Eastman/Calzaghe - the comparison

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 20 Apr 2008, 15:30

I'm guessing most of us on here saw Eastman fight Hopkins a few years back and change absolutely nothing when he was getting fiddled out of it.

Whatever you think about the final outcome last night, at least Calzaghe didn't let that happen and went for it absolutely. Hopkins knew it was close as he went for it the final round, something he wouldn't do if he didn't have to.

So I say credit to Joe for proving he can adapt, has heart and belongs on the truly elite stage unlike any other British fighter since Lennox.

And, for what its worth, I don't think Hopkins would have fared any better if the fight happened five years ago. He has always boxed in a cagey fashion, would have been more vulnerable to Calzaghe had he been more attacking and lets not forget - Joe may be feeling the effects of age himself....

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 20 Apr 2008, 15:39

Maelstrom wrote: And, for what its worth, I don't think Hopkins would have fared any better if the fight happened five years ago. He has always boxed in a cagey fashion, ....

When BHOPs was a younger man and threw combos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_EZuRRCICE

I had BHOPS winning but I'd agree with Calazage been the most successful Brit since Lennox without a doubt

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:09

Maelstrom wrote:I'm guessing most of us on here saw Eastman fight Hopkins a few years back and change absolutely nothing when he was getting fiddled out of it.

Whatever you think about the final outcome last night, at least Calzaghe didn't let that happen and went for it absolutely. Hopkins knew it was close as he went for it the final round, something he wouldn't do if he didn't have to.

So I say credit to Joe for proving he can adapt, has heart and belongs on the truly elite stage unlike any other British fighter since Lennox.

And, for what its worth, I don't think Hopkins would have fared any better if the fight happened five years ago. He has always boxed in a cagey fashion, would have been more vulnerable to Calzaghe had he been more attacking and lets not forget - Joe may be feeling the effects of age himself....

Sorry I disagree, Calzaghe got back into the fight - cause Hopkins tired. Still didn't win IMO but thats the only change in the fight - Hopkins tired.

Hopkins would have battered Calzaghe in 2001. Question mark always about Hopkins 2001 vs Calzaghe (any version) is whether Joe's speed and workrate could over well Hopkins, or could Hopkins nulify it... we got the answer last night.

Add crisper punches, BETTER workrate then Hopkins would have stopped Joe late IMO.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:30

Joe won last night on work-rate. However, he beat the old man version of BHop and wouldnt have beaten him in his prime. Last nights fight has done nothing for Joe's legacy, and probably proved that he wouldnt have stood a chance against the prime Hopkins or Jones. No shame in that though.
I dont see how Eastman got jobbed against Hopkins, I thought he clearly lost, although he put in a very good effort and landed cleanly more times than Joe did last night. The decline in Hopkins work rate between the Eastman fight and last night was marked

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:54

dr_devious wrote:Joe won last night on work-rate. However, he beat the old man version of BHop and wouldnt have beaten him in his prime. Last nights fight has done nothing for Joe's legacy, and probably proved that he wouldnt have stood a chance against the prime Hopkins or Jones. No shame in that though.
I dont see how Eastman got jobbed against Hopkins, I thought he clearly lost, although he put in a very good effort and landed cleanly more times than Joe did last night. The decline in Hopkins work rate between the Eastman fight and last night was marked

We know B-Hop lost last night.

We can NOTsay that B-Hop wpuld beat Calzaghe years ago because years ago, B-Hop hrew punches and came forward a lot!

Counter puncher vs Attacking Hopkins, Joe would do even better!

Hopkins is a stinker of a fighter.

JOE CALZAGHE 2 WEOGHT RING CHAMPION AT THE SAME TIME!

Calzaghe Vs RJJ in Cardiff and then retire!

