Irish Travelers and boxing

ApolloCreed · Post by **ApolloCreed** » 09 Apr 2008, 03:57

Why is there such an affinity there, especially in the amateur ranks?

On the Irish team at the moment are the likes of the Joyces, JJ Nevin etc and I was loking at the juvenile results on the ABA website and there is nothing but Nevins, Joyces, Maughans, McDonagh's, Wards and Stokes', all hardcore traveller families.

Wonder why this is? I know that Billy Joe Saunders, top English amateur is also a traveller, and on this side of the pond Francie Barrett is probaby the most famous since Atlanta.

Michael Gomez is another example (I'm sure Peter McDonagh is too?)...

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 09 Apr 2008, 04:04

ITS IN THE BLOOD.

Just like, robbing, cheating and hoodwinking.

scrap iron · Post by **scrap iron** » 09 Apr 2008, 04:15

Ted wrote:ITS IN THE BLOOD.

Just like, robbing, cheating and hoodwinking.

Why is it the travelling community seems to be the only ethnic minority group left in this country where people think it's ok to slag them off?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 09 Apr 2008, 04:39

scrap iron wrote:
Ted wrote:ITS IN THE BLOOD.

Just like, robbing, cheating and hoodwinking.
Why is it the travelling community seems to be the only ethnic minority group left in this country where people think it's ok to slag them off?

Might have something to do with the way they do business, I know Ive seen it first hand!

scrap iron · Post by **scrap iron** » 09 Apr 2008, 04:58

Ted wrote:
scrap iron wrote:
Ted wrote:ITS IN THE BLOOD.

Just like, robbing, cheating and hoodwinking.
Why is it the travelling community seems to be the only ethnic minority group left in this country where people think it's ok to slag them off?
Might have something to do with the way they do business, I know Ive seen it first hand!

But you have to admit Ted, if that was said about the Black, Asian, Jewish etc community it would be unacceptable. It just seem strange in increasingly politically correct climate we live in that that people turn a blind eye to it. In Tony Docherty last fight he was being called pikey scum (or words to that effect). I wonder want they would have said if he was Asian or Black? Any racial chants at the last Amir Khan fight I was at and these people were rightly dealt with.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 09 Apr 2008, 05:00

scrap iron wrote:
Ted wrote:
scrap iron wrote: Why is it the travelling community seems to be the only ethnic minority group left in this country where people think it's ok to slag them off?
Might have something to do with the way they do business, I know Ive seen it first hand!
But you have to admit Ted, if that was said about the Black, Asian, Jewish etc community it would be unacceptable. It just seem strange in increasingly politically correct climate we live in that that people turn a blind eye to it. In Tony Docherty last fight he was being called pikey scum (or words to that effect). I wonder want they would have said if he was Asian or Black? Any racial chants at the last Amir Khan fight I was at and these people were rightly dealt with.

Fair enough! i dont mean to sound racist.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 09 Apr 2008, 05:01

scrap iron wrote:
Ted wrote:ITS IN THE BLOOD.

Just like, robbing, cheating and hoodwinking.
Why is it the travelling community seems to be the only ethnic minority group left in this country where people think it's ok to slag them off?

They aren't Roma are they? If you go to Russia or the Czech republic and see their gypsy community they are a diiferent ethnic group from the majority population.

Irish travellers are Irish and aren't a seperate ethnicity from regular Irish
people who they share identical DNA. People as you can see with their surnames such as Joyce, McDonagh etc

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 09 Apr 2008, 06:23

Its a cultural thing for the 'tinkers'.

They use bareknuckle boxing to settle disputes - most traveller children are hitting the heavy bag as soon as they can walk and it develops on from there..

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 09 Apr 2008, 06:27

Carlos I think its a tadge unfair to say all Irish have identical DNA.

Imagine the trouble they'd have on Crimewatch Ireland. Ican't imagine Nick Ros saying....

"Thanks to advances in DNA science we've managed to narrow it down to somebody who is Irish, so keep your eyes pealed for an Irishman, he could be the Peckham Pouncer".

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 09 Apr 2008, 07:00

Ted wrote:
scrap iron wrote:
Ted wrote: Might have something to do with the way they do business, I know Ive seen it first hand!
But you have to admit Ted, if that was said about the Black, Asian, Jewish etc community it would be unacceptable. It just seem strange in increasingly politically correct climate we live in that that people turn a blind eye to it. In Tony Docherty last fight he was being called pikey scum (or words to that effect). I wonder want they would have said if he was Asian or Black? Any racial chants at the last Amir Khan fight I was at and these people were rightly dealt with.
Fair enough! i dont mean to sound racist.

Bet your a Sun reader - They try to promote racial harmony and then slag travellers off. And if you didn't mean to sound racist how was your comment meant to sound? Ignorance is no excuse.

ApolloCreed · Post by **ApolloCreed** » 09 Apr 2008, 07:27

One decent reply. This board is gone to shit.

fatton · Post by **fatton** » 09 Apr 2008, 07:27

boxingchat wrote:Bet your a Sun reader - They try to promote racial harmony and then slag travellers off.

Ah....so that's what your bosses column is all about. Explains everything really.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 09 Apr 2008, 08:27

boxingchat wrote:
Ted wrote:
scrap iron wrote: But you have to admit Ted, if that was said about the Black, Asian, Jewish etc community it would be unacceptable. It just seem strange in increasingly politically correct climate we live in that that people turn a blind eye to it. In Tony Docherty last fight he was being called pikey scum (or words to that effect). I wonder want they would have said if he was Asian or Black? Any racial chants at the last Amir Khan fight I was at and these people were rightly dealt with.
Fair enough! i dont mean to sound racist.
Bet your a Sun reader - They try to promote racial harmony and then slag travellers off. And if you didn't mean to sound racist how was your comment meant to sound? Ignorance is no excuse.

