Boxing vs UFC - thoughts in the wake of Saturday night...

[Deserter]

So, now the euphoria over the Froch fight is starting to die down slightly, I do want to reignite an important debate.
I didn't buy the SKy PPV but having heard the reports and also witnessed a couple of bouts on the undercard of Froch, it struck me that there's one crucial thing in UFC's favour over boxing... I don't think I've ever witnessed a fight in UFC where the other fighter wasn't trying to win.
I realise this touches on the old debate about the place of 'trial horses' in boxing, but while I loved the Froch fight, I was equally bored senseless by seeing the glorified spar between Perry and Taylor and the farcical mismatch involving Fury. The latter is impossible to justify as there are plenty of fighters closer to Fury's weight and size that could have allowed him to get a few rounds under his belt without it being a 50/50 'pick 'em'.
McIntosh vs Laight was another one where you already knew before the bell had rung that one fighter was only going to 'go through the motions' and was there purely to make the local prospect look good.
Now even aside from the Froch fight the Hennessy card was redeemed by the likes of David vs Wright, and what this fight crucially did was add further weight to the fact that the need for one of the fighters to have an unbeaten record is a complete myth. This is something the UFC have cottoned on to, and consequently hardly any of its stars have the magic 'zero' ledger in their lost colum - because they are frequently put into genuinely competitive fights.
We also have to remember that while those of us who constitute 'hardcore' fans may appreciate a look at Perry, for example, and use the Taylor 'spar' to benchmark him against other prospects, the 'average Joe' will just be bored senseless at seeing some young lad dance around an old, balding fella who looks about two weight divisions below him.
All around me on Saturday night I heard grumbles about this type of fight and the Fury mismatch, and if boxing is to grow or even maintain its audience in the fact of competition from the likes of UFC I do think it has to address this ongoing problem. What does everyone else think?

[Poncey]

To be honest, squash matches do happen in UFC as well. But hardly ever and usually due to pull outs (which you could technically use as an argument for the Fury fight, as it was late notice). At UFC 89 Carwin fought Wain (although I didn't think this was late notice [Ant/T Terry do you know?]). Another that springs to mind is Cabbage v Arlovski. Although, to be fair to Cabbage, he did try and throw back. But I'm nit picking as that was a late pullout. Elite XC is a different story, but they're dead so why bother moaning. I was impressed to see Fury in a 6 rounder, instead of 4. Hayemaker did the same with Groves.

My feeling is that the education of the boxing fan needs to be addressed. Especially the armchair fan. In MMA less onus is placed on records, because they tend to be evenly matched. In Boxing, especially in the UK, there's an onus on a fighter having an unbeaten record. This is something that I think has only accumulated in the last 15 to 20 years.

Boxing shows need to be improved. Fact is, excluding the buy rates for Sat, HBO buy rates since the summer have been absolutely disgraceful because the fans are sick of paying $55 for essentially a main event. The revenue is available out there, which was proven by the buy rate for Lesnar v Couture (second biggest ever for UFC after Ortiz v Shamrock).

There's only one title (with an occasional interim, which is only used in instances of sense, e.g. Randy coming back and I thought when Sherk was suspended, but not sure [Ant/TT can confirm]). So you know who's the best in a weight division (who's the best WW right now? exactly). There's no interim, champion and super champion like the WBA are doing with a greater frequency.

The weight divisions makes sense in UFC since the rule changes after UFC 30. There's not too many of them (although I do think UFC should add a Featherweight division, but I appreciate it would probably take away some great talent in WEC). I just want to see Faber on TV instead of chuffing Internet streams. What would improve boxing is having less divisions in the lower range where they're split by a few pounds. The lower divisions have a great talent pool, so why dilute it more than it needs to be?!

Network TV has MMA on it, so why is it seen as a special occasion to have a decent fight on terrestrial?! Arum has stated recently that the key to brining success back to boxing is network TV. He's right. It builds the star so that in a few years time when said fighter has a superfight you make more money because the armchair fan has already seen them fight.

Boxing has the building blocks to make itself successful, but it needs to get its head out of its ass thinking that UFC is "just a fad", because it ain't. Instead, Promoters need to look at the Zuffa business model and learn/steal from it. Until it does, UFC and WWE will continually bash boxing PPV buy rates.

The only smear on MMA in my opinion is the use of performance enhancing drugs. Too many fighters have been caught. Now I'm not naively saying that they aren't in boxing, but I do think they're used more frequently by MMA fighters to improve strength as there's a greater onus on it in MMA, than boxing.

