Is there another sport....

[EddieShredder]

Where the british public as a whole are so ill-informed, yet seem to think they have a great knowledge of, as boxing?

It's one of those sports, where everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks they know who'd knock who out etc.... yet, almost their entire knowledge is fed to them by biased media and tv companies, ultimately selling a product.

An example in todays metro... a poll asking who britains best ever boxer is. I doubt the results will be surprising, but just highlight how big an influence the media is in building a star, and just how the public lap it up.

1) Calzaghe (49%, from memory)
2) Lewis (app 25%)
3) Hatton

My argument isn't that Calzaghe, and Lewis, don't deserve to be up there - although not at the very top.... but that if this question is asked in a years time, people would likely be saying David Haye, and Carl Froch.

Either way, if the public reads an article about football, rugby, cricket etc they'll generally form their own opinion and agree or disagree.... whereas with boxing, they just lap up whatever they read - and regurgitate it down the pub as though they'd sat thinking about it all night over hours of footage.

I guess it's because boxing is one of those sports "men" think they have to know about, or it's cool to know etc...

(Incidentally, in an interview with Haye this morning, it quoted his stats as weighing 215. We'll see how accurate that was at the weigh in, but i'd be surprised if he's anywhere near that light)

[Thundercat]

I disagree with you there, I believe the media will still agree that Calzaghe/Lewis will be in top 2 in a years time even if Haye and Froch remain unbeaten and face credible opponents along the way.

[Datsue]

Where the british public as a whole are so ill-informed, yet seem to think they have a great knowledge of, as boxing?

It's one of those sports, where everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks they know who'd knock who out etc.... yet, almost their entire knowledge is fed to them by biased media and tv companies, ultimately selling a product.

An example in todays metro... a poll asking who britains best ever boxer is. I doubt the results will be surprising, but just highlight how big an influence the media is in building a star, and just how the public lap it up.

1) Calzaghe (49%, from memory)
2) Lewis (app 25%)
3) Hatton

My argument isn't that Calzaghe, and Lewis, don't deserve to be up there - although not at the very top.... but that if this question is asked in a years time, people would likely be saying David Haye, and Carl Froch.

Either way, if the public reads an article about football, rugby, cricket etc they'll generally form their own opinion and agree or disagree.... whereas with boxing, they just lap up whatever they read - and regurgitate it down the pub as though they'd sat thinking about it all night over hours of footage.

I guess it's because boxing is one of those sports "men" think they have to know about, or it's cool to know etc...

(Incidentally, in an interview with Haye this morning, it quoted his stats as weighing 215. We'll see how accurate that was at the weigh in, but i'd be surprised if he's anywhere near that light)

It's one of those things. Violence has its own way of creating mythologies. People like to buy into these mythologies, as a way of dealing with the violence inherent in the sport. The mass media exists by propagating & disseminating mythologies.

I may have used the word "mythologies" far too much for one morning, but
my point (if I have one) is that from the "Boston Strong Boy" to "Iron Mike", the media have created personas that don't die in the public's eye, long after the actual flesh & blood dude doing the fighting is walking on his heels.

It's one of those odd things about pro boxing; like how guys don't earn the top, top money until they are ever-so-slightly (or completely in some cases) past their peak.

[dbf]

I agree with your assessment that the casual/sports fan seems to want to know about boxing as it seems cool to do so. I get disinterested when speaking to these people in the pub during the build up to a fight.

Its just the same old crap regurgitated from the newspapers with little of their own thought or opinion. The majority of the time I don’t say anything back just nod and agree because an informed opinion would likely not be valued.

You can bet any money that there will be plenty of Monty(sic) Barrett know it all’s come tomorrow night, talking freely about his bouts with Valuev, Fields and Klitshcko, having never seen him fight.

[Hagler2002]

Prime example was the ramp Hatton received from the media in the build up to the Mayweather fight, everyone I mentioned it to told me how Ricky was going to smash him to bits

Not that I was complaining mind, with all the patriotic money on Ricky it just kept pushing the price out on Floyd.

