Pardon sought for the late, Great Jack Johnson

[gubber_singh]

I haven't posted in a long time, but I felt that this story was definitely worth posting for all the readers of boxrec. Please see the following link, and for all boxing fans, please read Graeme Kent's "The Great White Hopes" for perspective into Johnson AND many of his opponents.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7639015.stm

[Diamond WEAPON]

I read about this on Yahoo yesterday. I'm glad that it may happen, Johnson deserves to be pardoned.

[HomicideHenry]

I dont. As much as he was harassed, he brought alot of it on himself. he relished in the fact that he knocked white men out, and even more so rubbed it in everyone's face that he slept with white women. He wanted to be the villian, yet history says a different story, that he wanted so much to be the hero. He was an ATG fighter yes, but as a human being, Johnson was more than just controversial, he was sometimes a down right awful human being. He was quoted as saying, in a church no less, that religion was a crutch for the weak; any which way for himself to get attention, thats what he did.

Pardon him all you want to, but to me such figures as Malcom X and Martin Luther King were just as bad, they went more than out of their way to be in places they knew damned well people didnt want them to be in or apart of, but did it anyways and rubbed in peoples faces that they were now going to do whatever the hell they wanted. At least Johnson got the good end of what they received, at least people wanted to see his ass get KTFO first before they threw him away into the rubbish and kept him far and away from the rankings again.

Personally, I dont blame them for doing so.

[Big Ben]

I hope you're kidding..

[HomicideHenry]

I'm not kidding. I give the man all the credit in the world for being an ATG heavyweight, and I also list him as one of the few who could have defeated Muhammad Ali in his prime. But otherwise, thats how I feel, what I just stated above.

[Big Ben]

I'm talking about the King comment.

[HomicideHenry]

I mean that as well. Lincoln done did King's job for him, all it ever would need is time to make things all better, what was the damn rush? Blacks could vote, and had just as many rights as any white man did in his (King) time. He, along with X and others, pushed and pushed and many a race riot in my mind was started because of their attitudes, causing mass hysteria and telling blacks that white men were devils and blacks no longer had to listen to white man authority. Hell, King from time to time more or less stated he felt he was a 'Saviour' that he was a second coming. The man was all out for trouble, and I dont care how history wants to paint it out as being, there are two sides to every story and somewhere in between the truth lies. The man was no angel, but he certainly wasn't the devil either. But mark my words, he had his own agenda, and it isnt the picture perfect one high schools and Black History month specials want to paint it out to be.

[Loynesy]

I'm guessing HH, you don't have much of an education, because that is the only way to excuse the breathtaking ignorance of some of your comments.

[JAHamilton77]

this topic should get interesting.

I believe that Johnson violated both the spirit and letter of the law in the man act, BUT I feel he should be pardoned 100%.

1. The letter of the law is flawed in so much as it is filled with vague language that leaves far too much latitude to authorities in it's enforcement. Yes Johnson violated the clause in it that dealt with "prostitution", but this term is lumped in with immorality (vague term) and human trafficking which I believe is the key term which is linked to "prostitution". The actual name of the act you see is the "White Slave Traffic Act", which leads me to believe that when referring to prostitution, especially when linked with the term human trafficking, they do not mean a man hiring a prosistute in one state and doing the deed in another state, but instead "pimps" (for lack of a better word) going into one state to obtain women (especially by forceful means) to work in an illegal business in another state. Thus though Johnson did take women across state borders for purposes of prostitution, violating the letter of the law, I dont believe it was the law's true intent.

2. As far as the spirit of the law goes, I will go alittle more philisophical. I am not sure what Mann as the crafter of this bill meant for its spirit to be. Reading through it, I believe the spirit that was meant to be conveyed was what I stated above in the Letter of the Law explanation. That is a mere veil though to the true spirit. I believe part of the true spirit was to snare black men, and thats why much of the language was vague.
So though Johnson did not in my opinion violate the conveyed spirit the public was supposed to see in this set of laws, he did break what was the true spirit the laws were written in.

So though Johnson my have been 100% guilty, I believe due to undertones of the time, that this was not in the interest of justice and should be pardoned.

