He Went On Too Long

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 18 Jun 2008, 04:46

This talk about Pavlik v Calzaghe got me thinking about fighters who go on too long. Well, that and having watched Pacquaio v Morales 3 at the weekend.

Seeing Stevie Johnson lose to guys he'd have walked through 10 years ago also brought this to mind.

Are there any fighters out there now you feel should hang up their gloves asap? Those who could come a cropper in their next fight or two and taint their legacies. Or any fighters that it broke your heart to see beaten up against guys they'd have decked in their primes.

It's already happened to Jones, losing twice to Tarver. Morales lost to Raheem etc etc.

Asterix · Post by **Asterix** » 18 Jun 2008, 04:50

I agree with Calzaghe that he should fight no more than one time.

Ricky Hatton has slipped and I think he should retire shortly. It's hard to know when, though. I think fighting Malignaggi and Pacquiao might be okay, but no more than that.

Graham Earl. I think his health could be badly affected if he fights on.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 18 Jun 2008, 05:16

Lloyd Honeyghan went on too long, and Michael Ayers had one fight too many.

Current fighters: I think Calzaghe is skating on thin ice and it's the main reason I dont think he should take a Pavlik fight. He was buzzed badly by Hopkins, and although he was straight back up, he wasn't right for 2-3 rounds afterwards.

The signs are there.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 18 Jun 2008, 05:51

Duran, Leonard, RJJ, Ali and J C Chavez are the worst. Really tainted their legacies.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 18 Jun 2008, 07:21

Boxing is a business, if a fighter needs the money he has to fight.

There isnt a great need for ex-boxers in todays workplace

As for Hatton retiring?

Take a day off, 30 years old, only lost once and gets millions of pounds per fight

Yep, he should retire alright....

Peter Hick · Post by **Peter Hick** » 18 Jun 2008, 07:35

Hatton has been psychologically damaged by the Mayweather loss.

If he fights another elite fighter again he is liable to get hurt badly.

He should retire now and enjoy what he has already earnt.

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 18 Jun 2008, 07:52

Michael Brodie if he fights again.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:01

Flump wrote:Michael Brodie if he fights again.

Very true, I still recall how out of shape he was and how he slurred his words on Seconds Out a couple of months back. I wouldn't recommend it, same with Gomez but he has anyway.

But they need the cash....

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:12

Trinidad - pretty much every fight he's had since Joppy has damaged his legacy.
Benn also went on too long, but we'll all let him off as he gave us everything in his prime.. no danger of his legacy being tarnished!

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:20

Captain Hook wrote:
Flump wrote:Michael Brodie if he fights again.
Very true, I still recall how out of shape he was and how he slurred his words on Seconds Out a couple of months back. I wouldn't recommend it, same with Gomez but he has anyway.

But they need the cash....

Sad if that is true about Bodie slurring - in this instance I hope he just had a few drinks!

As for Gomez - life might be more dangerous for him outside te ring than in.

I also heard about 5 years ago that he has no mortgage etc so maybe he just fights for spending money.

He might be a lot better off financially than he looks.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:23

Deserter wrote:Trinidad - pretty much every fight he's had since Joppy has damaged his legacy.
Benn also went on too long, but we'll all let him off as he gave us everything in his prime.. no danger of his legacy being tarnished!

Its one thing to come back 3 times and gross around $30M and indulge in glorified spars with Winky and RJJ and another thing to come back for £5K and get knocked out and ruined like 99% of fighters on the comeback trail.

Benn is a legend and legacy soild.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:23

Captain Hook wrote:
Flump wrote:Michael Brodie if he fights again.
Very true, I still recall how out of shape he was and how he slurred his words on Seconds Out a couple of months back. I wouldn't recommend it, same with Gomez but he has anyway.

But they need the cash....

All Mike knows is fighting / competing. What will he do after fighting? Where will eh go. Still only "young" isnt he, just very worn as a competitor.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:39

Barrera and Morales need to hang them up unless they rematch each other. Hatton has 2-4 years left of his near prime making multi-millions per fight. At 140 there isnt any hugely dangerous men either especially the way he manages his career.

RJJ and BHOPS should probably go BUT I'd like to see them rematch each other

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:45

Hatton has a couple of fights left I think.

I don't think the motivation is there any more, he just wants a couple of decent wins to cap his career. A win over Malignaggi and then one more and out.

He looks to be in decline to me, his engine was fine in his last fight, but he seems to have lost some power, because he never really came close to denting Lazcano in truth, despite landing everything but the kitchen sink at him.

He looked good and fit, but he's not the same fighter he was three or four years ago. The beating he put on Tszyu was pretty incredible, and despite taking some huge punches, he wasn't hurt.

His punch resistance isn't what it was. He was hurt badly against Lazcano, not once but twice in their fight, and was hanging on for dear life, and Lazcano is not a big puncher at the weight.

If he continues on past next year, I see him getting stopped by a young hungry and aggressive fighter he would have beaten in his prime.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 18 Jun 2008, 08:55

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Hatton has a couple of fights left I think.

I don't think the motivation is there any more, he just wants a couple of decent wins to cap his career. A win over Malignaggi and then one more and out.

