Golota-Bowe

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I have never seen so many low blows and head butts...

[Robinson]

I agree...but what a war......

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I agree...but what a war......

Did they test for steroids back then?

Golota back is full of pimples like a steroid abuser...

[Robinson]

Randomly...

I have body building mates that are big and clean that have
pimples over there backs like that....

People would have to be naive to assume that upper tier boxers
or even not so upper ones are not using enhancers whether
they be steroids or HGH...heck alot of the thermogenics legal
in the USA are very much banned here in Oz...

Boxers that make alot of money like elite athletes in any other
sport have personal doctors and....access to good masking agents
so you figure it out...

What do you think Pachenco's role would have been with Ali all
those years during the 1970s ? They only banned PE's from boxing
in the late 1980s.......

[John Galt]

"What do you think Pachenco's role would have been with Ali all
those years during the 1970s ? They only banned PE's from boxing
in the late 1980s......."

Kym, that is blasphemy, blasphemy LOL. We've had these discussion before on boxing boards and we all know that only people who look like bodybuilders use steroids/PEs. Plus, we all know that PEs wouldn't help a boxer because boxers don't need added strength, speed, or power. Boxers only need to have a lot of fights like they did in the old days. Plus, we all know that if any athlete dares to use PEs, the test will catch them.

Modern athletes are tested - the average person has a 1 to 1 ratio of testosterone to the hormone epitestosterone (T-E ratio). The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) has placed some "flexibility" in its testing. WADA considers a urine test positive only if the T-E ratio exceeds 4 to 1. Thus some athletes "boost" thier T-E levels to ust below 4-1. (The 1 to 1 is for men, a woman's ratio is not that high, but for testing purposes men and women are allowed the same 4 to 1 ratio)

For Anabolic Steroids - Steroids are generally used to boost off season workouts. Anti-Doping tests that test in season are useless. In addition many steroids especially water based injectibles can clear the system in days. Even harder to detect are the "designer steroids" because of their customized molecular structures.

For Human Growth Hormone or HGH - A blood test for HGH is not available yet. There was hope that one would be available by the start of the Olympics.

(Info on testosterone, anabolic steroids and HGH from Sports Illustrated, March 17, 2008 page33)

Kym, I am sure that no boxer in the 1960s or 70s used PEs and I hope this information from SI has convinced you that it is not possible for an athlete to use PEs today and get away with it. Why would a doctor in the 1960s or 1970s prescribe PEs to a world class athlete? Sure the PEs were legal, and PEs were not tested for in any sport, but, we all know that it might give an unfair advantage to the user and what athlete would take that? Kym, are you underestimating the character of the athlete of yesterday?

[Ezzard]

PE's are a part of sport and everyone has always looked to gain an advantage.

The PE's available to day are far advanced to the ones being used back in the 70s, 80s etc... I don't think anyone really doubts this, do they???

Tests catch those who are set up by better connected rivals or those who don't follow the instructions they are given.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Did Dr. Ferdie Pacheco illegally prescribe steroids to someone and to whom?

And since that is a crime such evidence should be adduced and Dr. Pacheco should be subject to the regulations and punishments of the state board that licenses him which I would assume would include revocation of his license...

See how serious the allegation is...

If there is no evidence to support the allegation than the gentleman has been libelled, slandered , and is the victim of a calumny ...

[John Galt]

toih
Steroids and other PEs were legal in the 60s and 70s. If a doctor had a world class athlete as a patient and didn't "educate" the patient to the possible benefits of PEs would the doctor be guilty of malpractice?

[TheOneIsHere2008]

toih
Steroids and other PEs were legal in the 60s and 70s. If a doctor had a world class athlete as a patient and didn't "educate" the patient to the possible benefits of PEs would the doctor be guilty of malpractice?

My friend was a competitive bodybuilder in the 70's ...The dangers of them were already well known...There were , also at the time, many "steroids free" bodybuilding competition...

I know they used to talk about "Winstral" (sp) "Dianabol" (sp) et cetera...

But you do have me thinking...When did they become illegal?

Also, I'm not convinced as to their benefits but I am far from an expert on the topic...

I hate drugs... I don't even like aspirin...

[dempseyfire]

Looking at Ali and his physique, not to mention the testimony of everyone who was in his training camps in the 1970s, it's painfully clear Ali was not using steroids.

People seem to forget steroids don't work without being coupled with hard training. Ali in the 70s, especially post Zaire, was infamous for not training enough and just doing some running and sparring to get in shape.

[funso banjo baby]

Looking at Ali and his physique, not to mention the testimony of everyone who was in his training camps in the 1970s, it's painfully clear Ali was not using steroids.

People seem to forget steroids don't work without being coupled with hard training. Ali in the 70s, especially post Zaire, was infamous for not training enough and just doing some running and sparring to get in shape.

PE crazy...crazy PE

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Looking at Ali and his physique, not to mention the testimony of everyone who was in his training camps in the 1970s, it's painfully clear Ali was not using steroids.

People seem to forget steroids don't work without being coupled with hard training. Ali in the 70s, especially post Zaire, was infamous for not training enough and just doing some running and sparring to get in shape.