[Deserter]

To be honest, squash matches do happen in UFC as well. But hardly ever and usually due to pull outs (which you could technically use as an argument for the Fury fight, as it was late notice). At UFC 89 Carwin fought Wain (although I didn't think this was late notice [Ant/T Terry do you know?]). Another that springs to mind is Cabbage v Arlovski. Although, to be fair to Cabbage, he did try and throw back. But I'm nit picking as that was a late pullout. Elite XC is a different story, but they're dead so why bother moaning. I was impressed to see Fury in a 6 rounder, instead of 4. Hayemaker did the same with Groves.

My feeling is that the education of the boxing fan needs to be addressed. Especially the armchair fan. In MMA less onus is placed on records, because they tend to be evenly matched. In Boxing, especially in the UK, there's an onus on a fighter having an unbeaten record. This is something that I think has only accumulated in the last 15 to 20 years.

Boxing shows need to be improved. Fact is, excluding the buy rates for Sat, HBO buy rates since the summer have been absolutely disgraceful because the fans are sick of paying $55 for essentially a main event. The revenue is available out there, which was proven by the buy rate for Lesnar v Couture (second biggest ever for UFC after Ortiz v Shamrock).

There's only one title (with an occasional interim, which is only used in instances of sense, e.g. Randy coming back and I thought when Sherk was suspended, but not sure [Ant/TT can confirm]). So you know who's the best in a weight division (who's the best WW right now? exactly). There's no interim, champion and super champion like the WBA are doing with a greater frequency.

The weight divisions makes sense in UFC since the rule changes after UFC 30. There's not too many of them (although I do think UFC should add a Featherweight division, but I appreciate it would probably take away some great talent in WEC). I just want to see Faber on TV instead of chuffing Internet streams. What would improve boxing is having less divisions in the lower range where they're split by a few pounds. The lower divisions have a great talent pool, so why dilute it more than it needs to be?!

Network TV has MMA on it, so why is it seen as a special occasion to have a decent fight on terrestrial?! Arum has stated recently that the key to brining success back to boxing is network TV. He's right. It builds the star so that in a few years time when said fighter has a superfight you make more money because the armchair fan has already seen them fight.

Boxing has the building blocks to make itself successful, but it needs to get its head out of its ass thinking that UFC is "just a fad", because it ain't. Instead, Promoters need to look at the Zuffa business model and learn/steal from it. Until it does, UFC and WWE will continually bash boxing PPV buy rates.

Good post fella.

[Poncey]

Need to lie down. Hand hurts. It's a good subject to debate. There's some posters that have some great, knowledgeable, opinions on MMA v Boxing, and it's something that should be talked about without stuffy synicism towards MMA that alot of pugilistic purists have towards the sport.

And Southampton had its first every contact sport World Champion on Sat when Tom Watson won the World Middleweight championship. D

[Counter-puncher]

dessie you mention mcintosh - laight as a poor match

i am going to stick up for Laight a bit here, (and by implication Hennessy I suppose) he was way outgunned by McIntosh (who by the way, IMO, looks like a poor man's kell brook or something and not the best Ingle prospect I have seen by a long chalk) but he clearly had his dander up. I mean it, Laight was more aggressive than I have seen him in maybe 15 fights or more, i think mcintosh's annoying chatter plus the bigger occasion than Kristian is used to, meant he was giving that performance your average journeyman does sometimes. from memory, the 3rd round Laight must have been up in the 50s, punchcount wise. that's the stratosphere for the average journyeman-survivor like Laight.

plus mate it was Mcintosh's 3rd fight who do you expect him to be in at that stage in his career>>? if it was his 10th fight i could understand but i don't think it was ridiculous matching for where he is at right now.

[Deserter]

What I think some of the more 'traditional' boxing fans fail to realise is that to it's in active competition with UFC for 'eyeballs' and revenues (the two tend to be intrinsically linked) and among the younger generation, boxing is by and large losing that particular fight, which will have severe repurcussions for its future if it doesn't address it soon.

[Deserter]

dessie you mention mcintosh - laight as a poor match

i am going to stick up for Laight a bit here, (and by implication Hennessy I suppose) he was way outgunned by McIntosh (who by the way, IMO, looks like a poor man's kell brook or something and not the best Ingle prospect I have seen by a long chalk) but he clearly had his dander up. I mean it, Laight was more aggressive than I have seen him in maybe 15 fights or more, i think mcintosh's annoying chatter plus the bigger occasion than Kristian is used to, meant he was giving that performance your average journeyman does sometimes. from memory, the 3rd round Laight must have been up in the 50s, punchcount wise. that's the stratosphere for the average journyeman-survivor like Laight.

plus mate it was Mcintosh's 3rd fight who do you expect him to be in at that stage in his career>>? if it was his 10th fight i could understand but i don't think it was ridiculous matching for where he is at right now.