He looks to be in decline to me, his engine was fine in his last fight, but he seems to have lost some power, because he never really came close to denting Lazcano in truth, despite landing everything but the kitchen sink at him.

He looked good and fit, but he's not the same fighter he was three or four years ago. The beating he put on Tszyu was pretty incredible, and despite taking some huge punches, he wasn't hurt.

His punch resistance isn't what it was. He was hurt badly against Lazcano, not once but twice in their fight, and was hanging on for dear life, and Lazcano is not a big puncher at the weight.

If he continues on past next year, I see him getting stopped by a young hungry and aggressive fighter he would have beaten in his prime.

Who has come close to putting a dent in Lazcanno though? LAzcannos been in with big punchers like Harris and Castillo and has a tightish defense, tough as nails and is fairly big at the weight despite being an ex135lber. Lazcanno also took a bad beating in the Hatton fight. I don't think Hatton has ever been a massive puncher. He stopped Tyszu but Tyszu caught more clean shots than Lazcanno imo. HE didnt stop Tackie, Phillips, Vilches and no one was complaining back then. Lazcanno is at least on the level of those fighters.

Hatton might not have been hurt against Tyszu (well he probably be was but he didnt show it) but he was hurt against Phillips, Tackie and Collazo. Boxings just 1 of those sports that isnt all about number or about the puncher your in with its about so many variables. If you push a puncher back he loses his power, if hes tired he loses his power, if the puncher can't land his best shot at teh range he likes too he loses his power, if a puncher hits you with his best shot early in the fight it doesnt hurt you as much as when your tired at the end.

Hatton will steam roll Malignaggi then set up a HUGE fight with Pacquaio (money wise). HE won't stop until he gets his second lost at least IMO

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 18 Jun 2008, 09:09

Wales wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:
Flump wrote:Michael Brodie if he fights again.
Very true, I still recall how out of shape he was and how he slurred his words on Seconds Out a couple of months back. I wouldn't recommend it, same with Gomez but he has anyway.

But they need the cash....
All Mike knows is fighting / competing. What will he do after fighting? Where will eh go. Still only "young" isnt he, just very worn as a competitor.

Yeah I agree he would probably get into more trouble outside the ring but if he carries on in the ring he will get hurt - badly.

Anything that goes on afterwards is his problem, he's a big boy now he doesn't have to get into trouble. He has to stop boxing at some time, and he's better off doing it with his health in tact IMO.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 18 Jun 2008, 09:10

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Barrera and Morales need to hang them up unless they rematch each other. Hatton has 2-4 years left of his near prime making multi-millions per fight. At 140 there isnt any hugely dangerous men either especially the way he manages his career.

RJJ and BHOPS should probably go BUT I'd like to see them rematch each other

They already have hung them up mate....

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 18 Jun 2008, 09:17

Captain Hook wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Barrera and Morales need to hang them up unless they rematch each other. Hatton has 2-4 years left of his near prime making multi-millions per fight. At 140 there isnt any hugely dangerous men either especially the way he manages his career.

RJJ and BHOPS should probably go BUT I'd like to see them rematch each other
They already have hung them up mate....

Fraid not. Both have gone on record as saying they want one more fight. Barrera wants the winner of Marquez and Casamayor.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 18 Jun 2008, 09:23

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Barrera and Morales need to hang them up unless they rematch each other. Hatton has 2-4 years left of his near prime making multi-millions per fight. At 140 there isnt any hugely dangerous men either especially the way he manages his career.

RJJ and BHOPS should probably go BUT I'd like to see them rematch each other
They already have hung them up mate....
Fraid not. Both have gone on record as saying they want one more fight. Barrera wants the winner of Marquez and Casamayor.

My God you are joking, that didn't last long.....

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 18 Jun 2008, 09:53

Lloyd Honeyghan
Terry Norris
Neon Leon

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 18 Jun 2008, 11:00

DG. wrote:
Deserter wrote:Trinidad - pretty much every fight he's had since Joppy has damaged his legacy.
Benn also went on too long, but we'll all let him off as he gave us everything in his prime.. no danger of his legacy being tarnished!

Its one thing to come back 3 times and gross around $30M and indulge in glorified spars with Winky and RJJ and another thing to come back for £5K and get knocked out and ruined like 99% of fighters on the comeback trail.

Benn is a legend and legacy soild.

I hear what you're saying DG, but I'd still say he definitely went on too long - seeing a pudgy Trinidad bullied around the ring and taken to school by the aforementioned names has altered my perception of him as the killer he was at welter. He may have made good money for it, but at a cost to his legacy.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 18 Jun 2008, 11:04

Captain Hook wrote:My God you are joking, that didn't last long.....

I wish I was mate. TBH, Morales beat Diaz in my book so I think he still has something to offer but Barrera is a shell now. Plus he's put on ALOT of weight lately.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 18 Jun 2008, 11:21

It was sad to see Eamonn Magee getting beaten by Tak and Anderson, neither of whom are in his class in his prime.

Although it was nice to see Magee put in a more spirited effort vs Anderson - if that was his swansong.

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 18 Jun 2008, 12:02

Vargas. He may have been young, but he was ruined by Trinidad. Every fight after that just added to the damage.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 18 Jun 2008, 12:13

holyfield.

ali.

duran.

leonard.

barely anyone has known when to go really have they. :(

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