Joe and Ricky - has greed taken over?

[calcuttakid]

Being an avid boxing fan and one who has attended and travelled to many big fights, I have for a long time looked but never become involved in this type of forum or many of the discussions. so today is my first post. Forgive me if it is a long one.

Of late, I have become very frustrated, bordering on angry even, at the lack of respect being shown to us, the fans, not by the Managers, TV companies or Promoters, that for so long appear to be the easy targets of the frustrated fight fan, but the Boxers themselves and in this instance two fighters who are already big stars and multi-millionaires to boot. Thye are rich because of the support given to them by us - the public - who by choice and sometimes foolishly - finance the TV deals and the gate receipts that these Boxers rely on and earn a big chunk of.

Recently the newspapers have been full of accusations of greed and even slavery aimed at footballers such as Ronaldo and Adebayor and the likes and Manchester Utd and Arsenal are often and sympathetically seen as the victims of these money-obessed prima donnas. These guys earn in a week what most of us will never have at our disposal in a life time yet still want more and contracts and agreements won't get in their way. Integrity for cash it appears is the norm in today's sporting world.

So is it me or are Boxers now going the same way? Has money affected their ability to see reality and has it so far removed them from the man on the street?

Why is a Football team sypathised with, yet a Promoter is not? Doesn't a Promter finance and invest the Boxer from day one without any real guarantees of success or payback? A football team can seell a player on, A Promoter can't -so why the different attitude to what Ronaldo is doing to Manchester Utd and What Calzaghe has done to allegedly?

I for one have travelled to Las Vegas to see Ricky Hatton fight three times to-date at great expense and most recently ventured to see Joe Calzaghe fight (In the loosest possible sense I might add) Bernard Hopkins. That's four times I have had to pay for airfares, hotels and pay an extortionate price for my tickets which, as anyone will tel you, when added up equates to a good few thousand pounds. I am just a working man on a normal wage.

That is my choice and I accept this but perhaps I am being synical when I ask if I am alone by starting to hate hearing the likes of Hatton and Calzaghe taking the mic and thanking the fans for their support from the ring, usually after lack-lustre performances and whilst grabbing yet another few million for their already bursting bank accounts? It is starting to sound as sincere as it looks when Frank Lampard kisses his badge!

Take last week. Hatton, so we are told, said to his Car Dealer like Dad (A man who is basically a ticket tout for his son and personally marked up and earned a fortune from the Mayweather ticket fiasco) "Let's take the fight from New York to Las Vegas because it's cheaper for my fans to travel and get hotels and after all it's them who've made me" - very commendable Ricky and Dad couldn't wait to tell the papers too I note. it's nice to know you appreciate our tight budgets and our continued bankrolling of your career. But hell, why not just tell the truth, we know the truth and you know the truth, so at least have the decency to admit it - You're going to Vegas because the money for YOU is greater that it would be in the UK and probably because you don't want to fight an Italian New Yorker in New York with the suspect New York Judges. If our budgets were your main concern and, as you say the choice was down to you - why isn't the fight at the MEN Arena, which is bigger than any Vegas venue I know of and the cheapest venue for your fans to get to?

Is it because, Vegas fights give your Dad the opportunity to tout the tickets to us again and earn a few extra bucks for you both? If you have so much clout why aren't you telling US TV that you are fighting in the UK? 2am or 4am would be fine by us. The fact is that these comments are hypocritical and downright insulting for you to even try and have us think otherwise. We are intelligent people and can work it out for ourselves so please don't insult our intellegence any longer.

You left allegedly ("He done a great job for me"), you left ell out with Fight Academy ("Dennis is my type of person and I'm very happy with him"), used Frank Maloney ("Frank is a good guy who we will work with again" (As long as SKY insist aye") and after getting destroyed (Yes DESTROYED, that's what happened - so get over it) you sign a multi-fight deal with Golden Boy. They only want you, not because you are a great fighter - exciting yes- but not great, because you bring a massive crowd with you, which none of their fighters do. They are TV Promoters and cannot actually promote shows in the Don King way, who have they ever built up in the same way you were? No one. Simply put, you make good economic sense to them. Please don't try and make us believe otherwise - it is as obvious to us as the nose of your face.

