Philly & Eastern Seaboard Fighters

[kikibalt]

Wes Mouzon

[granberry]

Wes Mouzon

Longtime good friend of mine.

Boxed a draw with Ike Williams when he was 17 years old.

Knocked out lightweight champion Bob Montgomery in two rounds ( non-title fight ) when he was 18 tears old.

Had to retire with an eye injury when he was 19 years old---in 1946.

Georgie Benton said to me, "Wes had a style people liked to watch."

Was tall, a muderous puncher.

His trainer was Gene Buffalo, a protege of Jack Blackburn.

Grew several more inches after he retired.

Later trained Dwight Braxton.

[Expug]

Another one of my favorite boxing topics.
Along with the West Coast history.
I really enjoy fearing about those seventies middles from Philly.
Bad Bennie Briscoe
Cyclone Hart
Willie The Worm Monroe
Bobby Boogaloo Watts
Kitten Hayward
That must have been a glorious time in Philly.
I would have loved to have been around some of those famous gym wars Ive heard about!

[Lausse]

Granberry,

How did Mouzon`s eye injury occur?

[granberry]

Granberry,

How did Mouzon`s eye injury occur?

As a result of his 2-round KO of Bob Montgomery in a non-title fight when he was 18 years old,

Mouzon got a title fight with Montgomery. Mouzon was the betting favorite.

Montgomery stopped Mouzon in 8 rounds.

After the fight in the dressing room Mouzon complained about his eye.

It turned out he had a detached retina, lost his sight in that eye, and never fought again.

He was bitter for a long while, went to NY and worked as silk spotter (cleaning stains) in dry cleaning places.
He also went to school in the evenings to get his high school diploma.
(He had quit school to box).

Many years later he came back to Philly and started training fighters, including Dwight Braxton, who Mouzon took from a complete novice to the terrific fighter he became.

Mouzon was so precocious as a fighter at such a young age, that when he fought Bob Montgomery for the title, one of Mouzon's managers was Bob Montgomery's brother---who had to give up his share of Mouzon before the fight took place. When he became a partner in Mouzon's management, Montgomery's brother never expected Mouzon would progress so fast.

Mouzon would have been a champion almost for sure if not for the bad luck he had.
"Don't think Mouzon isn't a great fighter," Bob Montgomery said after their title fight. "He might be a champion someday."

But there was no someday for Wes. That was his last fight---at age nineteen.

He would certainly have grown into a welterweight with his height if he had been able to keep on fighting.

He told me that he used to see Bob Montgomery around Philadelphia at fight cards in those later years--that Montgomery ran a bar in Philly at that time.

One night a man fell down the steps after a fight card at the Philly Spectrum and was taken away in an ambulance. Mouzon later told me it was Montgomery.

Mouzon told me a lot about how Gene Buffalo (Jack Blackburn's protege as a trainer) trained him, spefically about specifics to do with punching, about his opponents. He thought, among others he fought, that Alli Stolz was an excellent fighter, "very experienced."

[Expug]

Granberry,

How did Mouzon`s eye injury occur?

As a result of his 2-round KO of Bob Montgomery in a non-title fight when he was 18 years old,

Mouzon got a title fight with montgomery. Mouzon was the betting favorite.

Montgomery stopped Mouzon in 8 rounds.

After the fight in the dressing room Mouzon complained about his eye.

It turned out he had a detached retina, could not see out of that eye, and never fought again.

He was bitter for a long while, went to NY and worked as silk spotter (cleaning stains) in dry cleaning places.
He also went to school in the evenings to get his high school diploma.
(He had quit school to box).

Many years later he came back to Philly and started training fighters, including Dwight Braxton, who Mouzon took from a complete novice to the terrific fighter he became.

Mouzon was so precocious as a fighter at such a young age, that when he fought Bob Montgomery for the title, one of Mouzon's managers was Bob Montgomery's brother---who had to give up his share of Mouzon before the fight took place.

Mouzon would have been a champion almost for sure if not for the bad luck he had.
After the title fight he lost to Montgomery, Montgomery said of Mouzon, "He's sure to be a champion someday."

But there was no someday for Wes, as that was his last fight---at age nineteen.

