talk about gutsy!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 12 Jan 2008, 20:45

Navarette Edwards
Chacon Limon

I suppose they have been named before.

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 13 Jan 2008, 00:52

Ron Stander. Pure guts in his title shot against Joe Frazier, but he was just getting pummeled before the fight was stopped.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 13 Jan 2008, 18:44

Ron Stander, I never seen fight until yesterday on the Joe Frazier marathon, and I was surprised greatly at some of the weaknesses that actually Joe Frazier had. It made me personally wonder, how Frazier would have faired against a Marciano or Dempsey, if Ron Stander was able to go four and wasn't quite hurt in there against Frazier [he lost on cuts, but was still game as hell to fight]?

It was a gutsy fight, for a man who was relatively a journeyman. I give mad props to the cowboy from Iowa. Was a very interesting and entertaining encounter.

Rufus Homicide Henry Defibaugh

Ric · Post by **Ric** » 13 Jan 2008, 20:40

See the Cyber Boxing Zone's forum discussion of the "most courage shown" during a bout.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 13 Jan 2008, 22:25

Tom McNeely against Patterson. He was out classed and out gunned.

No matter how many times he was put down he kept getting up.

Jackson vs Patterson in the re-match took a big betaing but kept going.

Joe Frazier vs Foreman, no matter how many times he was put down, he
kept getting up. George never technically KO'd him.

Biggs against Bowe he took alot of damage and showed what talent he
had, just out matched.

Coetzer vs Bowe. This man took serious damage and kept fighting. He was never a pretty fighter, and bled alot but Bowe just could not KO him.

Holyfield Vs Bowe 1. He was losing but he still gave it EVERYTHING he had. A great fight.

Thats all I can think of now. Better get back to work.

Kym

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 13 Jan 2008, 23:08

As far as Patterson is concerned, if anyone was possibly in over their head against him (outside of McNeeley) it's the most famous 0-0-0 fighter of all time Pete Rademacher. Though an Olympic Gold medalist, he was way over his head in believing he had a chance against Patterson. He was promptly knocked out in the 6th round, after being totally out classed and out gunned.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 14 Jan 2008, 03:20

True, he was very out classed. That was a silly defence and well, atleast Patterson won, imagine if he had not have....

Gutsy on Rademachers part to hang around for as long as he did.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 14 Jan 2008, 03:41

^^^ how did the guy earn to right to fight for the world title?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 14 Jan 2008, 15:42

It was mostly a propaganda stunt, but it was also a tactic done on purpose by Cus D'Amato, so that Patterson didn't have to face Eddie Machen and other tough contenders at the time. He knew Patterson had the skills, but he didn't believe Patterson had the mental make up to quite be in there against the genuine best of the best.

This same tactic was done for Tyson on his way up, as all his opponents were durable but safe.

It also didn't hurt that since D'Amato was the sole manager/trainer of Patterson (the champ) that due to having that much authority over his fighter, he more or less had the IBC in the palm of his hand (much like Al Weil had over Rocky Marciano), so it was D'Amato calling the shots for the most part.

The same deal was done when Machen fought Zora Folley to a draw, and D'Amato said that it eliminated both Folley and Machen from the #1 spot to go up against Patterson; but in an ironic way, this was totally reversed when Johansson knocked out Machen, and D'Amato proclaimed Johansson as the worthy contender.

Rufus Homicide Henry Defibaugh

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 14 Jan 2008, 19:44

and it was once D'Amto left Pattersons camp that Floyd got bolder and
faced more guys. I think deep down Patterson hated being considered
a man that would not face the best.

Patterson was only a 'kid' when he was managed by D'Amto and seemed to mature into a fine man, once he lost the title.

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 14 Jan 2008, 20:26

Hey Homicide, here's a question, since both names have already been mentioned -- Ron Stander vs. Chuck Wepner?
Let's assume both fighters coming in like another title shot was on the line for the winner. Who would have won that fight?

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 15 Jan 2008, 00:50

2 Mancini fights:

1. The late Duk Koo Kim against Ray Mancini. Everytime it looked like Kim was going to get blasted to Kingdom Come, Kim just came back. He was also taking hellacious bodyshots, unfortunately he paid the ultimate price, but his effort, heart, tenacity, will NEVER be forgotten.

2. Ray Mancini against Alexis Arguello. Mancini fought to his complete potential, but the difference was Arguello's experience and hall of fame talent.

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 15 Jan 2008, 02:05

kingpawn wrote:Hey Homicide, here's a question, since both names have already been mentioned -- Ron Stander vs. Chuck Wepner?
Let's assume both fighters coming in like another title shot was on the line for the winner. Who would have won that fight?

Answering my own question! I think this would have been a pretty entertaining brawl ... sort of like a toughman contest without headgear.
Think I'd have to go with Stander. Not sure if he was tougher, but I just think he was a little better.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 16 Jan 2008, 10:54

I think Nigel Benn's victory over a dangerous puncher like Gerald McClellan was a gutsy win in my opinion.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 16 Jan 2008, 12:56

There are many guys who went on and on and on no matter what hit them, as long as their brains weren't blown out. Fighters that immediately come to my mind are Mickey Walker (for example against Schmeling), Carmen Basilio (for example against Fullmer), and Joe Frazier (for example agasint Foreman).