Now it appears the Hatton philosophy and delusion has rubbed off on Joe Calzaghe (I won't be leaving Sports Network like Ricky did, Frank and me are fine") whose take on the situation is slightly different but equally as absurd. For years he struggled to fill his local arena yet was happy to fight fringe contenders or good fighters past their best in between withdrawing from every other fight with yet another injury. Yet finally when he cracks it by turning on a world class display against Jeff Lacy HER IN THE UK he expects millions to be instantly poured into his bank and everyone forget the rubbish they've put up with for the years previous.

I wonder how much Eubank cost to be pursuaded to come out of semi-retirement to give Joe a marquee name to fight for a vacant title against? Does he not remember that or appreciate the job that's been done with him whilst he spent years building up to a meaningful fight due to a lack of TV interest and his own unreliability?

Again, like Hatton, after the house has been built they want to be the one to fit the final ridge tile and take all the plaudits for their success without a backward glane or acknowlegdement for their Managers, Promoters, Trainers and ultimately us, the fans.

Now Joe's beaten Hopkins - hardly Benn V McClellan was it? But he now thinks that we want him to fight Roy Jones Jnr and will pay anythbing for the privilage (7 Years to late but what the heck -Nelson V Fenech 3 was a treat!) Did he ask us what we wanted? Is this the same RJJ he's fighting and demanding millions for after he himself described him as 'shopworn and washed up' and said he was 'no longer interested in' in his very own autobiography?

Suddenly things have changed because and Joe's his own man now - A promoter no less - so Roy Jones Jnr, by beating a 'equally shopworn and washed up' Felix Trinidad is suddenly reinvented as Superman and a living legend by Joe himself! Why? Greed, cash and minimum risk that's why?

Pavlik was there, allegedly and Bob Arum had agreed it, a young hungry and dangerous hombre, the sort of fighter that legends fight. But no, not Joe, he wants us to put up the cash for the easiest option out there and that is Roy Jones Jnr a figher he wouldn't have wanted in his prime at ANY price.

In contrary to Hatton though, Joe explains "Jones is a living legend, I wanted my last fight to be in front on my own fans at the Millennium Stadium, which I think we would fill for this - but it was not available so the second choice was Madison Square Garden. New York would be cheaper for my fans to get to than Vegas"

Doh! I hear you say.....Hatton say's Vegas is cheaper than New York yet Joe say's otherwise so which one of these is telling the truth? Which one of these guys has actually taken the time to find out the cost of travel and hotels for their fans? The answer is neither of them of course because quite frankly they don't care a hoot about us and come out with all these ridiculous statements and quotes to make us think that we really are important to them, which clearly we are not - well at least not as importnat as the cash in our pockets that ultimately ends up in theirs.

So come on lads show us how much you really care. The Millennium Stadium IS available on 20th September and the MEN Arena DO have dates in November too. Two phone calls is all it takes to find out, I know I called them - you can reverse the charges they said they'd love those events.

You say you have the choice and that you are now the promoters and also that you control your own destinies, so you, and we, can no longer ship the blame for this onto Warren, Hobson or whoever - so go on show us you do care and bring these fights to the UK where the majority of the people who buy the tickets are living.

If you don't then at least give us the respect of stating that you are only in it for the money and as much as you can stuff into your already bulging pockets.

Unless you bring these fights to the UK and stop making excuses then I for one, after years of supporting you both will be leaving mine in my wallet this time and you will be acknowledging that since branching out on your own your careers have become just one big money grabbing exercise.

Perhaps I'm wrong but nevertheless, I would be interested to know if anyone out there shares my frustrations and thoughts.

[rhino222]

i agree completely, they are chasing pound signs, why the fornicate is calzaghe gonna fight an old has been like RJJ who has been KO'd twice, why is he not taking on pavlik/froch etc...

[hitman_hatton1]

couldn't resist mentioning froch there rhino.

give me jones over froch.

hanshaw and a faded tito over magee and reid anyday.

[Poncey]

Froch needs Lacy or Taylor on his resumé first. If Carl wasn't British we wouldn't be arguing his case.

[hitman_hatton1]

Froch needs Lacy or Taylor on his resumé first. If Carl wasn't British we wouldn't be arguing his case.

exactly.

someone like pascal has a similar undefeated record to carl and no one on here mentions him.

and pascal is gonna fight for the wbo interim title.

a title that calzaghe still has last time i looked.