He would certainly have grown into a welterweight with his height if he had been able to keep on fighting.

he told me that he used to see Bob Montgomery around Philadelphia at fight cards in those later years--that Montgomery ran a bar in Philly.

One night a man fell down the steps after a fight card at the Philly Spectrum and was taken away in an ambulance. Mouzon later told me it was Montgomery.

Moouzon told me a lot about how Gene Buffalo (Jack Blackburn's protege as a trainer) trained him, about his opponents. He thought, among others he fought, that Leo Rodak was an excellent fighter, "very experienced."

Thanks for that Gran.
Ive always been curious about Mouzon.
I didnt know much about him other than he was a heckuva fighter with an excellent reputation as a trainer.

[Expug]

I looked at his record.
Wow, he jumped in there and went ten rounds with Ike Williams when he was only 18 years old.
Ike was a terror.
Wes must have been something special.
Its too bad what happened with his eye.

[granberry]

I looked at his record.
Wow, he jumped in there and went ten rounds with Ike Williams when he was only 18 years old.
Ike was a terror.
Wes must have been something special.
Its too bad what happened with his eye.

Any other lightweight that age would have been eaten alive by Ike Williams.

As far as I can tell, there never was another lightweight so precocious at such a young age.

Certainly not Joe Gans, Benny Leonard--- who both developed into their top level only at a much later age.

[Lausse]

Granberry,

How did Mouzon`s eye injury occur?

As a result of his 2-round KO of Bob Montgomery in a non-title fight when he was 18 years old,

Mouzon got a title fight with Montgomery. Mouzon was the betting favorite.

Montgomery stopped Mouzon in 8 rounds.

After the fight in the dressing room Mouzon complained about his eye.

It turned out he had a detached retina, lost his sight in that eye, and never fought again.

He was bitter for a long while, went to NY and worked as silk spotter (cleaning stains) in dry cleaning places.
He also went to school in the evenings to get his high school diploma.
(He had quit school to box).

Many years later he came back to Philly and started training fighters, including Dwight Braxton, who Mouzon took from a complete novice to the terrific fighter he became.

Mouzon was so precocious as a fighter at such a young age, that when he fought Bob Montgomery for the title, one of Mouzon's managers was Bob Montgomery's brother---who had to give up his share of Mouzon before the fight took place. When he became a partner in Mouzon's management, Montgomery's brother never expected Mouzon would progress so fast.

Mouzon would have been a champion almost for sure if not for the bad luck he had.
"Don't think Mouzon isn't a great fighter," Bob Montgomery said after their title fight. "He might be a champion someday."

But there was no someday for Wes. That was his last fight---at age nineteen.

He would certainly have grown into a welterweight with his height if he had been able to keep on fighting.

He told me that he used to see Bob Montgomery around Philadelphia at fight cards in those later years--that Montgomery ran a bar in Philly at that time.

One night a man fell down the steps after a fight card at the Philly Spectrum and was taken away in an ambulance. Mouzon later told me it was Montgomery.

Mouzon told me a lot about how Gene Buffalo (Jack Blackburn's protege as a trainer) trained him, spefically about specifics to do with punching, about his opponents. He thought, among others he fought, that Alli Stolz was an excellent fighter, "very experienced."

Thank you Granberry, seems like Mouzon definately had the goods to become champ unfortunately his eye injury cost himthe opportunity to make it to the top. Nevertheless, holding the great Ike Williams to a draw at 18 and knocking out the Bobcat a year later are great accomplishments and definately somthing to be proud of. On another note do you know what Jerry Martin is up to these days and he is holding up? What did he do after hanging up the gloves? And do you have any interesting storys to share about Matthew Saad? I heard his manager used to make him spar with heavyweights, is this true?

[kikibalt]

Rocky Castellani

[Rick Farris]

Glad to discover this thread. I've always enjoyed learning about Philly fighters. Guys like George Benton, Harold Johnson, "Kitten" Hayward, Bennie Briscoe, Gypsy Joe Harris, and others. Any of those "gym war" stories that are shared here will be appreciated.

What were the main gyms in Philly? I know that Joe Frazier has had a gym, I believe in South Philly? However, during the years of Benton, Harold Johnson, etc. what was the hot gym in Philly, and who was training there? Who were the charactors, etc.? I really want to know.