Fella, I agree that Laight gave a more spirited showing that normal, but the incontestable fact remains that you and I both knew categorically that Mcintosh was going to win that fight before it started - the fact that he put in a bit more of an effort is hardly a strong defence. For me, part of the massive buzz of following boxing is when you have two fighters about to face one another and while you favour one over the other, you equally know that you could be wrong (Froch vs Pascal being a perfect example). If this sense of anticipation isn't there, you're essentially watching a glorifed sparring session.
I think a prospect (and I use the term loosely as I had exactly the same thoughts you've stated) like Mcintosh could easily be matched with a fighter who'd actually come to win, and if it resulted in him losing and spoiling his '0' then my whole point is that this doesn't really matter. In many cases you can argue that it's better for the fighter's development than being fed a trial-horse like Laight.
What did you prefer watching, the Mcintosh vs Laight fight or the David vs Wright one? I know which one I did, and it didn't have anyone's unbeaten record on the line.

[Counter-puncher]

fair enough. to an extent my whole post there was a symptom of some pretty low expectations and typical of what gets bred by the matchmaking tendencies in boxing. Laight throws 50 punches in a couple of rounds vs a sub-british level prospect and I am leaping in to laud his efforts believe me i know what you mean.

i missed wright - david though, saw the first one it was a superb fight.

leads me to mention- english title fights are nearly always good fights. it's like the fighters in most cases are on the same level and both tend to come to fight.

one thing i wonder about having prospects matched 'too' tough early in their careers. they say with teaching football to kids that making it too competitive, too early, tends to make for an english-style game, less skills, more physicality. and this can maybe detract from the ability of players to adapt to a more skills-based european type game as and when they get to the top level. is there, maybe, a case in boxing for the same kind of argument? that young pros 'need' the easier workouts to develop all aspects of their skills? and that maybe if they get matched closer, earlier, they maybe are more likely to spend more time mauling?

[Poncey]

Spot on c-p. I saw the first one too, and it was also a cracker. Although the decision was dubious at the end. It's like we're in the Matrix and the Promoters are our Architects. We need to pull out the wires, stand and back, and realise what we've been programmed to appreciate as a good card.

Could you imagine a boxing card of the quality that UFC 92 has? Top Rank are trying to make something of that magnitude for the summer for PR day, but I don't think we'll ever get a boxing card as good as that one, as much as it pains me to say.

[EddieShredder]

Could you imagine a boxing card of the quality that UFC 92 has? Top Rank are trying to make something of that magnitude for the summer for PR day, but I don't think we'll ever get a boxing card as good as that one, as much as it pains me to say.

Nope, I can't see a boxing card of that quality ever happening to be honest. Too much politics between promotors for a start, but also too much greed from promotors and TV execs - who would want 3 or 4 seperate events that would generate far more $$$.

Back to your point in a previous post, about there being a great debate to be had about Boxing vs UFC - there is, but unfortunately, as has been proved countless times on forums, the debate gets quickly ruined by [mainly boxing, I'm afraid to say] fans who fail to recognise mma as a legitimate sport - and therefore a good model to follow.

[Deserter]

i missed wright - david though, saw the first one it was a superb fight.

leads me to mention- english title fights are nearly always good fights. it's like the fighters in most cases are on the same level and both tend to come to fight.

one thing i wonder about having prospects matched 'too' tough early in their careers. they say with teaching football to kids that making it too competitive, too early, tends to make for an english-style game, less skills, more physicality. and this can maybe detract from the ability of players to adapt to a more skills-based european type game as and when they get to the top level. is there, maybe, a case in boxing for the same kind of argument? that young pros 'need' the easier workouts to develop all aspects of their skills? and that maybe if they get matched closer, earlier, they maybe are more likely to spend more time mauling?