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 16 Jan 2008, 12:58

elmersalsa wrote:I think Nigel Benn's victory over a dangerous puncher like Gerald McClellan was a gutsy win in my opinion.

Benn was very gutsy. As was Eubank. Eubank vs. Watford is a prime example of a fighter refusing to give in, digging deep and coming back to get an improbable win. This would be an all-time classic were it not for the bitter end.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 16 Jan 2008, 13:09

Ali -v- Frazier 3 - What tremendous heart both those men showed. It did not matter who you were rooting for; both men made you proud to be a fight fan. Both of them nearly nearly killed themselves (& each other) in the pursuit of glory & for what?

Ali was remarkable, but perhaps, Frazier's was the gutsiest losing effort I've ever seen.

Legally blind in one eye going into the fight & his good eye closed shut & he still would not stop coming, even in 110 degree heat.

What great warriors Ali & Frazier were.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 17 Jan 2008, 04:24

Hey Homicide, here's a question, since both names have already been mentioned -- Ron Stander vs. Chuck Wepner?
Let's assume both fighters coming in like another title shot was on the line for the winner. Who would have won that fight?

Though you already put down your own opinion as to who would have won; here's my own spin on it. Wepner was a very talented amatuer who had some 250 fights, rarely losing. Wepner was arguably one of the toughest, and most game fighters in history. While against the major players of the era (Liston, Foreman, Ali) he looked like he was light years behind them, it was like a caveman against a Chevrolet Cavalier.

Stander on the other hand, just might have had more skill, and was just as game and was a tough kid in his own right...but being a guy from out in the Iowa territory, something tells me he probably didn't have much amateur experience, and while he did have a title shot, he was more or less a journeyman throughout his career...

Wepner was able to beat guys like Henry Clark, and go the distance against the likes of Randy Neumann and Ernie Terrell (dont believe the record, was a horrible decision, Terrell should have won it)...Stander was more or less a one fight 'wonder', who managed to give Joe Frazier a pretty entertaining, game contest while it lasted.

My prediction? Hands down, Wepner would have won by a decision. He was just too experienced as an amateur, had gone through the bigger and tougher fights, and let's face it...though his face busted open like paper mache, there wasn't that many men out there who could have thwarted him, dodged him, punched him down enough to have made him quit coming at his opponent.

Minotauro · Post by **Minotauro** » 17 Jan 2008, 15:00

Frazier and Holyfield they could take a beating and keep coming, never lost any heart no matter how out matched they were.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 17 Jan 2008, 16:31

HomicideHenry wrote:
Hey Homicide, here's a question, since both names have already been mentioned -- Ron Stander vs. Chuck Wepner?
Let's assume both fighters coming in like another title shot was on the line for the winner. Who would have won that fight?
Though you already put down your own opinion as to who would have won; here's my own spin on it. Wepner was a very talented amatuer who had some 250 fights, rarely losing. Wepner was arguably one of the toughest, and most game fighters in history. While against the major players of the era (Liston, Foreman, Ali) he looked like he was light years behind them, it was like a caveman against a Chevrolet Cavalier.

Stander on the other hand, just might have had more skill, and was just as game and was a tough kid in his own right...but being a guy from out in the Iowa territory, something tells me he probably didn't have much amateur experience, and while he did have a title shot, he was more or less a journeyman throughout his career...

Wepner was able to beat guys like Henry Clark, and go the distance against the likes of Randy Neumann and Ernie Terrell (dont believe the record, was a horrible decision, Terrell should have won it)...Stander was more or less a one fight 'wonder', who managed to give Joe Frazier a pretty entertaining, game contest while it lasted.

My prediction? Hands down, Wepner would have won by a decision. He was just too experienced as an amateur, had gone through the bigger and tougher fights, and let's face it...though his face busted open like paper mache, there wasn't that many men out there who could have thwarted him, dodged him, punched him down enough to have made him quit coming at his opponent.

A few things caught my attention here:
1. Chuck Wepner really had 250 amatuer fights? He doesn't look he ever had any amatuer training whatsoever.
He was a tough guy, and he not only went the distance with Nuemann, he beat him 2 out of 3.

2. I wouldn't assume that just because Stander was from Iowa that he didn't have much of an amatuer background. There were amatuer boxing clubs in many more parts of the country than they there are now. Also, Stander was from Council Bluffs, which is very close to Omaha,Nebraska which is a decent size city and had boxing history.
Btw- I remember watching the Stander-Norton fight on TV. It was similar to the Frazier fight; Stander had no chance, but he kept trying.

3. While against the major players of the era (Liston, Foreman, Ali) he looked like he was light years behind them, it was like a caveman against a Chevrolet Cavalier.
I used to have a Cavalier. I have never heard anyone say they were that impressive before. Yes it probably could beat a caveman in a race, as long as it wasn't uphill.