[Goz]

I agree with your assessment that the casual/sports fan seems to want to know about boxing as it seems cool to do so. I get disinterested when speaking to these people in the pub during the build up to a fight.

Its just the same old crap regurgitated from the newspapers with little of their own thought or opinion. The majority of the time I don’t say anything back just nod and agree because an informed opinion would likely not be valued.

You can bet any money that there will be plenty of Monty(sic) Barrett know it all’s come tomorrow night, talking freely about his bouts with Valuev, Fields and Klitshcko, having never seen him fight.

I was going to post exactly that

It does seem very cool to 'know your boxing' and if necessary bluff that you do.

On a football forum I frequent they have an off-topic section and some of the lads on there were telling me how Bernard Hopkins was a knockout artist with a 'massive dig' in the build up to his fight with Calzaghe. I said he had no chance of hurting Joe so how silly did I feel when Calzaghe was put on his arse in the first round

[Poncey]

I agree with your assessment that the casual/sports fan seems to want to know about boxing as it seems cool to do so. I get disinterested when speaking to these people in the pub during the build up to a fight.

Its just the same old crap regurgitated from the newspapers with little of their own thought or opinion. The majority of the time I don’t say anything back just nod and agree because an informed opinion would likely not be valued.

You can bet any money that there will be plenty of Monty(sic) Barrett know it all’s come tomorrow night, talking freely about his bouts with Valuev, Fields and Klitshcko, having never seen him fight.

I was going to post exactly that

It does seem very cool to 'know your boxing' and if necessary bluff that you do.

On a football forum I frequent they have an off-topic section and some of the lads on there were telling me how Bernard Hopkins was a knockout artist with a 'massive dig' in the build up to his fight with Calzaghe. I said he had no chance of hurting Joe so how silly did I feel when Calzaghe was put on his arse in the first round

There is nothing worse than when some complete tool gets it right by accident. I had it once at work when a guy made a correct prediction and said he knew more about the sport than me. I was not arsed as he was pissed at the time, but there were ladies present and I had to step up to the plate. It mildly annoys me just to think of this guy thinking he is a boxing expert. He is balding, fat and talks like a gay drama student. Actually he is very similar to many boxing experts.

I'm not fat, damnit! :x

[Hagler2002]

I'm fat, balding and have been experiencing queer dreams about partaking in some back door action recently

[Ezzard]

It is one of those things. People vote for the current vogues. How many people have sat looking at 'Top Ten' lists scratching their heads at the fact Robbie Williams was at number 2 (I am thinking of that 'Artists of the Millenium' show here, and ever 'Q' poll ever taken).

The problem with the general public is that someone told them that everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if they know sweet Fanny Adam about the subject at hand. So anyone can jump in, voice an opinion, and when you point out that they are wrong some liberal type will chime in with, "Maybe they are not wrong, anyway, like, everyone is, like, entitled to their opinion. Who are you to, like, say it is wrong! That is sooooo fascist!!" Erm, a person with more knowledge/expertise than you in this field is talking. So shut it.

People should not be allowed to take place in polls until they have been screened adequately. Boxing is no different than anything else, every dickhead thinks they have a worthy grasp on it. Half of them would have voted for Mike Tyson given the choice. Their defence for voting Tyson the best British boxer ever? "Well he was, innit?"

It goes to show that if you want to get something hopelessly wrong all you have to do is stop a member of the great British public and ask them to provide you with the information.

I agree. This idea that everyone's opinion is valid is a disaster. Maybe a consequence of democracy...

Anyway, it's a load of cr*p. You get ill you go to the doctor. You get sued you go to a lawyer.

Most people tend to just pick the guy who they grew up liking. Those years 13-18 are forever with us. And the people who were big at that point in our lives are the ones we often champion. Add this to the fact that most casual observers notice power and speed and leave it at that...

Also, who the f*ck votes? Surely nobody over the age of 16 bothers to phone a vote in or text 'Calzaghe' to some poll organiser.

[Ezzard]

Aye, it chaffes my arse.

"He is entitled to his opinion."

"No he is not. He is thick. He is fat. He is a Sunday league ref."

Emerson, Hagler, you are a big fat gay disgrace, and I don't mean that in a "Look how jolly that fat man is" sense.