Granberry, you obviously have a great deal of Philly boxing knowledge, anything you can share would be great.


-Rick Farris

[kikibalt]

Charley Scott

[Expug]

Glad to discover this thread. I've always enjoyed learning about Philly fighters. Guys like George Benton, Harold Johnson, "Kitten" Hayward, Bennie Briscoe, Gypsy Joe Harris, and others. Any of those "gym war" stories that are shared here will be appreciated.

What were the main gyms in Philly? I know that Joe Frazier has had a gym, I believe in South Philly? However, during the years of Benton, Harold Johnson, etc. what was the hot gym in Philly, and who was training there? Who were the charactors, etc.? I really want to know.

Granberry, you obviously have a great deal of Philly boxing knowledge, anything you can share would be great.


-Rick Farris

Absolutely.
I second that.
I also read somewhere that Cyclone Hart kod Tim Witherspoon in the gym.
I wonder if that happened or not.
Anyone hear anything about this one?

[dagosd2000]

Here's one for Granberry. Knew a middle weight fighter in San Diego named David Love. Tall,lanky,light skinned African/American kid. A curious career. KO'd Monroe in Philly. KO'd Watts. Decisioned Briscoe in Philly. Beat Marcos Geraldo twice when he was still good,yet lost to a lot of mediocre fighters in the area. Did you see any of those fights I mentioned in Philly? I see David once in a while here,but he doesn't communicate well.

[granberry]

. On another note do you know what Jerry Martin is up to these days and he is holding up? What did he do after hanging up the gloves? And do you have any interesting storys to share about Matthew Saad? I heard his manager used to make him spar with heavyweights, is this true?

I lost track of Martin.

The last I heard of him was when Wesley Mouzon was training some fighters at a gym in Philly after Joe Frazier raised his rates so high that everybody left his gym (which was what Frazier wanted, I guess).

Wes said he saw Jerry Martin come by his gym, that Martin was talking about training a younger fighter, that "Jerry looked good." Meaning real healthy.

I heard about the time Jerry Martin was walking alone down a long hallway in Atlantic City,
when coming from the other direction was Larry Hazzard, the so-called referee who had virtually destroyed legimate boxing with his biased antics.

Hazzard, of course, had done everything he could to make sure Martin did not win his title fight with Matt Franklin (Sadd Muhammed).
I won't go into every detail here, but if you get the film, notice that every time Matt landed was just after Hazzard had come up behind Martin and suddenly yelled in his ear.

(Of course the basic rule of refereeing is that a referee places himself so that BOTH fighters can SEE him, HEAR him, and FEEL him).
Watch Hazzard come up behind designated loser Vonzell Johnson in his title fight with Michael Spinks and touch him on the back/behind and go flying away. Vonzell Johnson stepped back, thinking Hazzard had touched both fighters with the signal to break a clinch--stepping back right into the comfortable punching range of Spinks, who hit him and knocked him down (since Spinks could see Hazzard coming up behind Vonzell) and Hazzard ran in with a smile and stopped the fight.

Hazzard specialized in screaming and screaming at the designated loser to pull out his attention.
Hazzard did that over and over to Jerry Martin in the Matt Franklin title fight. In confusion, Martin would stop fighting and Matt would immediately hit him. It was like a tag team arrangement between Hazzard and Franklin.
But Martin's chin was so good that that happened over and over again with Martin staying up.

As I was saying, sometime after that fight Martin was walking alone in a deserted hallway in an Atlantic City establishment and who comes the other way, walking all alone, but Hazzard.

As Hazzard walked by Martin, Hazzard's body and face vibrated and shook all over with fear, like strong electricity was running through his body.

Apparently he knew what he deserved from Martin.

Murad Muhammed, a promoter at the time, had a round baby face like a child, but various people commented "Don't be fooled. Don't be fooled."
Like Don King, baby-faced Murad had been in prison for murder.

Matt Franklin (Matthew Saad Muhammed) ---it sure is TIRESOME to keep track of these double names---

was a very healthy looking guy, strongly built.