[Ted]

Froch needs Lacy or Taylor on his resumé first. If Carl wasn't British we wouldn't be arguing his case.

Why?

he would batter the two of them.

or smoke their boots.

[Poncey]

Froch needs Lacy or Taylor on his resumé first. If Carl wasn't British we wouldn't be arguing his case.

Why?

he would batter the two of them.

or smoke their boots.

What existing opponent on Carl's resumé has proven this?

[Asterix]

Froch needs Lacy or Taylor on his resumé first. If Carl wasn't British we wouldn't be arguing his case.

Why?

he would batter the two of them.

or smoke their boots.

If he would then he should. He needs more exposure.

[Captain Hook]

Froch needs Lacy or Taylor on his resumé first. If Carl wasn't British we wouldn't be arguing his case.

Why?

he would batter the two of them.

or smoke their boots.

Then why hasn't he? Or gone over and fought Bute?

You saying he would doesn't mean he can. I personally think he would beat Lacy and struggle with Taylor.

[Autobarn]

Yes, their careers have been a tad transparent. Joe didn't even seem that pleased to get the Lacy fight - to get ALL the hordes of critics off his back - and after battering the guy revealed that he was about to pull out, and moaned that he didn't get paid a lot.

It isn't always about respect, mainly the money of course, which you can make a lot of fighting fringe guys for made up titles.

There are things happening to counteract this in UK boxing. TV channels aren't so inclined to put up with rubbishy titles now, so you'll never see Ricky Hatton Part Deux with some Manchester kid defending a WBU belt 28 times & making a fortune.

TV are also demanding better, more competitive fights (though not ITV, it seems).

Good point though, as Calzaghe and Hatton are free agents, "self promoted" or whatever, are they going to shamelessly cash in telling porky pies about what the fan wants, or are they going to really do something worthwhile (and make a lot of money at the same time)?

Calzaghe, to his credit, has said he will keep his super middle belt so he can fight Pavlik next year. The fans - if today's fans were a knowledgeable bunch - would hold him to it, or not turn up/subscribe.

[calcuttakid]

I hear the change of heart regarding the decision to vacate then change his mind in respect of the WBO title was because someone at the Board of Boxing Control, brought to his attention, that he was weeks away from beating Joe Louis' all time reign as a world champion. I doubt he'll defend it again and this is the only thought behind it. It said on fightnews that it was the Board who sent the letter for him on their letterhead so it kinda stacks up. Another example of Calzaghe hypocrisy.

[hitman_hatton1]

tbf some of joe louis title reign opponents were worse than calzaghe's.

the old bum of the month club.

[hitman_hatton1]

ha ha just looking thru joe louis title reign opponents.

one of em was called johnny paychek.

[black panther]

Good first post mate. I have to agree completely - Hatton and Calzaghe have contradicted themselves countless times with regard to taking the toughest challenges out there and doing it for the fans etc. I remember a few years back Calzaghe actually said himself that Roy Jones Jr was one of the guys he never really wanted to fight because he was that damn good, which is fair enough and pretty honest(this was when Jones was at heavyweight and looked like retiring soon). After knockout losses to Tarver and Johnson, Joe says he will never fight Roy as it would be a massacre and he is shot to bits. Lo and behold a year or so down the line and Joe has a fight lined up with Jones. But boxing is a tough game and boxers have a short working lifespan. They risk their health for our entertainment - so in that regard I don't blame Calzaghe and Hatton for wanting to make as much cash as they can and get out with their health intact. But just don't be expected to be considered all time greats/talk like you are legends when you confuse the phrases "sealing my legacy" with "increasing my bank balance". In answer to the question, yes greed has taken over but these two are both in a position where they can dictate who they fight. Many great fighters had no option but to fight other greats for the big money - I'm not entirely sure they would have taken the toughest challenges out there if they could make good money fighting lesser opponents. Wasn't it Duran who said "any fighter who doesn't fight for money is lying"?

[Chambers2]

Excellent post CalcuttaKid you've got good reason to be narked, I wholeheartedly agree. Their glory has gone to their heads and they think they're the only people with a brain. It's insulting that they expect the fans to swallow the "we made the fight in X so it would be cheaper for the fans" bullshit they come out with, they must think that all their fans hang off their every word.

