Did you think Ray Leonard could beat Terry Norris ?

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 06 Feb 2008, 23:05

Going into the fight who did you think would win ?

Terry Norris or Ray Leonard

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 07 Feb 2008, 01:27

..norris.

IKSRTFO · Post by **IKSRTFO** » 07 Feb 2008, 08:54

Terry Norris did win didn't he. I might be wrong, but I believe Norris knocked him out, or was that Camacho?

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 07 Feb 2008, 09:08

IKSRTFO wrote:Terry Norris did win didn't he. I might be wrong, but I believe Norris knocked him out, or was that Camacho?

Norris won a wide decision and floored SRL twice. But before the fight I probably allowed myself to be taken in by Leonard's talk and Norris' chin and went for Leonard. Still, never claimed I'm an expert, just a fan!

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Feb 2008, 09:24

The Leonard who beat Kalule would have been a different fight.

Leonard was no longer impregnable once he left 147 though and was dropped by some less than stellar opposition. I think this would be a good fight but Leonard would IMO KO him like Jackson but it would be later on.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 08 Feb 2008, 16:21

Prime on prime....Norris gets to work in Sugar Ray's corner carrying the spit bucket, if he is really lucky.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 09 Feb 2008, 01:18

..i am not a leonard fan, but it's only fair to add that there were times in the match when it looked as if norris could have gone for the kayo, but in a post fight interview norris said he was aware of leonard's cleverness and thought he might be playing possum in order to lead him into a mistake and thought leonard could still have a kayo punch.

whilst i am here...my two favorite sugar ray leonard fights are the one with norris and the one with camacho.

Evander · Post by **Evander** » 09 Feb 2008, 02:25

Going into this fight beforehand was what I meant to say ?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 09 Feb 2008, 09:09

At the time, I thought Leonard might just pull it off, as Norris was still quite young & I thought, Leonard, being the shrewd guy that he was, he might have enough to just pull it off.

Ultimately he was more shot than a baddie in the A-Team; but nobody would have been able to tell, as Leonard had not fought in over a year at that time.

dagosd2000 · Post by **dagosd2000** » 09 Feb 2008, 16:15

I used to work with a fighter named Gilbert Baptist,who also worked for the probation department in San Diego. He fought Norris and lost a decision. Baptist then became one of Norris's sparring partners. I used to watch Norris train at Spud Murphy's gym with Baptist. Norris was very sharp and focused then. The three of us knew that Leonard had lost a lot of his speed and wouldn't be able to keep up with Terry. Norris was confident,but carefull with Leonard that night. He should have knocked him out. But we all knew Terry would win.

witherspoon · Post by **witherspoon** » 09 Feb 2008, 16:29

I always thought that Leonard was playing possum in the later rounds. I don't think he had anything left to legitimately concern Norris, but still he was smart enough to bluff Norris out of going for a stoppage. Funny, I don't hate on Leonard, but seeing him struggling against the odds in this fight, improvising in desperate moments was what convinced me that this guy is a REAL fighter.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 11 Feb 2008, 23:04

Nobody in their right mind was pulling for leonard to pull it off. Leonard was widely favored and no one dared question who the winner would be.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 11 Feb 2008, 23:10

Ezzard wrote:The Leonard who beat Kalule would have been a different fight.

Leonard was no longer impregnable once he left 147 though and was dropped by some less than stellar opposition. I think this would be a good fight but Leonard would IMO KO him like Jackson but it would be later on.

You must be making that assessment off his numerous jr. middleweight title defenses

More bad news: leonard was never impregnable even in his prime or at 147. Check out that eye of his after the Hearns fight.

And Ray is no Julian Jackson; boxing is his game, not pressure. Terry wins 10/10

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 11 Feb 2008, 23:14

ringsider wrote:Prime on prime....Norris gets to work in Sugar Ray's corner carrying the spit bucket, if he is really lucky.

I guess dreaming about it can't hurt.

Norris has got this guy's number. Terry catches Ray early and puts him in another shell that lasts until the final bell. Nothing changes but the dates on the calendar.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 14 Feb 2008, 01:48

Prime for prime, if Simon Brown knocked Norris out in 4, what I would I expect with someone as formidable as Leonard. Leonard stops him in 7 rounds.

Leonard at 154lbs was not as good as when he was at 147lbs. But still, too much class for a guy like Terry Norris in their primes.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 15 Feb 2008, 22:49

Elton John wrote:
ringsider wrote:Prime on prime....Norris gets to work in Sugar Ray's corner carrying the spit bucket, if he is really lucky.
I guess dreaming about it can't hurt.