OR

Get Tarver over and kick his stinking arse!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 17:52

DG. wrote:
dr_devious wrote:Joe won last night on work-rate. However, he beat the old man version of BHop and wouldnt have beaten him in his prime. Last nights fight has done nothing for Joe's legacy, and probably proved that he wouldnt have stood a chance against the prime Hopkins or Jones. No shame in that though.
I dont see how Eastman got jobbed against Hopkins, I thought he clearly lost, although he put in a very good effort and landed cleanly more times than Joe did last night. The decline in Hopkins work rate between the Eastman fight and last night was marked

We know B-Hop lost last night.

We can NOTsay that B-Hop wpuld beat Calzaghe years ago because years ago, B-Hop hrew punches and came forward a lot!

Counter puncher vs Attacking Hopkins, Joe would do even better!

Hopkins is a stinker of a fighter.

JOE CALZAGHE 2 WEOGHT RING CHAMPION AT THE SAME TIME!

Calzaghe Vs RJJ in Cardiff and then retire!

OR

Get Tarver over and kick his stinking arse!

Who is saying that Hopkins would have come forward.. all Hopkins needed to do was fight as he did for the opening 3 rounds right the way through and he would have won.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 20 Apr 2008, 18:57

stujones wrote:
DG. wrote:
dr_devious wrote:Joe won last night on work-rate. However, he beat the old man version of BHop and wouldnt have beaten him in his prime. Last nights fight has done nothing for Joe's legacy, and probably proved that he wouldnt have stood a chance against the prime Hopkins or Jones. No shame in that though.
I dont see how Eastman got jobbed against Hopkins, I thought he clearly lost, although he put in a very good effort and landed cleanly more times than Joe did last night. The decline in Hopkins work rate between the Eastman fight and last night was marked

We know B-Hop lost last night.

We can NOTsay that B-Hop wpuld beat Calzaghe years ago because years ago, B-Hop hrew punches and came forward a lot!

Counter puncher vs Attacking Hopkins, Joe would do even better!

Hopkins is a stinker of a fighter.

JOE CALZAGHE 2 WEOGHT RING CHAMPION AT THE SAME TIME!

Calzaghe Vs RJJ in Cardiff and then retire!

OR

Get Tarver over and kick his stinking arse!

Who is saying that Hopkins would have come forward.. all Hopkins needed to do was fight as he did for the opening 3 rounds right the way through and he would have won.

5 years ago - Hopkins was much more aggressive.

PLUS, JC was better 5 years ago than he is now!

Hopkins is a better DEFENSIVE fighter than he was 5 years ago because he runs all the time now and counters and THROWS a big right hand.

He had combinations years ago, and that in itself leaves openings.

JC 2 Division RING CHAMPION - 45-0!

Sing it Boxrec,

Hopkins claims he wasa ripped off last nght - but we say NO NO NO!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 20:01

DG. wrote:
stujones wrote:
DG. wrote:
We know B-Hop lost last night.

We can NOTsay that B-Hop wpuld beat Calzaghe years ago because years ago, B-Hop hrew punches and came forward a lot!

Counter puncher vs Attacking Hopkins, Joe would do even better!

Hopkins is a stinker of a fighter.

JOE CALZAGHE 2 WEOGHT RING CHAMPION AT THE SAME TIME!

Calzaghe Vs RJJ in Cardiff and then retire!

OR

Get Tarver over and kick his stinking arse!

Who is saying that Hopkins would have come forward.. all Hopkins needed to do was fight as he did for the opening 3 rounds right the way through and he would have won.

5 years ago - Hopkins was much more aggressive.

PLUS, JC was better 5 years ago than he is now!

Hopkins is a better DEFENSIVE fighter than he was 5 years ago because he runs all the time now and counters and THROWS a big right hand.

He had combinations years ago, and that in itself leaves openings.

JC 2 Division RING CHAMPION - 45-0!

Sing it Boxrec,

Hopkins claims he wasa ripped off last nght - but we say NO NO NO!