Up until Zaire he was usually in good shape and sometimes in great shape...With his body type he could have easily weighed up to 250 pounds with five or six percent body fat if he lifted weights... He would have sacrified a great deal of foot speed... I wonder how much hand speed he would have sacrificed... I read that he only trained six days for the first Spinks fight...The second fight was a different matter...He did 8,042 sit ups in the last forty days I believe...That's a lot of sit ups...

Some athletes hate to train and some love to train and see training as an extension of playing or in a boxer's case, fighting...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Looking at Ali and his physique, not to mention the testimony of everyone who was in his training camps in the 1970s, it's painfully clear Ali was not using steroids.

People seem to forget steroids don't work without being coupled with hard training. Ali in the 70s, especially post Zaire, was infamous for not training enough and just doing some running and sparring to get in shape.

PE crazy...crazy PE

What does that mean?

[Robinson]

It amazes me when people think of PE's their minds go to
body building....BIG difference.

One would be naive to think that a fighter that has a doctor
in his camp, would not be trying things that at the time
were legal and in their relative infancy.

Big muscles do not equal - steroids or HGH....

I have a friend that cycles for the AIS...he is very lean,
very small framed....and guess what...he is well...training
with the best that science has to offer.

[My2Sense]

Did they test for steroids back then?

Golota back is full of pimples like a steroid abuser...

Yep. The joke back then about Golota was, he showed every indication of taking steroids - except proof.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Did they test for steroids back then?

Golota back is full of pimples like a steroid abuser...

Yep. The joke back then about Golota was, he showed every indication of taking steroids - except proof.

I re-read my posts... I am reluctant to accuse anybody of doing something unethical or illegal, even a public figure, but Golota does exhibit many of the characteristics of a steroids abuser from the impulsive behavior to the pimple on his back...

But, "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

[Ambling Alp]

I'm willing to give Golota the benefit of the doubt. Does it really matter?
If he was, he certainly didn't gain from it. If anything, it's casts yet more doubt on the benefits of being juiced in boxing.

Golota was probably just head case. He has bit a guy, headbutted a guy for absolutely no reason (vs Darnell Nicholson), quit for little reason in a fight he was winning (vs Grant) quit for no reason (vs Tyson) showed in no condition to fight (vs Lewis) and got disqualified in two fights against Bowe that he could have won.

You wonder what a Bowe-Golota fight could have been if Bowe was at his best and Golota didn't foul. There is a good chance that Golota still could have given him a tough fight.

[Robinson]

I agree with Alp..regardless of Golota's idiocy and
lack of intelligence and character at time...when
(as few times that it is) that he is good, he gives
alot of guys a hard time.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

I'm willing to give Golota the benefit of the doubt. Does it really matter?
If he was, he certainly didn't gain from it. If anything, it's casts yet more doubt on the benefits of being juiced in boxing.

Golota was probably just head case. He has bit a guy, headbutted a guy for absolutely no reason (vs Darnell Nicholson), quit for little reason in a fight he was winning (vs Grant) quit for no reason (vs Tyson) showed in no condition to fight (vs Lewis) and got disqualified in two fights against Bowe that he could have won.

You wonder what a Bowe-Golota fight could have been if Bowe was at his best and Golota didn't foul. There is a good chance that Golota still could have given him a tough fight.

Riddick Bowe had a short prime... I watched the Golota fight...He was getting hit with everything Golota threw at him and Golota is far from a quick fighter...

[Robinson]

But one thing Golota is, is big, strong and athletic with
good fundamentals. A solid jab and good chin (at that time)...

[TheOneIsHere2008]

But one thing Golota is, is big, strong and athletic with
good fundamentals. A solid jab and good chin (at that time)...

I did not like the intentional low blows and head butts... They seemed pointless...

Sometimes they occur by accident but that wasn't the case with Golota...

For instance I don't think Holyfield intentionally head butted Tyson...

[Robinson]

Guys like Chuvalo made a career of such tactics...
Marciano was far from saintly, elbows and the likes..
head butts followed Holyfield around...
Ali was notorious for dragging smaller mens heads down...
Lewis was the king of the boxing guilotine..
Foreman loved to shove fighters away...
Leonard liked to bolo low....
Duran was the master at inside nastiness...

Golota was not succesful nor was he as subtle in his
applications...he just lacked the sophistication of the
other men.

[TheOneIsHere2008]

Guys like Chuvalo made a career of such tactics...
Marciano was far from saintly, elbows and the likes..
head butts followed Holyfield around...
Ali was notorious for dragging smaller mens heads down...
Lewis was the king of the boxing guilotine..
Foreman loved to shove fighters away...
Leonard liked to bolo low....
Duran was the master at inside nastiness...

Golota was not succesful nor was he as subtle in his
applications...he just lacked the sophistication of the
other men.

All illegal tactics but different than hitting a guy in the nuts...

[Robinson]

Marciano, Chuvalo, loved the fist in the groin...

[oliverfennell]

Looking at Ali and his physique, not to mention the testimony of everyone who was in his training camps in the 1970s, it's painfully clear Ali was not using steroids.

People seem to forget steroids don't work without being coupled with hard training. Ali in the 70s, especially post Zaire, was infamous for not training enough and just doing some running and sparring to get in shape.

PE crazy...crazy PE

What does that mean?

Like chocolate, even vanilla

Chocolate, strawberry, sasparilla