Norris has got this guy's number. Terry catches Ray early and puts him in another shell that lasts until the final bell. Nothing changes but the dates on the calendar.

And you say I am the one who is dreaming?

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 16 Feb 2008, 11:38

ringsider wrote:
Elton John wrote:
ringsider wrote:Prime on prime....Norris gets to work in Sugar Ray's corner carrying the spit bucket, if he is really lucky.
I guess dreaming about it can't hurt.

Norris has got this guy's number. Terry catches Ray early and puts him in another shell that lasts until the final bell. Nothing changes but the dates on the calendar.
And you say I am the one who is dreaming?

you wouldnt care to elaborate would you? I suppose you can't in this case-you got nothing to show for. Look Ringsider, I would surely go along with what you said except that Leonard doesn't own a win over Norris. Your claim "Norris gets to carry Leonard's spit bucket" rings false and you come across as delusisional. I know reputation, even as one as short on accomplishments as Leonard goes a long way but you need some actual wins over some top ranked fighters to go along with it.

Maybe he should have defended that WBC title he "won" against Hagler and faced some quality contenders; Nunn, McCallum, Kalambay instead of picking fights with lalonde. What a waste of aire time!

Surely the middelweights would have provided him the kind of experience you need when facing a Terry Norris. There is a huge difference between a lubering lummox in Donny Lalonde and slick speedsters like Norris. Instead, leonard showed woefully unprepared, like someone who stood up the night before a fianl exam and failed utterly.

Norris, is a great success story and one of the better fighters over the last 3 decades, Terry holds a brialliant win over SRL. I would call it a win and more than a win. After all was said and done, Norris did the impossible and beat the odds.

For Leonard, if you're a fan of his all you can do is forgive him for losing and say something like "That's okay because he had nothing left" which doesn't make sense because Leonard challenged Norris with Norris' title at stake and means Leonard wasn't forced into fighting-he wanted to fight him because he evaluated himself and believed his press clippings-all false i might add.

I had seen Terry in two fights (Jackson and Mugabi) and knew Leonard was going to be in serious trouble. I said Leonard has never faced a fighter like Norris, that he should stick to picking his fights more careully and stay away from fighters like Nunn and Norris.

I told people if this guy (Leonard) is half the fighter the media and all his fans are saying then he should have no problem and have him out of there in five rounds. I knew Leonard could not win or come close to one because he is not of the high caliber stock I see in other fighters.

I'm not badmouthing the guy but when a fighter is as highly touted as Sugar Ray Leonard and is regularly labelled as "a legend" by the press, you had better perform like one. When you are a 3-1 favorite, you perform like one (Unless you're overrated like Leonard)

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 16 Feb 2008, 11:51

elmersalsa wrote:Prime for prime, if Simon Brown knocked Norris out in 4, what I would I expect with someone as formidable as Leonard. Leonard stops him in 7 rounds.

Leonard at 154lbs was not as good as when he was at 147lbs. But still, too much class for a guy like Terry Norris in their primes.

Except for one problem: Leonard isnt Simon Brown. Simon was much more powerful and built for taking charge. Leonard isn't. he is a boxer and must box and counter and look for openings. That is why Norris will beat him every time.

And let us not forget how easily Norris won his rematch with Brown-the best boxing exhibition since Pep defeated Saddler. That is the forgotten fight for some reason.

I keep having this recurring dream. It goes like this: Leonard keeps beating Duran but keeps losing to Norris. They have yet another fight and Leonard says "This time I'm ready for him". But at the end of each fight, he just can never do enough to win and Norris gets the nod again!

How frustrating is that?!? I think this happens something like four times.

I'm not knocking Leonard. He is a nice fighter who does well when the competition is physically hampered in some way or with old shells, but he really doesn't belong in the ring with someone like Norris.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 16 Feb 2008, 13:39

Surely the middelweights would have provided him the kind of experience you need when facing a Terry Norris. There is a huge difference between a lubering lummox in Donny Lalonde and slick speedsters like Norris. Instead, leonard showed woefully unprepared, like someone who stood up the night before a fianl exam and failed utterly.

Norris, is a great success story and one of the better fighters over the last 3 decades, Terry holds a brialliant win over SRL. I would call it a win and more than a win. After all was said and done, Norris did the impossible and beat the odds.