I only saw Wright-David on TV as I'd Sky-Plus'ed everything When I saw it I was absolutely gutted I hadn't seen it live.
Interesting points about the prospects, though it didn't appear to harm fighters of 'yesteryear' by and large, and you could also argue that the amateur game should provide that function to a degree (though I suspect we'd all agree that given the divergence of the two codes in recent years it's less a good grounding than ever before).
To adopt your football analogy, I'd say that having the young prospects of Man U or Arsenal playing the likes of Nuneaton or Weston-Super-Mare wouldn't prepre them for the intense competition that is the Premiership, and that playing their counterparts at Manchester City and Liverpool would be far more beneficial to their long-term development.
To take things one step further, if, for example, Cleverley and Mckintosh fought for the English and Commonwealth titles in their next fight, do we really think that the loser's career would be over, or do we think that actually, they'd both continue to develop and grow as they're both talented, and consequently a rematch further down the line could be yet another fight to look forward to?
Some defeats can actually be career-ending, confidence-shattering etc, but not that high a percentage of them to be honest. And you can make a strong argument for saying that it's those who have articifically padded records that lose most confidence after finally losing a fight against a 'live' opponent, rather than those who've been matched competitively from day one - look at the likes of Hopkins for example, or even McGuigan.
I'll never forget our own mini-golden era that could/should have been, when we had wealth of talent in the domestic light-middle scene (Roberts, Alexander, Takaloo, Farnell etc), yet none of those matches came off when they should have done, which was a really damning indictment.

[Poncey]

I though the first David v Wright was okay, but not as engrossing as the second fight. I too thought David won the first one, just, mind. Horrible fight to score, that one.

[Counter-puncher]

wright's workrate pulled it out in the last 3rds IMO, in the 1st fight, EPMG, IMO.

dessie- all good points, thought it's worth asking the question tho.

i would dearly love to contribute to a boxing/mma debate however am too ignorant on MMA. all i know about it is I really liked the pride 2005 MW tournament

[thaibox uk]

Need to lie down. Hand hurts. It's a good subject to debate. There's some posters that have some great, knowledgeable, opinions on MMA v Boxing, and it's something that should be talked about without stuffy synicism towards MMA that alot of pugilistic purists have towards the sport.

And Southampton had its first every contact sport World Champion on Sat when Tom Watson won the World Middleweight championship. D

nice one Tom top guy refereed him a few times in thaiboxing.
i refereed a big show last night in Bournemouth with a lot of highly
skilled thai and kickboxing bouts but it was the 3 mma bouts and 3 white collar boxing bouts that really got the crowd going.
The average punter wants to see two well matched blokes beating the crap out of each other and are not really worried about the skill factor.

[Eraserhead]

The UFC, as purely a promotional company, knocks spots off of any boxing counterpart - whether we're talking Fwank Warren or Golden Boy Promotions. They're all stuck in the stone age compared to the UFC. The UFC put on the best shows, with the best production values and with the best fights. In a show consisting of 10 fights, you'll get only one or two mismatches in a UFC show. The ratio is completely reversed at a boxing show.

The key is the UFC brand. UFC shows don't sell out on account of who is topping the bill. The UFC sells out because it's the UFC. You know what you're going to get when you witness a UFC show. Fact - the UFC can sell more tickets at an arena in the UK (let's say the O2 or the NIA) without even announcing one fight, than any British promoter can with a full line-up revealed. That's what you call a brand. Do you reckon you could shift 5,000 tickets for a Sports Network show without announcing one fight? Purely selling it out the Sports Network brand? Nope.

The UFC is just a far slicker machine right now. For example, you'd never get the joke scenes witnessed on HBO Saturday at a UFC show. Waiting 45 minutes for the main event to start because the undercard was so shitty and finished early? That's suicide.

Boxing has for too long been about making a quick buck and not caring about the longevity of the sport or the entertainment of the fans (hence the increasingly piss-poor undercards and lack of stars coming through). This is no better exemplified by all the 30-somethings getting together at late stages in their careers and making lots of money together. Who wins? Certainly not boxing. Certainly not the fans.

The UFC on the otherhand have to worry about the state of their sport. They have to worry about the enjoyment of the fans. They are an emerging company in an emerging sport. They still have ground to break and they use boxing as a template of how NOT to do things. Boxing has become too complacent for too long and MMA are right there at the door ready to kick them outside. Despite what boxing people say, it's a reality. The numbers don't lie

[Poncey]

Need to lie down. Hand hurts. It's a good subject to debate. There's some posters that have some great, knowledgeable, opinions on MMA v Boxing, and it's something that should be talked about without stuffy synicism towards MMA that alot of pugilistic purists have towards the sport.

And Southampton had its first every contact sport World Champion on Sat when Tom Watson won the World Middleweight championship. D

nice one Tom top guy refereed him a few times in thaiboxing.
i refereed a big show last night in Bournemouth with a lot of highly
skilled thai and kickboxing bouts but it was the 3 mma bouts and 3 white collar boxing bouts that really got the crowd going.
The average punter wants to see two well matched blokes beating the crap out of each other and are not really worried about the skill factor.

