wasted talent over the years

[rhino222]

the recent run of '100 fights for ojay' thread etc has made me ask myself who has been the biggest waste of talent in british boxing history. i dont mean people like errol christie who had all the talent in the world but a weak chin, i mean people like (and dont take this personally) david barnes who has all the talent in the world but seemingly cannot settle with a trainer and is disrupted by his life outside the ring. but what i will say is that barnes has plenty of time and could still fulfill those world championship dreams.

[Gray-Fox]

Let me end this thread here...

Mental talent is as much as physical talent, especially in boxing. The guys you are looking for obviously haven't got any of the former in place of a little bit of the latter. It's a non-starter. Look where Zab Judah got with no mental talent...he still hit the top!! He leads/led just as troubled an out of ring existence as David Barnes who goes out partying (wow!) Guys like Barnes are just overrated after beating barely British level opponents.

[TerribleTerry]

Gray fox is on the money regarding the 'mental' side of the game.

Some fighters have all the physical gifts - speed, size, strength and co-ordination amongst others and look as though they should be world class talents but they lack the mental strength or stability to convert these physical 'gifts' into in-ring success.

One of the great modern fighters who has shown he is as mentally strong as he is physically capapble is our own Joe Calzaghe - the man is just a winning machine.

Someone like Sugar Ray Leonard held all the qualities a fighter should have - both mental and physical.

Gym fighters like Oliver McCall, Greg Page etc had all the physical tools but lacked the winner's mindset to convert their promise into achievement. Its not so much wasted talent as they were missing a key ingredient to succeed at the highest level - the mental side of the game that produces winners.

[Arbachakov]

For British fighters i'd go with John Conteh and Benny Lynch.

Both had the physical and mental ability when in the ring, but ran themselves into the ground with their mindset outside of it.

[sharry]

knocking out lennox lewis in 2 rounds is not what i call not succeeding !

[TerribleTerry]

knocking out lennox lewis in 2 rounds is not what i call not succeeding !

It was a result in isolation, a single right hand thrown and landed which put him to the fore front.

Compared to the physical tools McCall had - the Atomic Bull was one of the few who could spar evenly with a prime Tyson camp after camp - that brief glimpse of his potential prowess goes down as an under achievement for me; just look at what happened to him in the rematch!

[stujones]

Footwork is such an important physical characteristic in boxing that often gets over looked. McCall could punch, McCall had a granite chin, McCall though was very slow in cutting the ring down. Always struggle against boxers. The reason why he would hold his own against Tyson is cause he didn't have to go looking for Tyson.

On a British level, I've mentioned him once this week already - but I'd like to mention Patrick Mullings. Dynamite Power, fast hands, good defence and work rate.... looked the business.

[sharry]

you are right in one way he should have done more, but he wasted his talent by mostly drugs abuse which some class as a illness ( not my view) but in the rematch he was clearly not their !as for his sparring with tyson ,from my knowleage he come in to camp around late 88 when tyson start to take his eye off of the game (i could be wrong).but till still going in day to day with a tyson in his mid 20's takes some doing ,but also so does knocking out lennox lewis and still beating up ranked heavyweights .my waste of talent is tony ayala jr what a dick !

[sharry]

i loved mullings fight with oilver what a great fight!

[TerribleTerry]

Yeah Ayala blew a fortune - beating up world champs at 14 in sparring - he was a sure fire world champ in waiting.

Ayala v Duran would have been some fight.

[stujones]

I'd also hate to imagine how good Kirklaind Laing could have been if he was focused.

[sharry]

ayala vs duran nearly happened on some street in new york !shame it did not happen in the ring for all of us to see.many done well ams not much as pros kelly oliver 4 times aba champ no mean feat !

[hitman_hatton1]

dean francis.

ryan rhodes.

herbie hide.

[Scrap]

I think the phrase what makes great Fighters great is they Want it that bit more than the norm. The ones that dont usually didnt want it that much, Ive always called them the Players

[Coco]

I used to think boxing was all about physical conditioning, and then a bit of mental stuff, prob in a 90-10 split
I now think the opposite, if the mind is right that is 90% of the battle

[Poncey]

Benny Lynch - Had he stayed off the sauce, we'd be looking at the best "small" fighter of all time, not just flyweight.