'Enititled to his opinion' basically means don't wake him up out of his ignorance. Don't point out what he's obviously lacking...

It's rife in the UK. Non-competitive sports days. Little Johnny can't read? Lets change the exams so it appears he can read. Feral kid is under-parented? Lets create a whole new category of illnesses so the aprents don't have to feel bad about the fact that they never disciplined their kid. BUT my favourite is the obesity/alcoholism/whatever is a disease...

My blood pressure is up. I'm leaving the thread...

[Maelstrom]

Where the british public as a whole are so ill-informed, yet seem to think they have a great knowledge of, as boxing?

It's one of those sports, where everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks they know who'd knock who out etc.... yet, almost their entire knowledge is fed to them by biased media and tv companies, ultimately selling a product.

An example in todays metro... a poll asking who britains best ever boxer is. I doubt the results will be surprising, but just highlight how big an influence the media is in building a star, and just how the public lap it up.

1) Calzaghe (49%, from memory)
2) Lewis (app 25%)
3) Hatton

My argument isn't that Calzaghe, and Lewis, don't deserve to be up there - although not at the very top.... but that if this question is asked in a years time, people would likely be saying David Haye, and Carl Froch.

Either way, if the public reads an article about football, rugby, cricket etc they'll generally form their own opinion and agree or disagree.... whereas with boxing, they just lap up whatever they read - and regurgitate it down the pub as though they'd sat thinking about it all night over hours of footage.

I guess it's because boxing is one of those sports "men" think they have to know about, or it's cool to know etc...

(Incidentally, in an interview with Haye this morning, it quoted his stats as weighing 215. We'll see how accurate that was at the weigh in, but i'd be surprised if he's anywhere near that light)

Good post.

This syndrome of 'experts' is occuring in every area - politics, football, health, cooking, pyschology - but is particulalry prevelant in boxing.

I am sick and tired of listening to people in pubs who know f### all, but sit there lording it like they are the ultimate authority. They have no in-depth knowledge and, as many of you have said, spit out the same old shit.

However - ironically - I do see it happening on here a bit, (but nowhere near as much).

People come out with some ridicolous blanket statements, but I do believe sometimes there is a bit of a lack of knowledge about what really goes on behind the scenes.

[banjo]

Personally I know very few people who are boxing fans or should I say informed boxing fans.

Like when Hatton fought Mayweather they were all placing Ricky amongst the top 5 British fighters of all time before the bout, but afterwards one of my mates said to me "That Mayweather bloke is actually quite good isn't he" Then they jumped on the Mayweather bandwagon calling him a "legend" Greatest of all time etc. etc.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Why should boxing be any different, the general masses are thick as hogshite - they believe what they are told no matter what field it is - politics, history - sport.

With football, it's a lot easier to deduce the truth, the team which keeps coming out on top of the league is going to be the best team - it is unassailable.

However, boxing is so subjective, and if people keep ramming down their throats that Calzaghe is the best ever and a living legend etc, and all they have seen is people jerking off on TV over his performances against Hopkins and Jones, plus all the stiffs he fought like Manfredo, who was hyped up to be a dangerous and credible opponent - why wouldn't they believe he's the greatest ever.

Have they ever heard of Jimmy Wilde or Kid Berg? Of course they bloody haven't, do you think a 16 year old Arsenal Fan knows who Stanley Matthews were, or Garincha? Course they bleedin' dont.

Polls like this are to be ignored, just like P4P lists and all time Great lists, all are subjective and influenced by the latest figures in the sport, because that is what most people remember.

If you were to talk about greatest 140 lbers out there, how many people reckon Aaron Pryor would get a mention if you put that poll on a non-fans website. Of course not. They wouldn't know who the bloody hell he was.

Go and look at the Internet Movie Database, and look how many of the top 250 movies of all time are modern films, many of them don't deserve a place in there at all - it's quite clear that many are there because people vote for the films they are familiar with.

[Mario]

Back to the point Terry made about them accidentally getting it right now and then, wasn't i embarrassed when i told everyone who would listen that Graham Earl wasn't gonna be like the rest of Khan's opponents and had a real chance against him, i even persuaded one or two to get a few quid on him as the price was massive.