After the second Braxton (please excuse if I don't have the energy to type his second name) Franklin title fight,
Braxton's trainer Wes Mouzon was talking to me about Franklin and said, "You know, he's really a nice guy."
Which I thought was a funny thing for a trainer to say whose fighter had just fought the guy. But Matt had a likable nature.

Lots of light heavies spar with heavies, so that is not that unusual.

Franklin took a tremendous physical beating from Jerry Martin in their title fight, since Matt spent much of the fight with his back on the ropes while Martin pounded away at him--a very stupid thing to do, since Martin punched like a heavyweight.

After the fight, where Hazzard pulled his stunts to make sure Martin didn't take the title,
that very same evening I talked to Martin and he said with the greatest satisfaction I have ever heard in a human's voice,
"They did what they did, but Matt took such a beating from me that he will never win another fight."

TAKE A LOOK at Franklin's record after his fight with Martin--
and you will see what Martin said turned out to be true.

I remember when Braxton (who was a very well schooled fighter by Mouzon) gave Matt a relentless beating in their first title fight.
Stooge "referee" Arthur Merchante tried the same Hazzard trick of harrassing and screaming at Dwight for imaginary 'infractions,' but Dwight was brighter than Martin and just grinned at Merchante through his mouthpiece, and went on beating Franklin.

Finally Matt was getting beaten to a pulp on the ropes by Braxton, with Merchante standing by with no intention of stopping the fight in Braxton's favor

when the only non-muslim in Franklin's corner, longtime Philly boxing cornerman Adolph Ritocco (I think) climbed into the ring to stop the fight---with the muslims in Franklin's corner pulling at him and trying to stop him from getting in the ring.

Stooge referee Merchante saw Franklin's cornerman coming forward to stop the fight, and realizing he would look like a total fool for standing by and not stopping what was by that time a total slaughter, Merchante stepped forward and stopped the fight in a stage manner, as if the idea to stop it were his own.
I give credit to Mouzon there for preparing his fighter Braxton to handle the "refereeing" tactics used against the designated loser.

Notice Merchante in the Quarry-Shavers fight. Shavers comes out and throws some dangerous looking punches. Merchante stops the action and screams and screams at Shavers and berates him, apparently for trying to hit Quarry. Shavers, who wasn't too bright, gets confused and stops fighting. Quarry takes his cue, and starts hitting Shavers.

Finally Quarry takes Shavers by the shoulders and throws him to the canvas.

As Shavers falls, Merchante KICKS HIM IN THE HEAD. I know you won't believe that, but that is what happened.
Shavers gets up, throws a powerful body shot which drives Quarry backwards several steps---and Merchante comes over and stops the fight in Quarry's favor.

I repeat---just after Shavers drove Quarry backwards with a powerful body punch, Merchante stops the fight.

Mouzon and his fighter Braxton were the only ones to handle the referee harrassment of the designated loser going on so rabidly at that time.

There are a lot of things I won't write here.

But for a glimmer, what about the (unnamed) referee getting paid off in $100 bills in the dressing room after the fight by the winning fighter's manager?
Right in front of the sparring partners standing there waiting to get paid.
The referee came first.
And got a lot more than they did.


What about the fighter who often got beaten up, but then came on with a surge to win once his opponents had used up a lot of their strength, because of a "new" mouthpiece he got beginning with those later rounds.

I loved boxing, and was always eager to learn more and more about it.
By that I mean from a technical point of view--what the very best did very specifically.

I am sorry that in the course of devouring such info as I could get at,
I couldn't avoid coming across an equal amount of the sicko crap that surrounds the subject.

Joe Holman, who I knew when he was in his eighties, had been a pr man for Mike Jacobs starting with the Joe Louis-Max Baer fight. He had been around boxing for 60 years, and he said to me once,

"Boxing brings out the worst in people."

He had also been a pr man for other sports over those many decades.

And that was his observation.

He WAS NOT referring to the fighters themselves.

He was referring to what went on AROUND the fighters.

Nobody ever said anything more true.

[Lausse]

. On another note do you know what Jerry Martin is up to these days and he is holding up? What did he do after hanging up the gloves? And do you have any interesting storys to share about Matthew Saad? I heard his manager used to make him spar with heavyweights, is this true?

I lost track of Martin.

