JC's record

John Dillinger · Post by **John Dillinger** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:33

There's often talk on here about the quality of opponents that JC faced prior to Lacy. I don't think anyone can question Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell or Brewer. They were solid ex champs, Reid and Brewer carried on at a high level for some time afterwards.

Equally there's no doubt Pudwill and MCintyre were poor. But most of the others on JC's record look to me in hindsight to be decent names. Thorberry went onto to take Ottke to points and lost to Mundine. Shieka later fought Ottke I think and Beyer and Brewer. Starie fought Ottke.Salem had just lost to viet and went on to fight Bute. Veit later beat Brewer and Braehmer.

Yes there have been some very average defences eg Ashira, Jiminez but on the whole it's not a bad list.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:41

It's looking alot better these days after his last 2 fights, it's a pity that Ottke isn't on there though, he's the main omission

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:45

A decent amount of names, just that Super Middle has never had big enough stars so his record gets criticised partly because none of them were big enough names.

Reyes · Post by **Reyes** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:47

I think every fighter past and present could have their records scrutinised and have some fault picked about it.

Rocky Marciano's record was hardly stellar. But he could only beat what was put in front of him.

Roy Jones's record is littered with a few names who had no business being in the ring with him.

Joe Louis had a "bum of the month" club.

Ricky Hatton's record prior to Mayweather was no doubt more questionable.

Joe's quality of opponent is on the up, but is it really so, when these names are no longer in their prime, which is also the same of Joe. These fights should have been made years ago.

mike john · Post by **mike john** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:49

i think what it comes down to is, for which fights not happening do you blame calzaghe for? to my mind, only the glen johnson fight. a good name to have on your record to be sure, but id rate a victory over glen below hopkins and kessler

STP · Post by **STP** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:50

mike john wrote:for which fights not happening do you blame calzaghe for?

All of them?

He just wouldn't budge.

mike john · Post by **mike john** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:58

STP wrote:
mike john wrote:for which fights not happening do you blame calzaghe for?
All of them?

He just wouldn't budge.

rubbish. im not privvy to all the details, but it seems hopkins backed out of the contracted fight with joe by unreasonably increasing demands, roy was not interested in taking the low reward high risk fight ( please chip in if you know otherwise ) and anyone who saw ottke reid cannot possibly blame anyone for not facing sven in his backyard if they werent forced into it through a mandatory shot at the title or options. what a hatchet job they would have pulled on calzaghe. who else was there that should be on joes record?

Reyes · Post by **Reyes** » 22 Apr 2008, 06:59

I didn't realise I was blaming Calzaghe for fights that didn't happen. I just stated that they didn't happen. No need to get so defensive.

Also anyone else who wants to get defensive read my post again and you will see that I am actually defending his record. I actually think his record is pretty fine, it is better pound for pound, than Hatton's.

STP · Post by **STP** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:02

mike john wrote:
STP wrote:
mike john wrote:for which fights not happening do you blame calzaghe for?
All of them?

He just wouldn't budge.
rubbish. im not privvy to all the details, but it seems hopkins backed out of the contracted fight with joe by unreasonably increasing demands, roy was not interested in taking the low reward high risk fight ( please chip in if you know otherwise ) and anyone who saw ottke reid cannot possibly blame anyone for not facing sven in his backyard if they werent forced into it through a mandatory shot at the title or options. what a hatchet job they would have pulled on calzaghe. who else was there that should be on joes record?

It's funny how his phobia of flying has suddenly vanished...

And Liles (who Joe said was 'too tall and tricky' for him to fight), Brewer when he was IBF champion (who claimed on an internet site last year that he couldn't get Calzaghe to America), Ottke, Echols.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:08

STP wrote:
mike john wrote:for which fights not happening do you blame calzaghe for?
All of them?

He just wouldn't budge.

Bullshit, Hopkins when he was better didn\t have the safety first bollocks he does now and turned Joe down for guys like Hakkar and Daniels.

Joes to blame too but alot made out It was all Joe at first.

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:10

There's always this bleating on about not fighting in America. Well show me a Stateside champion who regularly takes the show on the road to foreign soil out of any of the big names over the last 10 years?

Only time they do it is when they're titleless, past it, looking for a payday or a combination of all three.

Of course they don't. The champion is the man and it's up to all-comers to beat him in his own town in most cases. It's just how it is.

Why has Joe Calzaghe got to go to America or anywhere else for that matter to defend any title he is carrying? Get your asses out of America and come to Wales and see how you do?

mike john · Post by **mike john** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:12

Reyes wrote:I didn't realise I was blaming Calzaghe for fights that didn't happen. I just stated that they didn't happen. No need to get so defensive.

Also anyone else who wants to get defensive read my post again and you will see that I am actually defending his record. I actually think his record is pretty fine, it is better pound for pound, than Hatton's.

ok, i assume thats directed at me, but if you'd re-read my post, your name wasnt mentioned or quoted. it was a general comment, directed at anyone who might lay blame soley at the feet at camp calzaghe.

perhaps what it should have said was
" i think what it ( jc's record, thread title ) comes down to is, for which fights not happening does one blame calzaghe for? "

but then i would have sounded like a toffee nosed twat

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:12

I'll add to this... what right has an ex champ like Charles Brewer, who didn't have a title, got to demand Joe 'come over here and fight me'. Get stuffed mate. Come over to Wales and you do it the hard way, I'm the man with the belt round my waist... that would be my answer everytime.