Similarly when he fought Prescott, they were all raving about this huge puncher from Brazil who was Khan's biggest test yet, just like the SN press releases tried to kid them, yet there i was again telling them it was a joke fight and they'd all been conned, trying to explain how Prescott hadn't beaten anyone.

I think i'll be keeping quiet for the next couple of weeks just in case Paulie doesn't pick Hatton off all night and the twice a year fans start telling me i don't know what i'm talking about again.

[EddieShredder]

Earl/Khan got me too...

Years back I had an argument with a pissed Scotsman, about how as Tszyu was an infinately better fighter than Hatton, and how he'll show him up for the protected hype job he is

[Datsue]

Back to the point Terry made about them accidentally getting it right now and then, wasn't i embarrassed when i told everyone who would listen that Graham Earl wasn't gonna be like the rest of Khan's opponents and had a real chance against him, i even persuaded one or two to get a few quid on him as the price was massive.

Similarly when he fought Prescott, they were all raving about this huge puncher from Brazil who was Khan's biggest test yet, just like the SN press releases tried to kid them, yet there i was again telling them it was a joke fight and they'd all been conned, trying to explain how Prescott hadn't beaten anyone.

I think i'll be keeping quiet for the next couple of weeks just in case Paulie doesn't pick Hatton off all night and the twice a year fans start telling me i don't know what i'm talking about again.

Just scream "I use science to make my picks!", then flounce out of the room.

It is hard to explain. I think if you know a fair bit about something you can see numerous scenarios, and you get caught between them all. Then there is the question of how things should work out. For example Jermain Taylor should have defeated Kelly Pavlik, twice. Meaning that the fight that really took place was unreal, or a mistake, you then try explaining that to people and they think you are making excuses.

In the real world Taylor should have defeated Pavlik, in this nonsensical reality he did not, meaning I came second to some guys from Ohio who predicted the fight correctly, purely by accident, and after consulting their local 'wise pig'.

It is a pain in the hole. My girlfriend correctly predicted Tszyu-Hatton, the disappointment of Audley Harrison and other fights, sometimes by just saying "He looks a proper tough bastard! I am going for him by KO."

Never underestimate the wise words of your significant other when it comes to boxing predictions. Me & the missus sat & had a DVD night (taking a break from our scintillating social lives, natch) in anticipation of Cotto-Margarito, & she goes, after Margs-Kermit II & midway through Judah-Cotto:

"If this Puerto Rican fella had his bell rung by this tiny black dude, what's he going to do when that great big bloke with the goatee takes his shots then grins at him? The Mexican is going to mess him up big time."

I laughed & explained once again the niceties of the sweet science, the subtle traps & techniques a fighter can utilise when facing a strong opponent & she replied:

"Nah, look, the Mexican walked right through that big lanky Puerto Rican, why's he going to be afraid of a smaller one? All Cotto does is use his size to beat guys up & he's going to be the smaller bloke here."

I patted her head & said something patronising. Two nights later, of course, Tony splattered Cotto. My head has been hung in shame since.

[Counter-puncher]

I have fortunately never yet had to eat any words I have said to casual boxing fan mates. I have even given them pearls of wisdom such as 'don't be surprised if Hopkins knocks Calzaghe down early, or if the judges score it a split decision', told them Floyd outclasses hatton/ Haye smashes Macc, etc. its more difficult with fantasy 'Ali vs Tyson' debates where you can never get the chacneto be proven right.

its difficult not to play the know-it-all with casual fans. So i don't bother trying not to. I use phrases like 'but what you need to know is ...... ' , and Terry D's line 'Erm, a person with more knowledge/expertise than you in this field is talking. So shut it.'
if that fails I just say 'we'll see', then mercilessly harp on about the fact that I was right and they were wrong when I see them next.

datsue that post made me

[EddieShredder]

Back to the point Terry made about them accidentally getting it right now and then, wasn't i embarrassed when i told everyone who would listen that Graham Earl wasn't gonna be like the rest of Khan's opponents and had a real chance against him, i even persuaded one or two to get a few quid on him as the price was massive.