You are a mush brain, in their primes fighting against each other SRL cleans his clock. The old washed up SRL got beat by him, so what. SRL was years past his best, and Norris was at his peak. Kudos to Norris.....but Norris was not on the same level as SRL when Leonard was in his prime. That is just the way it was and is.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 16 Feb 2008, 13:50

"...& let us not forget how easily Norris won his rematch with Brown-the best boxing exhibition since Pep defeated Saddler..." - Elton John

"You are a mush brain..." - Ringsider

Some great one-liners along the way as Elton once again fearlessly takes up the sword & shield for Norris in the fantastic make-believe world of Terry beats a prime Ray-ville, but these two are my favourites so far

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 16 Feb 2008, 14:36

I'm not knocking Leonard. He is a nice fighter who does well when the competition is physically hampered in some way or with old shells, but he really doesn't belong in the ring with someone like Norris.

Another classic delusion.

You put Tommy Hearns in there from 1980-81 at welterweight vs Norris. Terry Norris is carried out in a body bag.

Leonard only beat Hearns because Hearns was "an old shell" at the time of the fight.

I guess Tommy peaked at about 12 years old then.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 16 Feb 2008, 18:33

ringsider wrote:
Surely the middelweights would have provided him the kind of experience you need when facing a Terry Norris. There is a huge difference between a lubering lummox in Donny Lalonde and slick speedsters like Norris. Instead, leonard showed woefully unprepared, like someone who stood up the night before a fianl exam and failed utterly.

Norris, is a great success story and one of the better fighters over the last 3 decades, Terry holds a brialliant win over SRL. I would call it a win and more than a win. After all was said and done, Norris did the impossible and beat the odds.
You are a mush brain, in their primes fighting against each other SRL cleans his clock. The old washed up SRL got beat by him, so what. SRL was years past his best, and Norris was at his peak. Kudos to Norris.....but Norris was not on the same level as SRL when Leonard was in his prime. That is just the way it was and is.

You mean Leonard wasn't on the same level as Norris. The fight proves that and that's just the way it is!

you got any proof to the contrary? You don't and I have: he won the fight so you have to shut the fornicate up! You know the loser of a fight can never say shit and has to hang his head down and MUST stay out of public view like Leonard did for 6 years because they know that every time they come out into the open that people are saying "Look, there goes that loser again. He lost badly to that kid Norris"

Face it, that's just the way it was and still is. Life's a bitch for losers isn't it? They can't brag about winning so they have to say things like "If only I were younger he wouldn't have carried my jock strap"

And besides, Leonard was favored 3-1 to win-and he still couldn't beat him so that's what. He had his chance and was outclassed because Terry was smarter, faster, tougher, and had the better chin. leonard? He totally sucked! He couldn't lay a glove on my man who I picked by the way, to beat the hands off the coddled Leonard.

Leonard could never hurt Terry Norris. Terry could hurt Leonard anytime he wanted. In fact, he was hurting him in every round. Even in the 1st round he hurt Ray Leonard with a body shot that sent Ray back into the ropes. On the few times Leonard was able to land his best shot, Terry didnt blink and brushed it off like a mild spring rain.

Even if leonard were 21 and Terry were 21 Terry would still hurt him and beat him because ever since I could remember, Ray has been getting hurt in fights. The Youtube coverage of Marcos Geraldo pasting Leonard and sending him back on his heels shows that he really could never take a punch quite like the greats. He certainly doesnt belong with greats like Arguello, Ali, Monzon, hagler, Norris, or Jones. I'm not ever sure he belongs in the company of DLH or PBF.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 16 Feb 2008, 18:39

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"...& let us not forget how easily Norris won his rematch with Brown-the best boxing exhibition since Pep defeated Saddler..." - Elton John

"You are a mush brain..." - Ringsider

Some great one-liners along the way as Elton once again fearlessly takes up the sword & shield for Norris in the fantastic make-believe world of Terry beats a prime Ray-ville, but these two are my favourites so far

And why should I not? Terry won in overwhelming fashion and Ray lost in terrific fashion. The fact is, Ray has always had problems with movers-even mediocre ones like Larry Bonds so that's how I know Terry would win in effortless fashion. Face the facts: Leonard doesn't have one win over Norris he can point to. And what's worse, he can't show his skeptics that his loss was at least close. But cheer up Irene. I still think Ray can beat Duran anytime of the week. :P

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 16 Feb 2008, 19:03

ringsider wrote:
I'm not knocking Leonard. He is a nice fighter who does well when the competition is physically hampered in some way or with old shells, but he really doesn't belong in the ring with someone like Norris.
Another classic delusion.

You put Tommy Hearns in there from 1980-81 at welterweight vs Norris. Terry Norris is carried out in a body bag. Leonard only beat Hearns because Hearns was "an old shell" at the time of the fight. I guess Tommy peaked at about 12 years old then.