As you say, it's all about the money which is fair enough, but why treat their fans and followers like idiots with these pressers.

What really gets my fcuking goat with them is that they both claim they're in the sport for the glory then they choose to fight Lazcano and Paulie over Witter and a faded RJJ over Pavlik. Neither of them could lie straight in bed. Thank the lord for new wave of British BIG time boxers in David Haye and Carl Froch!! I've not travelled to Vegas for a fight yet, mainly because I'm waiting for Haye and Froch to get over there, because I'd begrudge giving Hatton the drippings off my nose tbh, due to his risk/reward ratio matchmaking

[Twinkle Toes]

Boxing is a business, as frank Wárren knows, due to the millions it has made him - What's the problem?

[Chambers2]

Boxing is a business, as frank Wárren knows, due to the millions it has made him - What's the problem?

Twinkle, have you read the thread?

[fatboy2008]

To answer the thread title, yes I think greed has taken over.

[Twinkle Toes]

Twinkle, have you read the thread?

Yes mate, and it's a very well written piece, but the question was: Has greed taken over?

For sure it has, but like I said, it's a business and Calzaghe/Hatton are looking to cash in - So yeah, they are greedy bastards, but so what.

I won't be lining their pockets by going to watch them, just as I didn't when they where having their cushy fights under the SN banner.

[Chambers2]

Twinkle, have you read the thread?

Yes mate, and it's a very well written piece, but the question was: Has greed taken over?

For sure it has, but like I said, it's a business and Calzaghe/Hatton are looking to cash in - So yeah, they are greedy bastards, but so what.

I won't be lining their pockets by going to watch them, just as I didn't when they where having their cushy fights under the SN banner.

Sorry I misread your post, I thought you were defending Warren wen it was JC and RH getting a bashing

[Gray-Fox]

They're chasing pound signs because they know now that

1) no-one thinks they're the best anymore
2) theyre actually not the best anymore

and

3) It won't be long before both of them lose (again in Ricky's case) if they continue in the top line...and they don't wanna leave the sport with nothing.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

sentimental tripe


Boxers going for the big payday and easy fights!

That never happened in my day*




















*Except it did, all the fooking time, its just that my rose tinted glasses get rosier with each passing year

[SticknMove]

Twinkle, have you read the thread?

Yes mate, and it's a very well written piece, but the question was: Has greed taken over?

For sure it has, but like I said, it's a business and Calzaghe/Hatton are looking to cash in - So yeah, they are greedy bastards, but so what.

I won't be lining their pockets by going to watch them, just as I didn't when they where having their cushy fights under the SN banner.

Ditto to your previous post and ditto to this one.

I wish both of them both all the best - if that means money albeit.

The only people that do not appear to complain are those that have spent 'disposable' cash to watch these events on which they headline and do not expect more than the fight/event in return. The diehard fan should know better. You pay your money to watch a fight/bill - that's where it ends. There's no further responsibilty from the fighter to the fan.

[Autobarn]

The problem is that the lucrative fights are no longer the best fights. Frankly, a load of garbage is being put on, at times. Used to be, Leonard and Hearns, Spinks and Qawi, would gravitate toward one another because they knew that was where the biggest money was for them at that time.

Nowadays, everyone seems to be "getting away" with something. Hatton v Malignaggi a "unification", Calzaghe v Jones a meeting between "legends at their best", Khan - "ready for a world title" - clearing out super featherweight and feasting on feathers in the meantime.

Ppl are told they are watching the sport at the highest level, which is a rotten stinking lie. They are being told that second best is best, that flailing combos, no defence and hugging are quality boxing.

Is that so good for things in the long run?

Yes, these guys have some loyal followings, they are "big names", they make money off the average fans' ignorance, but sadly there are not as many good fights being made as there could be.

[Autobarn]

That's true, but I'm just not looking forward to the next fights of Hatton and Calzaghe.

Jones should be retired by now, and Malignaggi will not blend with Hatton. It just feels like they're cashing out, which they are, and they sadly don't have to go for the best fights to do this.

Hopefully Haye works out well at heavyweight.