The last I heard of him was when Wesley Mouzon was training some fighters at a gym in Philly after Joe Frazier raised his rates so high that everybody left his gym (which was what Frazier wanted, I guess).

Wes said he saw Jerry Martin come by his gym, that Martin was talking about training a younger fighter, that "Jerry looked good." Meaning real healthy.

I heard about the time Jerry Martin was walking alone down a long hallway in Atlantic City,
when coming from the other direction was Larry Hazzard, the so-called referee who had virtually destroyed legimate boxing with his biased antics.

Hazzard, of course, had done everything he could to make sure Martin did not win his title fight with Matt Franklin (Sadd Muhammed).
I won't go into every detail here, but if you get the film, notice that every time Matt landed was just after Hazzard had come up behind Martin and suddenly yelled in his ear.

(Of course the basic rule of refereeing is that a referee places himself so that BOTH fighters can SEE him, HEAR him, and FEEL him).
Watch Hazzard come up behind designated loser Vonzell Johnson in his title fight with Michael Spinks and touch him on the back/behind and go flying away. Vonzell Johnson stepped back, thinking Hazzard had touched both fighters with the signal to break a clinch--stepping back right into the comfortable punching range of Spinks, who hit him and knocked him down (since Spinks could see Hazzard coming up behind Vonzell) and Hazzard ran in with a smile and stopped the fight.

Hazzard specialized in screaming and screaming at the designated loser to pull out his attention.
Hazzard did that over and over to Jerry Martin in the Matt Franklin title fight. In confusion, Martin would stop fighting and Matt would immediately hit him. It was like a tag team arrangement between Hazzard and Franklin.
But Martin's chin was so good that that happened over and over again with Martin staying up.

As I was saying, sometime after that fight Martin was walking alone in a deserted hallway in an Atlantic City establishment and who comes the other way, walking all alone, but Hazzard.

As Hazzard walked by Martin, Hazzard's body and face vibrated and shook all over with fear, like strong electricity was running through his body.

Apparently he knew what he deserved from Martin.

Murad Muhammed, a promoter at the time, had a round baby face like a child, but various people commented "Don't be fooled. Don't be fooled."
Like Don King, baby-faced Murad had been in prison for murder.

Matt Franklin (Matthew Saad Muhammed) ---it sure is TIRESOME to keep track of these double names---

was a very healthy looking guy, strongly built.

After the second Braxton (please excuse if I don't have the energy to type his second name) Franklin title fight,
Braxton's trainer Wes Mouzon was talking to me about Franklin and said, "You know, he's really a nice guy."
Which I thought was a funny thing for a trainer to say whose fighter had just fought the guy. But Matt had a likable nature.

Lots of light heavies spar with heavies, so that is not that unusual.

Franklin took a tremendous physical beating from Jerry Martin in their title fight, since Matt spent much of the fight with his back on the ropes while Martin pounded away at him--a very stupid thing to do, since Martin punched like a heavyweight.

After the fight, where Hazzard pulled his stunts to make sure Martin didn't take the title,
that very same evening I talked to Martin and he said with the greatest satisfaction I have ever heard in a human's voice,
"They did what they did, but Matt took such a beating from me that he will never win another fight."

TAKE A LOOK at Franklin's record after his fight with Martin--
and you will see what Martin said turned out to be true.

I remember when Braxton (who was a very well schooled fighter by Mouzon) gave Matt a relentless beating in their first title fight.
Stooge "referee" Arthur Merchante tried the same Hazzard trick of harrassing and screaming at Dwight for imaginary 'infractions,' but Dwight was brighter than Martin and just grinned at Merchante through his mouthpiece, and went on beating Franklin.

Finally Matt was getting beaten to a pulp on the ropes by Braxton, with Merchante standing by with no intention of stopping the fight in Braxton's favor

when the only non-muslim in Franklin's corner, longtime Philly boxing cornerman Adolph Ritocco (I think) climbed into the ring to stop the fight---with the muslims in Franklin's corner pulling at him and trying to stop him from getting in the ring.