[JAHamilton77]

God I hope that made sense, since I didnt bother proofreading it

[earl of queensbury]

I dont. As much as he was harassed, he brought alot of it on himself. he relished in the fact that he knocked white men out, and even more so rubbed it in everyone's face that he slept with white women. He wanted to be the villian, yet history says a different story, that he wanted so much to be the hero. He was an ATG fighter yes, but as a human being, Johnson was more than just controversial, he was sometimes a down right awful human being. He was quoted as saying, in a church no less, that religion was a crutch for the weak; any which way for himself to get attention, thats what he did.

Pardon him all you want to, but to me such figures as Malcom X and Martin Luther King were just as bad, they went more than out of their way to be in places they knew damned well people didnt want them to be in or apart of, but did it anyways and rubbed in peoples faces that they were now going to do whatever the hell they wanted. At least Johnson got the good end of what they received, at least people wanted to see his ass get KTFO first before they threw him away into the rubbish and kept him far and away from the rankings again.

Personally, I dont blame them for doing so.

So I guess you won't be voting for Obama, huh?

[Diamond WEAPON]

I mean that as well. Lincoln done did King's job for him, all it ever would need is time to make things all better, what was the damn rush? Blacks could vote, and had just as many rights as any white man did in his (King) time. He, along with X and others, pushed and pushed and many a race riot in my mind was started because of their attitudes, causing mass hysteria and telling blacks that white men were devils and blacks no longer had to listen to white man authority. Hell, King from time to time more or less stated he felt he was a 'Saviour' that he was a second coming. The man was all out for trouble, and I dont care how history wants to paint it out as being, there are two sides to every story and somewhere in between the truth lies. The man was no angel, but he certainly wasn't the devil either. But mark my words, he had his own agenda, and it isnt the picture perfect one high schools and Black History month specials want to paint it out to be.

I guess you haven't missed a Klan meeting in a while huh?

[Brute]

It was not in the spirit of the law. The Mann Act was meant as a deterrent for prostitution. It was never meant for the purpose it was used for against Johnson. After that it became a nuisance to prosecutors, with Mann Act prosecutions taking up court time and holding up the prosecution of real crime. Most after that resulted in fines. Can anybody name anybody other than Johnson and Chuck Berry who were imprisoned under the act?

The House has voted to recommend the pardon anyway. I can't see Bush refusing it, he would just look silly.

[HomicideHenry]

No I wont be voting for Senator Obama, and not because of the color of his skin, but because I honestly dont buy into the whole "Change We Can Believe In" slogan he has. Lets get real here, it takes roughly four years before any kind of change takes place when a president comes into office. The way I see it is this, how can you promise so much, when you know damn well it will take alot of time for anything to take place? Obama, if he does become president, will end up a one-termer when people dont see the magical changes he promised.

Way I see it, most politicians, if not all of them, are liars by certain degrees. The best man for the job is the one who will A) tell you what you dont want to hear, and/or B) whose the most honest about the situations to come or at hand. At least McCain is being honest in saying that he'll keep the soldiers in Iraq and it would take some good years to "win" the war over there, rather than Obama who more or less suggests that if we straight up leave and keep our noses out of Iraq or any other countries business we will be safe.

What sounds more logical to you? If you dont vote for Obama you're a racist, if you do, to older Americans you're a person lover. Its a double edged sword. Personally, I think the mans too inexperienced, too flamboyant, promises too much, and has too many strikes against him as far as where his money is coming from [being funded by terrorists, by loan sharks] and lets not forget his so-called Christian heritage where he only attends all black churches with ministers who preaches about white devils.

As far as me missing a Klan meeting....I never attended one, but I'll stand up and say my great-grandfather donned the hood and cape for the Klan and not only went after blacks and mexicans, but after dead beat fathers who didnt take care of their children, as well as molesters, rapists, thieves and wife beaters.

[Robinson]

I dont. As much as he was harassed, he brought alot of it on himself. he relished in the fact that he knocked white men out, and even more so rubbed it in everyone's face that he slept with white women. He wanted to be the villian, yet history says a different story, that he wanted so much to be the hero. He was an ATG fighter yes, but as a human being, Johnson was more than just controversial, he was sometimes a down right awful human being. He was quoted as saying, in a church no less, that religion was a crutch for the weak; any which way for himself to get attention, thats what he did.

