Reputations before and after

[Ezzard]

Sometimes a fighter goes into a fight with a big reputation and then afterwards they never manage to get back to those heights. Maybe they were overrated to begin with... I think subsequentl;y their abilities then become underrated.

IMO though certain fighters were excellent on the night of their big fights but never quite make it back for one reason or another...

3 guys who IMO were very good fighters who fall into this category...

(1) Davey Moore - looked a great in the making until the Duran fight.
(2) Gerry Cooney - Cooney's lack of achievement post-Holmes actually makes the Holmes win seem not such a big deal but Gerry had a punch and a lot of heart. He should have been able to pick up an alpha belt during that time.
(3) Jeff Lacy - going into the Calzaghe fight he looked a top fighter. I actually picked him to win. He hasn't been the same since the defeat.

[ManchesterMexican]

Ricky Hatton brilliant fighter before the mayweather fight looked like he could knock out anyone who went toe to toe with him but after the mayweather fight he's had a slight drop in self belif and confidence.....should regain it if he beats the pac-man next year

[Poncey]

Donald Curry. Yes he still won another title, but his fall from #1 P4P was pretty hard.

[Ezzard]

Donald Curry. Yes he still won another title, but his fall from #1 P4P was pretty hard.

IMO he should never have had that p4p number 1 ranking. Hagler was the best out there at the time and the truth was Hearns was better than Curry was in a p4p sense as was Spinks. The US media just fell in love with Curry for some reason. He was good but not that good.

[Poncey]

Donald Curry. Yes he still won another title, but his fall from #1 P4P was pretty hard.

IMO he should never have had that p4p number 1 ranking. Hagler was the best out there at the time and the truth was Hearns was better than Curry was in a p4p sense as was Spinks. The US media just fell in love with Curry for some reason. He was good but not that good.

Couldn't agree more. Do you think it was because of his amatuer record?

[Ezzard]

Donald Curry. Yes he still won another title, but his fall from #1 P4P was pretty hard.

IMO he should never have had that p4p number 1 ranking. Hagler was the best out there at the time and the truth was Hearns was better than Curry was in a p4p sense as was Spinks. The US media just fell in love with Curry for some reason. He was good but not that good.

Couldn't agree more. Do you think it was because of his amatuer record?

I think Ray Leonard left a big hole when he reitred. The Heavies were full of talented but overweight guys who couldn't string enough wins together to get any momentum. I also think that the biggest fights were going to be with Hagler. Once he beat Hearns they were looking for the new threat to him.

Curry looked impressive beating Jones and McCrory. They were good fighters but Curry beating Milton was nowhere near Hagler's win over Hearns.

[Nile4000]

Milton McCrory-had a pretty good reputation up until the Colin Jones fights.Actually thought he was better than Curry until then.
Greg Page- Was pretty much touted as the "Next Ali", but in some ways, after Berbick, was never quite the sensation he was coming up.Of course his habits didn't help.
Alex Ramos- touted highly, but Ted Sanders took some of the polish.
Howard Davis Jr- Some signs were evident before the Watts fight, but after this loss, many never felt the same about him.

[Poncey]

In less than a year Benny Lynch went from World Flyweight champion to being knocked out (cold, if my memory serves). Alcohol get the better of him.

[Seamus]

Young Corbett III was the exact opposite. He suffered a horrendous 1st round KO loss to Jimmy McLarnin for the World Welterweight title, but instead of going downhill, he came back to beat Mickey Walker, Billy Conn, Fred Apostoli, Gus Lesnevich and won a share of the Middleweight title.

[Big Bad John]

Ricky Hatton brilliant fighter before the mayweather fight looked like he could knock out anyone who went toe to toe with him but after the mayweather fight he's had a slight drop in self belif and confidence.....should regain it if he beats the pac-man next year

Hatton was always overrated. Aside from Tszyu, he didn't beat a single decent fighter. He continually went after the worst title holders imaginable, and he nearly lost to Collazo. The Mayweather fight was about what most insiders expected.