Stooge referee Merchante saw Franklin's cornerman coming forward to stop the fight, and realizing he would look like a total fool for standing by and not stopping what was by that time a total slaughter, Merchante stepped forward and stopped the fight in a stage manner, as if the idea to stop it were his own.
I give credit to Mouzon there for preparing his fighter Braxton to handle the "refereeing" tactics used against the designated loser.

Notice Merchante in the Quarry-Shavers fight. Shavers comes out and throws some dangerous looking punches. Merchante stops the action and screams and screams at Shavers and berates him, apparently for trying to hit Quarry. Shavers, who wasn't too bright, gets confused and stops fighting. Quarry takes his cue, and starts hitting Shavers.

Finally Quarry takes Shavers by the shoulders and throws him to the canvas.

As Shavers falls, Merchante KICKS HIM IN THE HEAD. I know you won't believe that, but that is what happened.
Shavers gets up, throws a powerful body shot which drives Quarry backwards several steps---and Merchante comes over and stops the fight in Quarry's favor.

I repeat---just after Shavers drove Quarry backwards with a powerful body punch, Merchante stops the fight.

Mouzon and his fighter Braxton were the only ones to handle the referee harrassment of the designated loser going on so rabidly at that time.

There are a lot of things I won't write here.

But for a glimmer, what about the (unnamed) referee getting paid off in $100 bills in the dressing room after the fight by the winning fighter's manager?
Right in front of the sparring partners standing there waiting to get paid.
The referee came first.
And got a lot more than they did.


What about the fighter who often got beaten up, but then came on with a surge to win once his opponents had used up a lot of their strength, because of a "new" mouthpiece he got beginning with those later rounds.

I loved boxing, and was always eager to learn more and more about it.
By that I mean from a technical point of view--what the very best did very specifically.

I am sorry that in the course of devouring such info as I could get at,
I couldn't avoid coming across an equal amount of the sicko crap that surrounds the subject.

Joe Holman, who I knew when he was in his eighties, had been a pr man for Mike Jacobs starting with the Joe Louis-Max Baer fight. He had been around boxing for 60 years, and he said to me once,

"Boxing brings out the worst in people."

He had also been a pr man for other sports over those many decades.

And that was his observation.

He WAS NOT referring to the fighters themselves.

He was referring to what went on AROUND the fighters.

Nobody ever said anything more true.

Granberry,

Thank you for sharing all that with me and the rest of the guys here, some of the antics that took place regarding the reffereeing in certain bouts is only the tip of the iceberg I`m sure... I can only imagine how often such disgusting shenanigans took place.

On another note it is nice to hear how Martin wasn`t bitter about the way he was treated in the Saad fight, lord knows he had every reason to be. And I wholeheartedly agree with what Joe Holman had to say, truer words have never been spoken indeed. Thanks again for the story Granberry, much appreciated.

[kikibalt]

Ike Williams, Binkly Palermo & Hermen Taylor

[kikibalt]

Ike Williams fought and beat Enrique Bolanos in the first fight I seen live,
I was ten years old when my dad took me to the ball park to see that fight in 1946.

[granberry]

Ike Williams, Binkly Palermo & Hermen Taylor

The two on the right look like two nice, soft-hearted guys, don't they?

[granberry]

Ike Williams, Blinky Palermo & Herman Taylor

Taylor is telling Ike Williams that they are going to give him a brand new twenty dollar bill for defending his title in a 15-round fight.

Ike looks excited, doesn't he.

[granberry]

Here's one for Granberry. Knew a middle weight fighter in San Diego named David Love. Tall,lanky,light skinned African/American kid. A curious career. KO'd Monroe in Philly. KO'd Watts. Decisioned Briscoe in Philly. Beat Marcos Geraldo twice when he was still good,yet lost to a lot of mediocre fighters in the area. Did you see any of those fights I mentioned in Philly? I see David once in a while here,but he doesn't communicate well.

He was a tall middleweight (6').

I looked up his record.

Briscoe was completely shot when he fought Love.

But Monroe and Watts were not.

[dagosd2000]

Here's one for Granberry. Knew a middle weight fighter in San Diego named David Love. Tall,lanky,light skinned African/American kid. A curious career. KO'd Monroe in Philly. KO'd Watts. Decisioned Briscoe in Philly. Beat Marcos Geraldo twice when he was still good,yet lost to a lot of mediocre fighters in the area. Did you see any of those fights I mentioned in Philly? I see David once in a while here,but he doesn't communicate well.