Pardon him all you want to, but to me such figures as Malcom X and Martin Luther King were just as bad, they went more than out of their way to be in places they knew damned well people didnt want them to be in or apart of, but did it anyways and rubbed in peoples faces that they were now going to do whatever the hell they wanted. At least Johnson got the good end of what they received, at least people wanted to see his ass get KTFO first before they threw him away into the rubbish and kept him far and away from the rankings again.

Personally, I dont blame them for doing so.

Hang the n#gger, eh

[Robinson]

Regardless of how any one looks at it, we can al agree that it was an
ugly part of American social history. When law makers looked beyond
just laws for all man, became impassioned by race and ugly social views.

[Loynesy]

HH

I cant work out whether to despair of you or ignore you. You are fundamentally dumb on so many levels, but the delicious irony, is that you do not think so.

[bollox]

As a great man said a few years ago when this issue came up "leave it exactly as it is as a vivid reminder to what Jack and many like him had to go through"

[Robinson]

White washing history condemns us to repeat it.

[JAHamilton77]

As a great man said a few years ago when this issue came up "leave it exactly as it is as a vivid reminder to what Jack and many like him had to go through"

It'd still be on the history books that it happened.
It would just say after it, that he was later pardoned of the crime.

[JAHamilton77]

It was not in the spirit of the law. The Mann Act was meant as a deterrent for prostitution. It was never meant for the purpose it was used for against Johnson. After that it became a nuisance to prosecutors, with Mann Act prosecutions taking up court time and holding up the prosecution of real crime. Most after that resulted in fines. Can anybody name anybody other than Johnson and Chuck Berry who were imprisoned under the act?

The House has voted to recommend the pardon anyway. I can't see Bush refusing it, he would just look silly.

Basically you are saying he did violate the spirit, it just became expidient not to prosecute folr jail time afterwards.

I actually dont think Johnson violated the "conveyed spirit" as the law was supposed to look like it was meant to stop illegal enterprises transporting girls across statelines to conduct business (as opposed to customers transporting them). I mean if its a customer, then how is is "White Slavery" or "Human Trafficking" when the girl goes willingly. The "true spirit" or atleast part of it I believe was to help snare men like Johnson in a legal loophole of the law, created by its vague language.

Thats is just my take on the situation, I could be wrong.

[DG.]

I dont. As much as he was harassed, he brought alot of it on himself. he relished in the fact that he knocked white men out, and even more so rubbed it in everyone's face that he slept with white women. He wanted to be the villian, yet history says a different story, that he wanted so much to be the hero. He was an ATG fighter yes, but as a human being, Johnson was more than just controversial, he was sometimes a down right awful human being. He was quoted as saying, in a church no less, that religion was a crutch for the weak; any which way for himself to get attention, thats what he did.

Pardon him all you want to, but to me such figures as Malcom X and Martin Luther King were just as bad, they went more than out of their way to be in places they knew damned well people didnt want them to be in or apart of, but did it anyways and rubbed in peoples faces that they were now going to do whatever the hell they wanted. At least Johnson got the good end of what they received, at least people wanted to see his ass get KTFO first before they threw him away into the rubbish and kept him far and away from the rankings again.

Personally, I dont blame them for doing so.

I better ask Amy WhineHouse.

DG: Amy!

Amy: What?

DG: If I said Homicide Henry was a hick/red neck Klansman would I be wrong?

Amy: Me say, No No No!

[black panther]

Homicide, with regards to black ministers making speeches about "white devils" I think you are confusing the black christians with black muslims. But generally I'm still in a bit of shock at your view points. But you're entitled to your opinion so lets leave it at that. This is a boxing forum after all.

[juggalo4life]

the law jack johnson was prosecuted for didnt apply for him it was an anti pimping/human trafficing law,jack johnson was only guilty of being a customer/john but got prosecuted because he was black this pardone should of been done a long time ago injustices like this still go on and allways will since judges who clearly understand the law dont throw out injustice cases instead they let the prosecuters and cops have their way if any one is to blame for this injustice its the cops,judges,prosecuters.

[Horse]

I'm guessing HH, you don't have much of an education, because that is the only way to excuse the breathtaking ignorance of some of your comments.

If he is ignorant: why don't you point out the ignorant points in his posts?

HH

I cant work out whether to despair of you or ignore you. You are fundamentally dumb on so many levels, but the delicious irony, is that you do not think so.

Point out why he is dumb or be quiet.