[Jaywheel]

David Reid-before and after Tito
Nasseem Hamed-before and after MAB

[Expug]

Bobby Czyz was rolling along .He was one of the "tommorows Champions" crew.
Then along came Mustapha Hamsho.

[Big Bad John]

David Reid-before and after Tito
Nasseem Hamed-before and after MAB

Reid had shown serious weaknesses in punching power, chin and stamina long before the Trinidad bout. The power he had as an amateur simply didn't translate into the professional ranks, and he was going 12 rounds in fight after fight, and fading late in each one:

• James Coker: Used car salesman who knocked him down twice in the championship rounds.
• Laurent Boudouani: Both fighters were on cruise control throughout the fight.
• Kevin Kelly: You could make a strong, strong case that Reid lost this bout.
• Keith Mullings: This fight was a lot closer than it should have been as well. He faded late again, but Mullings simply did not do enough to win the fight.
• Felix Trinidad: Reid's fifth and final 12-round bout. All five of these bouts went to a decision. Reid actually had a lot of success against Trinidad, but following the knockdown, he was looking for one punch at a time. His stamina completely failed him in that fight, and throughout the second half of the fight, Tito battered him around the ring.

The real problem was that at 154 pounds, Reid was solid muscle. He was just too big for the division. He struggled making 160 in his two subsequent bouts, and then moved up to 168, where he beat Maurice Brantly and lost to Sam Hill.

In Reid's final 10 bouts - including the Trinidad bout, four before and five afterwards - Reid scored two knockdowns, one against Trinidad and another at 168. He didn't knock out a single fighter in those 10 fights, except himself.

Oh, and if you hadn't noticed that Hamed had been on the downslide for a couple of years, you're blind. He'd fallen off Ring magazine's pound-for-pound list before regaining that ranking by stopping Vuyani Bungu, the jr. featherweight who Ring ranked above both Morales and Barrera.

[My2Sense]

IMO he should never have had that p4p number 1 ranking. Hagler was the best out there at the time and the truth was Hearns was better than Curry was in a p4p sense as was Spinks. The US media just fell in love with Curry for some reason. He was good but not that good.

I think Ray Leonard left a big hole when he reitred. The Heavies were full of talented but overweight guys who couldn't string enough wins together to get any momentum. I also think that the biggest fights were going to be with Hagler. Once he beat Hearns they were looking for the new threat to him.

Curry looked impressive beating Jones and McCrory. They were good fighters but Curry beating Milton was nowhere near Hagler's win over Hearns.

Agreed on both counts.

I never really understood what people thought was so amazing about Curry, especially in such a short span of time.

[My2Sense]

Terry Norris was supposed to be one of the top P4P fighters in the world at one time, and was being discussed for a big catchweight fight with JC Chavez. That all ended when he was completely embarassed by Simon Brown, who was supposed to be washed up at that time. Even though Norris beat Brown decisively in a rematch, he never really regained the status he held before that.

[elmersalsa]

Terry Norris was supposed to be one of the top P4P fighters in the world at one time, and was being discussed for a big catchweight fight with JC Chavez. That all ended when he was completely embarassed by Simon Brown, who was supposed to be washed up at that time. Even though Norris beat Brown decisively in a rematch, he never really regained the status he held before that.

I really liked that Simon beat the crap of that abuser. Terry Norris ONLY made his name of beating washed up legends and good but overblown welterweights.

[My2Sense]

Terry Norris ONLY made his name of beating washed up legends and good but overblown welterweights.

I pretty much agree.

Mugabi was still considered dangerous, and the manner in which Norris beat him was very shocking.

But Taylor and Blocker were both on the decline, and Curry, Leonard, and Brown were all pretty much used up, or close to it.

[Big Bad John]

Terry Norris was supposed to be one of the top P4P fighters in the world at one time, and was being discussed for a big catchweight fight with JC Chavez. That all ended when he was completely embarassed by Simon Brown, who was supposed to be washed up at that time. Even though Norris beat Brown decisively in a rematch, he never really regained the status he held before that.