Hopkins wasn't a better anything as he was 5 years ago... he was dropping his hands late on cause he was getting tired. And as I said - Hopkins is/was the master tactiction - why could he had just opted to fight as he did for the opening 3 rounds and win the fight handily.

Had to prove if Calzaghe was a better fighter 5 years ago... certainly less experienced - this is the Calzaghe who lost his head vs Brewer, got nailed by Mitchell. He had his greatest wins after that... Hopkins hasn't.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 20 Apr 2008, 20:10

The reality is that no one knows with absolute certainty how fights will turn out, lest considering different circumstances and surroundings.

I always felt that Calzaghe would be eaten up by the hype/razzmatazz machine that epitomises Vegas big time boxing. Calzaghe seemed to be totally unfazed by it all in this fight - whether that comes with age, experience, arrogance and/or seeing the thing for what it is will always raise a eyebrow for me.

I would have liked to have seen Calzaghe dip his toes much longer ago and follow that up with significant fights at the right time - but I think that wouldn't be in accord with an alledgedly manner.

coneye · Post by **coneye** » 20 Apr 2008, 20:10

Hopkins claims he wasa ripped off last nght - but we say NO NO NO!

[/quote] Now he knows how por Wicky feels

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2008, 21:07

A more agressive Hopkins of 5 years ago not spoiling would of taken more Calzaghe combinations. Calzaghe thrives on agressive fighters and Hopkins on Saturday was on his bike.

bugs · Post by **bugs** » 20 Apr 2008, 23:22

Max Molyneux wrote:A more agressive Hopkins of 5 years ago not spoiling would of taken more Calzaghe combinations. Calzaghe thrives on agressive fighters and Hopkins on Saturday was on his bike.

Totally agree, Joe won I the manner he did because Hopkins fought a defensive spoiler, if Hopkins had been agressive it would have suited Joe a lot more.

Iknowmystuff · Post by **Iknowmystuff** » 20 Apr 2008, 23:55

the really funny part is all the calzaghe fans know dam well joe wouldn't stand a chance against hopkins in his prime, in fact joe would've probably been brutally KO'ed like Hatton was.

Joe is smart to fight the real champs when they are about 10 years past their prime, it's the only way he can win, no shame in that when you are a overhyped UK fighter than no real fan respects anyway.

by the way, if joe retires without fighting Pavlik and Dawson, his entire career was a bigger joke than it already was.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 21 Apr 2008, 03:12

Iknowmystuff wrote:the really funny part is all the calzaghe fans know dam well joe wouldn't stand a chance against hopkins in his prime, in fact joe would've probably been brutally KO'ed like Hatton was.

Joe is smart to fight the real champs when they are about 10 years past their prime, it's the only way he can win, no shame in that when you are a overhyped UK fighter than no real fan respects anyway.

by the way, if joe retires without fighting Pavlik and Dawson, his entire career was a bigger joke than it already was.

Ypu know that Hopkins signed to foght JC then turned round the next day and asked for double he money?

3M then 6M!

JC beat B-Hop on Saturday - no doubt about it.

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 21 Apr 2008, 04:27

bugs wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:A more agressive Hopkins of 5 years ago not spoiling would of taken more Calzaghe combinations. Calzaghe thrives on agressive fighters and Hopkins on Saturday was on his bike.
Totally agree, Joe won I the manner he did because Hopkins fought a defensive spoiler, if Hopkins had been agressive it would have suited Joe a lot more.

I agree with that too. Hopkins somehow was allowed to turn it into a hugging match.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 21 Apr 2008, 05:09

Max Molyneux wrote:A more agressive Hopkins of 5 years ago not spoiling would of taken more Calzaghe combinations. Calzaghe thrives on agressive fighters and Hopkins on Saturday was on his bike.

Hopkins still fought defensively 5 years ago BUT threw more combinations. He was at his peak around the Trinidad fight imo

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 21 Apr 2008, 05:13

Iknowmystuff wrote:the really funny part is all the calzaghe fans know dam well joe wouldn't stand a chance against hopkins in his prime, in fact joe would've probably been brutally KO'ed like Hatton was.