STP · Post by **STP** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:13

Brewer had the IBF belt. He claims he couldn't get Calzaghe to America for a unification.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:15

If Brewer wanted to fight him so much, why wouldn't he come to Wales?

Reyes · Post by **Reyes** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:17

mike john wrote:
Reyes wrote:I didn't realise I was blaming Calzaghe for fights that didn't happen. I just stated that they didn't happen. No need to get so defensive.

Also anyone else who wants to get defensive read my post again and you will see that I am actually defending his record. I actually think his record is pretty fine, it is better pound for pound, than Hatton's.
ok, i assume thats directed at me, but if you'd re-read my post, your name wasnt mentioned or quoted. it was a general comment, directed at anyone who might lay blame soley at the feet at camp calzaghe.

perhaps what it should have said was
" i think what it ( jc's record, thread title ) comes down to is, for which fights not happening does one blame calzaghe for? "

but then i would have sounded like a toffee nosed twat

As I was the only one to mention fights not happening, I fail to see who else you was directing it to. But no matter, let's move on.

mike john · Post by **mike john** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:18

Reyes wrote:
mike john wrote:
Reyes wrote:I didn't realise I was blaming Calzaghe for fights that didn't happen. I just stated that they didn't happen. No need to get so defensive.

Also anyone else who wants to get defensive read my post again and you will see that I am actually defending his record. I actually think his record is pretty fine, it is better pound for pound, than Hatton's.
ok, i assume thats directed at me, but if you'd re-read my post, your name wasnt mentioned or quoted. it was a general comment, directed at anyone who might lay blame soley at the feet at camp calzaghe.

perhaps what it should have said was
" i think what it ( jc's record, thread title ) comes down to is, for which fights not happening does one blame calzaghe for? "

but then i would have sounded like a toffee nosed twat
As I was the only one to mention fights not happening, I fail to see who else you was directing it to. But no matter, let's move on.

lets

STP · Post by **STP** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:19

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:If Brewer wanted to fight him so much, why wouldn't he come to Wales?

He probably didn't want to fight him so much, because who was Joe Calzaghe to Americans?

DIRT SUGAR · Post by **DIRT SUGAR** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:25

STP wrote:Brewer had the IBF belt. He claims he couldn't get Calzaghe to America for a unification.

I didn't check on that so okay I stand corrected on that one but you get the jist of what I'm trying to say. It's a champion's right to fight where he likes and if the challenger's camp don't win purse bids it's tough titty I'm afraid.

STP · Post by **STP** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:30

DIRT SUGAR wrote:
STP wrote:Brewer had the IBF belt. He claims he couldn't get Calzaghe to America for a unification.
I didn't check on that so okay I stand corrected on that one but you get the jist of what I'm trying to say. It's a champion's right to fight where he likes and if the challenger's camp don't win purse bids it's tough titty I'm afraid.

Well, yeah. But that's not exactly a sign of greatness, is it?

And when this part-time champion winges about lack of recognition for 10 years....

Reyes · Post by **Reyes** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:32

In the case of Brewer/Calzaghe there was never going to be any purse bids because it was never going to be a mandatory as they were champions from different governing bodies.

As it turned out, Brewer got schooled anyway when he did show up in Wales so what was he piping on about? Was he just part of the Hopkins media machine trying to get under his skin?

Walker Smith Jr. · Post by **Walker Smith Jr.** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:37

DIRT SUGAR wrote:There's always this bleating on about not fighting in America. Well show me a Stateside champion who regularly takes the show on the road to foreign soil out of any of the big names over the last 10 years?

Only time they do it is when they're titleless, past it, looking for a payday or a combination of all three.

Of course they don't. The champion is the man and it's up to all-comers to beat him in his own town in most cases. It's just how it is.

Why has Joe Calzaghe got to go to America or anywhere else for that matter to defend any title he is carrying? Get your asses out of America and come to Wales and see how you do?

Good post agree completly.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:37

Calzaghe's record was full of crap up until the last couple of years and it shouldn't be looked at any differently. He fought Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell and Brewer AFTER they had lost their titles and some of the other names on his record are laughable, ie Ashira, Salem, Thornberry, Veit x 2, Pudwell, McIntyre, Mkrtchian, Jimenez and Bika.

Calzaghe has secured his legacy in the last couple of years, before that it was one frustrating night after another. Some people have short memories. Still, it's better late than never.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:38

Joe Cal has never really fought THE BEST FIGHTERS when he was at HIS BEST.

Which is a sad waste of Talent IMO.

There were a few good names, but the thats all they were, Names.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:38

Walker Smith Jr. wrote:
DIRT SUGAR wrote:There's always this bleating on about not fighting in America. Well show me a Stateside champion who regularly takes the show on the road to foreign soil out of any of the big names over the last 10 years?

Only time they do it is when they're titleless, past it, looking for a payday or a combination of all three.

Of course they don't. The champion is the man and it's up to all-comers to beat him in his own town in most cases. It's just how it is.

Why has Joe Calzaghe got to go to America or anywhere else for that matter to defend any title he is carrying? Get your asses out of America and come to Wales and see how you do?

Good post agree completly.