Chavez would never have fought Norris at 154, and Norris was unable to make 147. Further, Norris was ranked #6, pound-for-pound, by Ring magazine four years later - and considered a top opponent for both Trinidad and De la Hoya - so the point is moot.

[My2Sense]

Terry Norris was supposed to be one of the top P4P fighters in the world at one time, and was being discussed for a big catchweight fight with JC Chavez. That all ended when he was completely embarassed by Simon Brown, who was supposed to be washed up at that time. Even though Norris beat Brown decisively in a rematch, he never really regained the status he held before that.

Chavez would never have fought Norris at 154, and Norris was unable to make 147. Further, Norris was ranked #6, pound-for-pound, by Ring magazine four years later - and considered a top opponent for both Trinidad and De la Hoya - so the point is moot.

Norris himself said before the Brown fight that he could/would meet Chavez at 147, and that was one of the reasons the two fighters were showcased on the same card in Mexico together.

#6 was higher than most people would've rated Norris in 1997, and yet it was still markedly less than what many people had rated him four years earlier, which was sometimes as high as 1 or 2.

I don't know why you keep throwing around the word "moot", but a single rating from a single magazine doesn't make for a definitive argument.

[Big Bad John]

#6, pound-for-pound, is pretty impressive when you consider how much deeper the pound-for-pound "division" was in 1997, compared to 1993. With Roy Jones, Oscar de la Hoya and Pernell Whitaker around, there's no way even a prime Norris would be ranked in the top three, and I struggle to understand how he would be ranked #2, let alone #1 in 1993, when Chavez and Whitaker were at their respective peaks. In fact, it's pretty wrong in retrospect for him to be ranked above Roy Jones - who had recently beaten Bernard Hopkins - or Evander Holyfield, or James Toney. In 1993, he realistically should have been ranked no higher than #7.

[Ezzard]

Bobby Czyz was rolling along .He was one of the "tommorows Champions" crew.
Then along came Mustapha Hamsho.

Czyz did have a renaissance and then got stopped by Williams in an exciting bout. I remember watching that one. Williams was excellent that night.

[My2Sense]

#6, pound-for-pound, is pretty impressive when you consider how much deeper the pound-for-pound "division" was in 1997, compared to 1993. With Roy Jones, Oscar de la Hoya and Pernell Whitaker around, there's no way even a prime Norris would be ranked in the top three, and I struggle to understand how he would be ranked #2, let alone #1 in 1993, when Chavez and Whitaker were at their respective peaks. In fact, it's pretty wrong in retrospect for him to be ranked above Roy Jones - who had recently beaten Bernard Hopkins - or Evander Holyfield, or James Toney. In 1993, he realistically should have been ranked no higher than #7.

I basically agree with most of what you're saying.

But the whole point of this thread isn't about how good the fighter actually was, but how good he was perceived to be (that is, his reputation). Yes, Norris was overrated pre-Brown, but that's exactly the point. He really wasn't on the level of the Chavezes or the Whitakers, and yet he was often rated right in the mix with them. I remember even when Chavez was widely considered the P4P best fighter in the world (just before he fought Whitaker), there were some people arguing that Norris was actually better. But after Brown burst his bubble, people rated him much more conservatively. He was never again mentioned as a possible great-in-the-making or being possibly on the level of the world's best fighters. And whatever ranking he did gain years later from unifying against Paul Vaden, quickly went down the drain after he was stopped by Mullings.

[Big Bad John]

Yeah, but he would have stopped either Chavez or Whitaker. The two of them had the totally wrong styles.

[Auzzie001]

I agree with the reputation thing man, like zab judah vs kostya tszyu lol. most people thought zab would win because he was young, undefeated, fast and he was knocking people out.. since then he has lost more and stuff
maybe it had something too do with the whole chicken dance thing lol

[Big Bad John]

Zab Judah was always East Coast bullshit. Sports Illustrated not only did a 14-page article on him before the Tszyu fight, but it picked him to easily win against Miguel Cotto.