He was a tall middleweight (6').

I looked up his record.

Briscoe was completely shot when he fought Love.

But Monroe and Watts were not.

Thanks for getting back. I figured as much for Briscoe. Love told me he had a record of 34 wins and 2 losses not to long ago. His eyes were rolling around when he was talking. I didn't want answer to the contrary.

[granberry]

Here's one for Granberry. Knew a middle weight fighter in San Diego named David Love. Tall,lanky,light skinned African/American kid. A curious career. KO'd Monroe in Philly. KO'd Watts. Decisioned Briscoe in Philly. Beat Marcos Geraldo twice when he was still good,yet lost to a lot of mediocre fighters in the area. Did you see any of those fights I mentioned in Philly? I see David once in a while here,but he doesn't communicate well.

He was a tall middleweight (6').

I looked up his record.

Briscoe was completely shot when he fought Love.

But Monroe and Watts were not.

Thanks for getting back. I figured as much for Briscoe. Love told me he had a record of 34 wins and 2 losses not to long ago. His eyes were rolling around when he was talking. I didn't want answer to the contrary.

I don't like to hear that.

He was obviously a good fighter, based on his record.

I somehow missed his career.

Willie Monroe was a fighter whose career went downhill once his manager-trainer Yank Durham died.
Monroe had a beauty of a left arm when he was good.

Left hook, left jab, left hook.

Monroe beat Hagler when he (Monroe) was good.
When he later lost to Hagler, who was unknown then,

I remember people telling me with a laugh or a smirk that Monroe had lost to someone named "Marvin."

I don't know why they thought the name Marvin was so funny for a fighter.

Monroe was nasty in workouts with younger fighters.

I remember one sparring session where Monroe was cutting up a young kid in a gym workout.

A lightheavyweight there who was standing next to the ring
was yelling at Monroe, "You're opening [cutting] him up. It's just a workout."

Monroe said threateningly, "Don't you interfere in my workout."

Jerry Martin told me the guy who was speaking up to protect the kid had fought John Conteh and Conteh had broken his hand in his fight with the guy. I just looked at Conteh's record on boxrec and I can't figure out who that would be.

Briscoe used to send younger guys who sparred with him to the hospital with bleeding kidneys from his body shots.

These guys were mean in the gym. No mercy at all.

[dagosd2000]

He was a tall middleweight (6').

I looked up his record.

Briscoe was completely shot when he fought Love.

But Monroe and Watts were not.

Thanks for getting back. I figured as much for Briscoe. Love told me he had a record of 34 wins and 2 losses not to long ago. His eyes were rolling around when he was talking. I didn't want answer to the contrary.

I don't like to hear that.

He was obviously a good fighter, based on his record.

I somehow missed his career.

Willie Monroe was a fighter whose career went downhill once his manager-trainer Yank Durham died.
Monroe had a beauty of a left arm when he was good.

Left hook, left jab, left hook.

Monroe beat Hagler when he (Monroe) was good.
When he later lost to Hagler, who was unknown then,

I remember people telling me with a laugh or a smirk that Monroe had lost to someone named "Marvin."

I don't know why they thought the name Marvin was so funny for a fighter.

Monroe was nasty in workouts with younger fighters.

I remember one sparring session where Monroe was cutting up a young kid in a gym workout.

A lightheavyweight there who was standing next to the ring
was yelling at Monroe, "You're opening [cutting] him up. It's just a workout."

Monroe said threateningly, "Don't you interfere in my workout."

Jerry Martin told me the guy who was speaking up to protect the kid had fought John Conteh and Conteh had broken his hand in his fight with the guy. I just looked at Conteh's record on boxrec and I can't figure out who that would be.

Briscoe used to send younger guys who sparred with him to the hospital with bleeding kidneys from his body shots.

These guys were mean in the gym. No mercy at all.

Love,I don't think took to training. He was kind of a showboat. He was tall and could punch,but when you'd think he was going to win,he'd lose. And when you'd think he was going to lose,he'd win. He used to work at a golf course in San Diego as a maintanence man. I don't see him any more.