Joe is smart to fight the real champs when they are about 10 years past their prime, it's the only way he can win, no shame in that when you are a overhyped UK fighter than no real fan respects anyway.

by the way, if joe retires without fighting Pavlik and Dawson, his entire career was a bigger joke than it already was.

who knows, but Joe is already definitely past his prime too. Joe has beaten good fighters in their prime who actually came to fight - Kessler and Lacy - and I mainly think this Hopkins fight exposed the fact that he hates fighting a good defensive fighter.

Just like Hopkins just can't get off vs atheltic Yanks who have good speed/power, Calzaghe's - due to his lack of clean punching and openness to rights - "wrong style" has been shown clearly to us. Mundine and Ottke would have really troubled him.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Apr 2008, 05:14

DG. wrote: We know B-Hop lost last night.

We can NOTsay that B-Hop wpuld beat Calzaghe years ago because years ago, B-Hop hrew punches and came forward a lot!

Counter puncher vs Attacking Hopkins, Joe would do even better!

Hopkins is a stinker of a fighter.

JOE CALZAGHE 2 WEOGHT RING CHAMPION AT THE SAME TIME!

Calzaghe Vs RJJ in Cardiff and then retire!

OR

Get Tarver over and kick his stinking arse!

When was Hopkins ever an attacking fighter? Hes always been a counter-puncher, and on Saturday nights evidence a better one than Calzaghe. The only reason Hop lost was because of age and an inability to fight for 3 minutes a round over long stretches. He was beaten on work-rate, pure and simple.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 21 Apr 2008, 07:52

dr_devious wrote:
DG. wrote: We know B-Hop lost last night.

We can NOTsay that B-Hop wpuld beat Calzaghe years ago because years ago, B-Hop hrew punches and came forward a lot!

Counter puncher vs Attacking Hopkins, Joe would do even better!

Hopkins is a stinker of a fighter.

JOE CALZAGHE 2 WEOGHT RING CHAMPION AT THE SAME TIME!

Calzaghe Vs RJJ in Cardiff and then retire!

OR

Get Tarver over and kick his stinking arse!

When was Hopkins ever an attacking fighter? Hes always been a counter-puncher, and on Saturday nights evidence a better one than Calzaghe. The only reason Hop lost was because of age and an inability to fight for 3 minutes a round over long stretches. He was beaten on work-rate, pure and simple.

Back in the day Hopkins would at least go forward and ATTACK!

Have a look!

He lost because JC beat him!

What you are saying is the same as 'oh - he only lost becuse he got knocked out!'

Iknowmystuff · Post by **Iknowmystuff** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:27

actually DG your boy calzaghe is the one who demanded too much money for RJJ and Hopkins, he also wanted no parts of Jermain taylor after taylor beat hopkins, he was smart enough to at least blame it all on allegedly like Hatton did, and I can believe it, i'm not saying joe was scarred, I hope he wasn't but his promoter surely was.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:31

Well it was hopkins who asked for twice the money at late notice against Joe, thus derailing the fight.

Had they fought 5 years ago Hopkins wouldve been stepping up in weight, not Calzaghe - a massive difference imo.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:54

DG. wrote: Back in the day Hopkins would at least go forward and ATTACK!

Have a look!

He lost because JC beat him!

What you are saying is the same as 'oh - he only lost becuse he got knocked out!'

No I'm not. Im saying that last nights fight did bugger all for Calzaghe's legacy because he struggled to beat a 43 year old who cant fight a full fight. I dont know how anyone watching Saturdays fight can think that Calzaghe would have beaten Hopkins 4 or 5 years ago

Eastman/Calzaghe - the comparison

Eastman/Calzaghe - the comparison

Re: Eastman/Calzaghe - the comparison

Re: Eastman/Calzaghe - the comparison