Nah mate, i'm irish threfore i boycott the sun. the tits are good tho.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 09 Apr 2008, 08:35

teddy007 wrote:Gypsies are normally good amateurs but very very rarley do anything as pros.......strange but true. Obviously their is always an exception to the rule.

Its possible that they are still focused while amateurs, they are shielded by the authorities (schools/social workers etc) to some degree whilst still of school age and probably haven't yet got the pressures of marriage, being the head of their family and defending its name, bringing up nippers, earning etc etc but once they get married and leave school which is usually before the age a usual person would think of going pro then they get these pressures - that and a caravan/transient lifestyle isn't conducive to being a top level professional sportsman.

As for my experience with travellers - not good - possibly the worst you could imagine - I'll leave it at that.

p.s. they are a separate ethnic group to "settled" Irish people.

slapbangwhallop · Post by **slapbangwhallop** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:02

teddy007 wrote:
sligobhoy67 wrote:
teddy007 wrote:Gypsies are normally good amateurs but very very rarley do anything as pros.......strange but true. Obviously their is always an exception to the rule.
Its possible that they are still focused while amateurs, they are shielded by the authorities (schools/social workers etc) to some degree whilst still of school age and probably haven't yet got the pressures of marriage, being the head of their family and defending its name, bringing up nippers, earning etc etc but once they get married and leave school which is usually before the age a usual person would think of going pro then they get these pressures - that and a caravan/transient lifestyle isn't conducive to being a top level professional sportsman.

As for my experience with travellers - not good - possibly the worst you could imagine - I'll leave it at that.

p.s. they are a separate ethnic group to "settled" Irish people.

Very few gypsie actually travel around the country anymore. I think it has more to do with kids are normally a little bit scared of gypsies thats why they do so well, lots of kids are intimidated but when they get older they realise alot of gypsies cannot fight aswell as previously thought.

theres possibly an element of that at club level but I dont think the same could be said once they get to provincial and national level as the settled guys that reach that far wouldnt have that fear and would normal have beaten travellers either in there own club or an county level

ApolloCreed · Post by **ApolloCreed** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:28

Agree with most of those points. It's fascinating that they do so well in the amateur ranks then generally don't make an impact at pro level, but it makes perfect sense as you say SligoBhoy, living in a halting site or on the side of a road is not conducive to being a professional sportsman.

I suppose it is a tradition with them, and tradition is hugely important to Gypsies. It's like handball as well, generations of travellers play the game all over Ireland.

Maybe they get into those games because they're individual, so they don't have to be a team with settled people where they wouldnt be welcome/wouldnt want to be.

A lot of the reason why they don't go on to the pro ranks in my opinion is that there aren't as many of them at it, so the inter-clan rivalry is diluted.

They're all about oneupmanship, and all that matters to say a Nevin is succeeding ahead of a Joyce, whch is sad...

Anyway, who is the best ever (pro and amateur) do ya reckon?

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:34

The one that smashed my face in a pub in Forest Gate about 15years ago, he seemed to know his stuff.
That was a fun night out, couldn't work for a week after.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:46

Gary Cooper was a tough traveller from the New Forest in Hampshire, he won the British Light middle title, and lost in his first defense against Gary Stretch, but pushed the young Stretch all the way in a great fight.

Don't know what Gary is up to today, anyone know?

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:48

Old bones Ian wrote:
Don't know what Gary is up to today, anyone know?

Selling lucky heather in Lymington.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:54

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:
Don't know what Gary is up to today, anyone know?
Selling lucky heather in Lymington.

You wouldn't want to be cursed by him

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 09 Apr 2008, 09:57

Old bones Ian wrote:
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:
Don't know what Gary is up to today, anyone know?
Selling lucky heather in Lymington.
You wouldn't want to be cursed by him

I'm half Irish, so I'll only be cursed 50%. Worth a chance.

fatton · Post by **fatton** » 09 Apr 2008, 10:09

Wasn't Henry Wharton from travelling stock? If so he's probably been about the best in recent times along with Michael Gomez.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 09 Apr 2008, 10:17

Wharton is from a gypsy family based around York.

Think he is from the English/Romany gyspy tradition, as opposed to Irish traveller stock, though.

fist · Post by **fist** » 09 Apr 2008, 13:13

TerribleTerry wrote:Wharton is from a gypsy family based around York.

Think he is from the English/Romany gyspy tradition, as opposed to Irish traveller stock, though.

Yeah he's from York. He's from a large travelling family. Most of his brothers can have a scrap, it runs in the family.

Johnny Frankham was a gypsy, who won the British Lightheavy Weight title in 75.

Wharton is the best traveller who's boxed in modern times.

E · Post by E » 09 Apr 2008, 14:30

fist wrote:
TerribleTerry wrote:Wharton is from a gypsy family based around York.

Think he is from the English/Romany gyspy tradition, as opposed to Irish traveller stock, though.
Yeah he's from York. He's from a large travelling family. Most of his brothers can have a scrap, it runs in the family.

Johnny Frankham was a gypsy, who won the British Lightheavy Weight title in 75.

Wharton is the best traveller who's boxed in modern times.

Wasn't his son Bobby Frankham who knocked out the ref on the Horace Notice / Benn bill?

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer