Leonard - Hearns II

[Flump]

I watched this one last night and came out with a score of 115-111 for Hearns, I thought in spite of a couple of bad rounds he was well in control, any opinions?

And incidentally I also watched Minter-Antuofermo I, had it 144-141 Minter. Just thought I'd share that with the world...

[p4p1]

i thought hearns won when i scored it cant remember the scores but i had hearns ahead

[bollox]

Hearns won that fight without any doubt whatsoever. What a ridiculous decision the draw was

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Hearns won that fight without any doubt whatsoever. What a ridiculous decision the draw was

I'm a Leonard fan and that was an embarrassingly bad decision...Leonard was down twice in that fight...Another game performance but not enough to win...

[bollox]

Hearns won that fight without any doubt whatsoever. What a ridiculous decision the draw was

I'm a Leonard fan and that was an embarrassingly bad decision...Leonard was down twice in that fight...Another game performance but not enough to win...

What was slightly odd was that Hearns looked happy when the draw was announced

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Hearns won that fight without any doubt whatsoever. What a ridiculous decision the draw was

I'm a Leonard fan and that was an embarrassingly bad decision...Leonard was down twice in that fight...Another game performance but not enough to win...

What was slightly odd was that Hearns looked happy when the draw was announced

When the announcement was made the night club I saw it in was shocked and it was a Leonard crowd...To me it was a pointless fight just as every fight Ali had after Manilla was pointless or all the fights Holyfield is having now...

Like in poker, it's better to leave with a little money on the table...

[My2Sense]

I think the best case you could make for Leonard was that the fight was even in rounds (six apiece) but the two knockdowns still have to give Hearns a points edge.

I think I scored the fight seven rounds to five for Hearns, with the two KDs giving him about a four point edge.

[Seamus]

Everyone remembers the 2 knockdowns but ignores the 5th and the 12th when Leonard gave Hearns a beating. Leonard is supposed to be the guy who get's away with everything, yet Hearns didn't even receive a caution in the final rd for excessive holding after Leonard had him in serious trouble.

[elmersalsa]

Everyone remembers the 2 knockdowns but ignores the 5th and the 12th when Leonard gave Hearns a beating. Leonard is supposed to be the guy who get's away with everything, yet Hearns didn't even receive a caution in the final rd for excessive holding after Leonard had him in serious trouble.

Bullcrap...Hearns kicked his ass

[Ambling Alp]

I love how elmer will say that Leonard is one of his favorite fighters with the hope that people think that people will think he can be objective toward him.

If you just watch the fight and judge it, it's a pretty close fight. Leonard did land more punches, and had Hearns hurt several times in this fight. If you just judge by rounds it's atleast an even fight.
If you are willing to score a round 10-8 which doesn't include a knockdown, but one guy has the other hurt, then you may have it an even fight because Leonard had two rounds like this.

A judge doesn't say that since one guy knocked the other guy down twice he automatically wins. They have to score the rest of the fight.

[elmersalsa]

I love how elmer will say that Leonard is one of his favorite fighters with the hope that people think that people will think he can be objective toward him.

If you just watch the fight and judge it, it's a pretty close fight. Leonard did land more punches, and had Hearns hurt several times in this fight. If you just judge by rounds it's atleast an even fight.
If you are willing to score a round 10-8 which doesn't include a knockdown, but one guy has the other hurt, then you may have it an even fight because Leonard had two rounds like this.

A judge doesn't say that since one guy knocked the other guy down twice he automatically wins. They have to score the rest of the fight.

That fight, definately was not close at all, alp. Even Sugar Ray admitted that Tommy won the second fight.

[giacomino]

I scored it 115-111 for Hearns as well. 7-5 in rounds, plus two knockdowns.
However, I had Antuofermo beating Minter by three rounds the first time. Roland Darkin should have been arrested for his scorecard in that one.

[granberry]

Leonard COULD NOT lose a decision.

Even when he was knocked down TWICE.

LOL

[Flump]

I scored it 115-111 for Hearns as well. 7-5 in rounds, plus two knockdowns.
However, I had Antuofermo beating Minter by three rounds the first time. Roland Darkin should have been arrested for his scorecard in that one.

Absolutely, that was an embarassment.

[Flump]

Leonard COULD NOT lose a decision.

Even when he was knocked down TWICE.

LOL

Well he lost a closeish one to Duran, though that wasn't in the hands of the usual Vegas suspects, thank God.

[Ambling Alp]

I love how elmer will say that Leonard is one of his favorite fighters with the hope that people think that people will think he can be objective toward him.

If you just watch the fight and judge it, it's a pretty close fight. Leonard did land more punches, and had Hearns hurt several times in this fight. If you just judge by rounds it's atleast an even fight.
If you are willing to score a round 10-8 which doesn't include a knockdown, but one guy has the other hurt, then you may have it an even fight because Leonard had two rounds like this.

A judge doesn't say that since one guy knocked the other guy down twice he automatically wins. They have to score the rest of the fight.

That fight, definately was not close at all, alp. Even Sugar Ray admitted that Tommy won the second fight.

Leonard has more class than some people who have an excuse for every loss.
Of course the fight was close. Leonard had Hearns in major trouble several times. He landed more punches in the fight.
You hate Leonard but pretend to be a fan.
If you really were a fan, you wouldn't have said added the after your astute statement" Bullcrap...Hearns kicked his ass"

Do you know what P- h- o- n- e- y spells?