Blah blah blah!! Same old boring shit coming from leonard groupies. Hey groupie, make up some new excuses will you.

Who was Tommy Hearns then anyways? A fighter with 3 defenses of a WBA title vs. subpar competition. Really, what had he done as champion? Name it Ringworm-what did he do? he was barely champion (half champ) for a year. That never made anyone a great champion.

You want me to believe that Tommy was a great champion with 3 defenses in one year's time? Three defenses and even four was the norm for that time. I've even seen modern day champions make five defenses in one year. Tommy only made three.

Luis Primera? The name doesnt come to mind. he was just another poorly trained fighter from SA. Ditto with Baez who got a last minute top ten ranking from the WBA

What a joke!

Randy Shields is among the worst looking challengers ever seen in any division! How did he even qualify for a title shot? Randy ranks with the Chuck Wepners of the world. In fact, Tommy really fought no one up to that point excpet for Pipino. That was it-there was no one else. The one good fighter he got in with, Harold Weston, was beating the pants off him until Tommy thumbed him in the eye and ended his career.

Emmanel Steward, who couldn't even get his man's weight right for the contest, thinks for some reason Tommy can go prime time in a unification match with pretty boy Leonard. Predictably, Tommy lost the fight. I could have told you that! He looked like a toothpick with ribs

How anyone can compare a starving kid with the likes of Terry Norris is beyong me. It looked like a stiff breeze would knock Tommy over.

In fact, Tommy didnt reach his prime until he faced Duran, Hagler, and Shuler. Tommy looked much stronger and healthier. You're not going to find anyone telling you that Tommy was prime at 22. That's like saying Joe Louis was at his best for the 1st Schmeling fight. That wasn't until three years later for the rematch. Age 25 is about right for Tommy.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 16 Feb 2008, 20:25

Elton John wrote:
ringsider wrote:
I'm not knocking Leonard. He is a nice fighter who does well when the competition is physically hampered in some way or with old shells, but he really doesn't belong in the ring with someone like Norris.
Another classic delusion.

You put Tommy Hearns in there from 1980-81 at welterweight vs Norris. Terry Norris is carried out in a body bag. Leonard only beat Hearns because Hearns was "an old shell" at the time of the fight. I guess Tommy peaked at about 12 years old then.
Blah blah blah!! Same old boring shit coming from leonard groupies. Hey groupie, make up some new excuses will you.

Who was Tommy Hearns then anyways? A fighter with 3 defenses of a WBA title vs. subpar competition. Really, what had he done as champion? Name it Ringworm-what did he do? he was barely champion (half champ) for a year. That never made anyone a great champion.

You want me to believe that Tommy was a great champion with 3 defenses in one year's time? Three defenses and even four was the norm for that time. I've even seen modern day champions make five defenses in one year. Tommy only made three.

Luis Primera? The name doesnt come to mind. he was just another poorly trained fighter from SA. Ditto with Baez who got a last minute top ten ranking from the WBA What a joke!

Randy Shields is among the worst looking challengers ever seen in any division! How did he even qualify for a title shot? Randy ranks with the Chuck Wepners of the world. In fact, Tommy really fought no one up to that point excpet for Pipino. That was it-there was no one else. The one good fighter he got in with, Harold Weston, was beating the pants off him until Tommy thumbed him in the eye and ended his career.

Emmanel Steward, who couldn't even get his man's weight right for the contest, thinks for some reason Tommy can go prime time in a unification match with pretty boy Leonard. Predictably, Tommy lost the fight. I could have told you that! He looked like a toothpick with ribs How anyone can compare a starving kid with the likes of Terry Norris is beyong me. It looked like a stiff breeze would knock Tommy over.

In fact, Tommy didnt reach his prime until he faced Duran, Hagler, and Shuler. Tommy looked much stronger and healthier. You're not going to find anyone telling you that Tommy was prime at 22. That's like saying Joe Louis was at his best for the 1st Schmeling fight. That wasn't until three years later for the rematch. Age 25 is about right for Tommy.

Boy I must have touched a nerve there. Terry Norris never beat anyone who was anybody.......except a washed up gone down the road SRL. Big whoop....Norris doesn't beat Ray in his prime. He doesn't last 6 rounds with "Tooth Pick Tommy Hearns". Norris was a nobody.....who never was anybody. He was a champion at a time when there were no WW of mention. Heck he was beaten by Dana Rosenblatt!!! He won't make the HOF and will merely be a hero to those who really don't know boxing.