Similarly when he fought Prescott, they were all raving about this huge puncher from Brazil who was Khan's biggest test yet, just like the SN press releases tried to kid them, yet there i was again telling them it was a joke fight and they'd all been conned, trying to explain how Prescott hadn't beaten anyone.

I think i'll be keeping quiet for the next couple of weeks just in case Paulie doesn't pick Hatton off all night and the twice a year fans start telling me i don't know what i'm talking about again.

Just scream "I use science to make my picks!", then flounce out of the room.

It is hard to explain. I think if you know a fair bit about something you can see numerous scenarios, and you get caught between them all. Then there is the question of how things should work out. For example Jermain Taylor should have defeated Kelly Pavlik, twice. Meaning that the fight that really took place was unreal, or a mistake, you then try explaining that to people and they think you are making excuses.

In the real world Taylor should have defeated Pavlik, in this nonsensical reality he did not, meaning I came second to some guys from Ohio who predicted the fight correctly, purely by accident, and after consulting their local 'wise pig'.

It is a pain in the hole. My girlfriend correctly predicted Tszyu-Hatton, the disappointment of Audley Harrison and other fights, sometimes by just saying "He looks a proper tough bastard! I am going for him by KO."

Never underestimate the wise words of your significant other when it comes to boxing predictions. Me & the missus sat & had a DVD night (taking a break from our scintillating social lives, natch) in anticipation of Cotto-Margarito, & she goes, after Margs-Kermit II & midway through Judah-Cotto:

"If this Puerto Rican fella had his bell rung by this tiny black dude, what's he going to do when that great big bloke with the goatee takes his shots then grins at him? The Mexican is going to mess him up big time."

I laughed & explained once again the niceties of the sweet science, the subtle traps & techniques a fighter can utilise when facing a strong opponent & she replied:

"Nah, look, the Mexican walked right through that big lanky Puerto Rican, why's he going to be afraid of a smaller one? All Cotto does is use his size to beat guys up & he's going to be the smaller bloke here."

I patted her head & said something patronising. Two nights later, of course, Tony splattered Cotto. My head has been hung in shame since.

Awesome

[DavidPayne]

The missus is sharp analyst too.

Although she often has curious reasons, "ooh I don't like him, he looks a bit seedy".

"You should've been with me on the Russian convoys" I'll reply.

"Fancy a jam sandwich*" she'll respond

"Yeh"

Nights literaly evaporate in our house.

*This does mean two slices of bread with jam in between.

[EddieShredder]

So, to conclude.... this thread clearly proves that;

• The general public know f@ck all about boxing yet pretend to be knowledgable
  
  We convince ourselves we're knowledgable, yet often get outwitted by pissheads and women
  
  Our wives and girlfriends don't even claim to be knowledgable, or purport to give a f@ck, yet seem to know far more than they let on and will gladly show us up at any opportunity

Brilliant.

[EddieShredder]

So, to conclude.... this thread clearly proves that;

• The general public know f@ck all about boxing yet pretend to be knowledgable
  
  We convince ourselves we're knowledgable, yet often get outwitted by pissheads and women
  
  Our wives and girlfriends don't even claim to be knowledgable, or purport to give a f@ck, yet seem to know far more than they let on and will gladly show us up at any opportunity

Brilliant.

Yeah, good work Eddie. A Friday well-spent.

I feel like I've achieved something today.

Granted, it's not what I planned for the day when arriving at work this morning, but nonetheless, we've all come away having learnt something.

My work here is done

[EddieShredder]

You plan your day? Fair play.

Unfortunately inconsiderate bosses, and needy clients seem to plan it for me between them.

Bastards.

[My Name Is Earl]

Polls and the public don't go well together. Never have, never will.

Years ago, Keegan was voted a better footballer than Best. The dreaded poll should have been banned there and then.

[banjo]

Polls and the public don't go well together. Never have, never will.

I think it will improve once they've integrated into our society more, it is a new country after all

[Kilburn]

I wish Sky would stop talking about Valuev v Holyfield while showing footage of a Holyfield v Maddalone press conference. Slightly misleading.