Johnny Tapia - The fact he achieved what he did off his face on smack goes to show how good this fighter would've been had he stayed clean.

Zab Judah - If he had the mental focus, he'd have been better than Mayweather.

Danny Williams - If he had the confidence in his own skills, and stayed off the cherry bakewells, Danny would've won mutiple world titles.

Jack Doyle - Like Lynch, if he kept of the booze and his dinkle out of every woman on Earth, he'd have been Ireland's first World HW champion.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

What can you tell me about Tony Ayala, I hear about him been a prodidgy but know little other than he was locked up before he got his big chance

[chesh]

dean francis.

ryan rhodes.

herbie hide.

An injury-free Dean Francis would undoubtedly have attained world honours. His skills are a joy to behold. As far as Rhodes and Hide are concerned, I think they achieved as much as their weak chins would allow. Great punchers, entertaining fighters, but their whiskers would always let them down at top level.

[chesh]

What can you tell me about Tony Ayala, I hear about him been a prodidgy but know little other than he was locked up before he got his big chance

Teenage boxing prodigy, but sexual predator and serial sex offender. Spent his prime years in jail for brutal rape and battery and should probably never have been released, as evidenced by his subsequent reincarceration. There's no knowing how good/great he could have been.

[Poncey]

What can you tell me about Tony Ayala, I hear about him been a prodidgy but know little other than he was locked up before he got his big chance

Teenage boxing prodigy, but sexual predator and serial sex offender. Spent his prime years in jail for brutal rape and battery and should probably never have been released, as evidenced by his subsequent reincarceration. There's no knowing how good/great he could have been.

Duran conceded in an interview I saw that he was the greatest fighter he ever saw. I keep meaning to get some of his fights.

Copy + paste his career, to a lesser extent, Ike Ibeabuchi.

[chesh]

What can you tell me about Tony Ayala, I hear about him been a prodidgy but know little other than he was locked up before he got his big chance

Teenage boxing prodigy, but sexual predator and serial sex offender. Spent his prime years in jail for brutal rape and battery and should probably never have been released, as evidenced by his subsequent reincarceration. There's no knowing how good/great he could have been.

Duran conceded in an interview I saw that he was the greatest fighter he ever saw. I keep meaning to get some of his fights.

Copy + paste his career, to a lesser extent, Ike Ibeabuchi.

A good article on Ayala here:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-a ... -all-time/

[whiskey]

Danny Williams could have done better if he applied himself and wasn't so heavy. At times he was great and in a blink was dross.

Im not say hall of fame, but simply more achievments and consistency.

Judah has it all, but is a weakling. The way he lied to the doctor about not being able to see to get the fight stopped was typical judah. He knew he had given it his best, that Clottey was now starting to come on strong and thought he could steal the fight that way. He is a scumbag.

[Autobarn]

I don't like Judah either. I like watching other fighters beat him.

[Gray-Fox]

Judah better than Mayweather? No chance.

Even if he was mentally strong, he's got a weak chin.

[observer1]

Calzaghe. "Why!?" i hear you shout. Well, IMO He wasted his best years "fighting"in the same division.

Instead of going for Prime for Prime with the best, such as Roy Jones, Hopkins, Tarver and Trinidad etc. did...

With the 'guidance' of Warren, he stayed at the same division fighting mediocre fighters. The best fights he had were against an over-rated club fighter (lacy), Good (but not World-Class) Kessler and a 43 year old man Hopkins. An absoloute disgrace such a talented fighter has had such a poor resume, especially when he had the talten and oppurtunities to fight the best.

Ok, so Tarver, Hopkins and RJJ have lost, but Losses mean nothing when you have going prime for Prime against the best.

As a Calzaghe Fan, i feel he has just wasted his talent and had a very engineered career. OK so he would have probably lost against a Prime Hopkins and RJJ, but it's better to have lost Prime for Prime than to beat an over the hill past-champion.