[Seamus]

I'll bet the AMA would have given Leonard the fight.

[TigerMoth]

[quote="Ambling Alp"]I love how elmer will say that Leonard is one of his favorite fighters with the hope that people think that people will think he can be objective toward him.

If you just watch the fight and judge it, it's a pretty close fight. Leonard did land more punches, and had Hearns hurt several times in this fight. If you just judge by rounds it's atleast an even fight.
If you are willing to score a round 10-8 which doesn't include a knockdown, but one guy has the other hurt, then you may have it an even fight because Leonard had two rounds like this.

A judge doesn't say that since one guy knocked the other guy down twice he automatically wins. They have to score the rest of the fight.[/quote]

Although I am an advocate or 10 - 8 or even 10 -7 rounds, please give some examples where they have been scored without a knockdown.

Otherwise, your post is just another case of Leonard prejudice.

[Ambling Alp]

Larry Holmes won a 10-8 round on atleast one judges scorecard againt Ali,Scott Frank,Earnie Shavers, and Leroy Jones without scoring a knockdown in that round.

Same with Holyfield against Bert Cooper, Frank Tate did against Michael Olajide, Roy Jones against David Telasco. They got a 10-8 round in a particular round that didn't involve a knockdown. (in addition to 10-8 rounds that did involve knockdowns.)

There have been many other fights in which this has happened. Usually they don't tell you how individual rounds are scored, but if you do the math after they announce the judges scores you can sometimes tell that a judge had to have scored a round 10-8.

[TigerMoth]

[quote="Ambling Alp"]Larry Holmes won a 10-8 round on atleast one judges scorecard againt Ali,Scott Frank,Earnie Shavers, and Leroy Jones without scoring a knockdown in that round.

Same with Holyfield against Bert Cooper, Frank Tate did against Michael Olajide, Roy Jones against David Telasco. They got a 10-8 round in a particular round that didn't involve a knockdown. (in addition to 10-8 rounds that did involve knockdowns.)

There have been many other fights in which this has happened. Usually they don't tell you how individual rounds are scored, but if you do the math after they announce the judges scores you can sometimes tell that a judge had to have scored a round 10-8.[/quote]
Thanks. As I said, I like the idea of 10 -8 and 10 - 7 rounds. No reason a dominating round shouldn't be scored more favorably than one that is close.

[elmersalsa]

I love how elmer will say that Leonard is one of his favorite fighters with the hope that people think that people will think he can be objective toward him.

If you just watch the fight and judge it, it's a pretty close fight. Leonard did land more punches, and had Hearns hurt several times in this fight. If you just judge by rounds it's atleast an even fight.
If you are willing to score a round 10-8 which doesn't include a knockdown, but one guy has the other hurt, then you may have it an even fight because Leonard had two rounds like this.

A judge doesn't say that since one guy knocked the other guy down twice he automatically wins. They have to score the rest of the fight.

That fight, definately was not close at all, alp. Even Sugar Ray admitted that Tommy won the second fight.

Leonard has more class than some people who have an excuse for every loss.
Of course the fight was close. Leonard had Hearns in major trouble several times. He landed more punches in the fight.
You hate Leonard but pretend to be a fan.
If you really were a fan, you wouldn't have said added the after your astute statement" Bullcrap...Hearns kicked his ass"

Do you know what P- h- o- n- e- y spells?

Well alp, you saw it close...I did not. He got his ass whupped by Tommy, CLEARLY. IT WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ROBBERIES THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN.

[Ezzard]

10-8 rounds should be used more often IMO.

I think Hearns won. I alos think he won his rounds much more clearly in general which is why it's closer on the cards than when you just watch the fight.

Tommy should have got the decision but adding the points up it's not a landslide at all.

I gave ray one 10-8 round but not the 12th. I give that 10-9... the round is very easily divided up into 3 1 minute sections. Hearns dominates the first minute. he has ray hurt and seems to be on his way to a 10-8. Then Ray turns the tables and dominates the next minute... At this point I have it even then ray pulls away in the final minute.

Just my opinion...

Great fight though. These 2 would always be in close fights as they were both super talented.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

10-8 rounds should be used more often IMO.

I think Hearns won. I alos think he won his rounds much more clearly in general which is why it's closer on the cards than when you just watch the fight.

Tommy should have got the decision but adding the points up it's not a landslide at all.

I gave ray one 10-8 round but not the 12th. I give that 10-9... the round is very easily divided up into 3 1 minute sections. Hearns dominates the first minute. he has ray hurt and seems to be on his way to a 10-8. Then Ray turns the tables and dominates the next minute... At this point I have it even then ray pulls away in the final minute.

Just my opinion...

Great fight though. These 2 would always be in close fights as they were both super talented.

Splendid fight ...They don't make welterweights like them any more but that the second fight was at 160...

[Ezzard]

Was it 160 or 168? Ot wasn't there some stipulation from Leonard that they lose $1M for every pound they weighes over an agreed amount? I'm sure that was the case. The point is definitely made on the UK commentary.

A great rivalry though.

[p4p1]

Was it 160 or 168? Ot wasn't there some stipulation from Leonard that they lose $1M for every pound they weighes over an agreed amount? I'm sure that was the case. The point is definitely made on the UK commentary.

A great rivalry though.

it was 168