Can you let me know if there's any in the area next time as I might pop along? Finding out about contact sport round here is a nightmare.

[thaibox uk]

Need to lie down. Hand hurts. It's a good subject to debate. There's some posters that have some great, knowledgeable, opinions on MMA v Boxing, and it's something that should be talked about without stuffy synicism towards MMA that alot of pugilistic purists have towards the sport.

And Southampton had its first every contact sport World Champion on Sat when Tom Watson won the World Middleweight championship. D

nice one Tom top guy refereed him a few times in thaiboxing.
i refereed a big show last night in Bournemouth with a lot of highly
skilled thai and kickboxing bouts but it was the 3 mma bouts and 3 white collar boxing bouts that really got the crowd going.
The average punter wants to see two well matched blokes beating the crap out of each other and are not really worried about the skill factor.

Can you let me know if there's any in the area next time as I might pop along? Finding out about contact sport round here is a nightmare.

No probs I have a gym in Weymouth and we compete on a lot of shows in the area

[MR UNTOUCHABLE]

We are missing an important point here, probably the MOST important one in this debate.

The UFC are in effect the 'sole' promoter in the UFC they have under contract ALL of the fighters in the UFC.

When a boxing promoter / matchmaker 'wants' to make a fight it sets off a series of 'awkward' discussions.

1. The manager might not be up for it as he wants to protect his fighter hoping he's going to get to championship level later on SO why take a risk?
2. If the manager will then he asks the trainer who has a very real and direct influence over the boxer. Often a trainer will see a boxers loss as a direct relection of his own abilities so will hold his boxer back to improve his own credentials. If the trainer wants to he can soon talk the fighter out of it.
3. Finally, believe it or no, many of todays young boxers love telling their muckers that they are unbeaten pro boxers. It makes them feel good. A loss on the record would not bolster their self image. Self image is something that many of todays young boxers hold VERY VERY dearly.

So there's many steps their for something to trip the whole thing up. PLUS there are always the modern classic lines of £, need more, not been in gym, can't get weight off in time!

Compare with the UFC.

Promoter calls the fighter, "This is where your on, this is how much your getting. Happy? Good man". Now if the fighter says no then what? Nowhere to go!
This is where the UFC has a fantastic advantage. It has 100% COMPLETE CONTROL over everything and everybody.

As you can see there is a HUGE difference involved.

[Poncey]

It's an excuse often used, but with the talent that GBP has at its disposal there's no excuse. Plain and simple. They have the best stable in boxing and produce the shittiest shows of any major North American Promoter. And still get HBO PPV status for it.

Either boxing evolves, or by recent ticket sales and PPV revenue (both here and in the UK) it will die on its arse. A Promoter will go down the toilet. Simple as that. I can't remember the last time attendances at shows were as bad as they are in the UK for major shows.

If Promoters want to thrive in the chocca climate of contact sports now, they need to give the punter value for money. The arm chair fan doesn't care for excuses about fighters being with other Promoters, or exclusive TV contracts. He wants to see bang for his buck. Especially in the current economic climate.

[MR UNTOUCHABLE]

IMO GBP are probably the worst of all of the U.S promoters.

Like you say they have the most talent at their disposal but put on the worst shows. WHY?

Simple really, the boxer is the promoter. Boxers want all of the money, why pay out for expensive undercards? No need to, the PPV and the gate will be the same no matter what so the punters (that's you and me) can go fook oursleves (as they say stateside).

Remeber the old Audley undercards on the BBC? EXACTLY the same! Why? Cos the boxer is the promoter and WANTS all of the MONEY.

Put that with HBO giving them preferential treatment and it equals.... CRAP for us boys, crap for us!

[Poncey]

When GBP launch their first MMA or MMA & Boxing PPV that could be interesting for the MMA fan if they're as bad as their Boxing cards. Could dent the sport.

[Poncey]

I'd love to, but I've been a massive Silva nut-hugger since his Cage Rage days. ;;-)

Can we have Filho soon, please. Or WEC on UK TV. Make is so Mr Evans.

[EddieShredder]

Interesting thoughts, gents. Really appreciate the compliments to UFC.

Shane Carwin v Neil Wain wasn't short notice fight. Wain was coming in as 5-0 with all 5 being first round KOs. I think Neil let the occasion get to him and rushed Carwin a little, but he hurt Carwin with left hook and cut him. That's more than anyone else has done to Shane but I think Carwin is already an elite level fighter in UFC heavyweight division and will prove that in 2009. Up close he’s scary big, hands the size of baseball mitts.

UFC has completely different business model to boxing. Live night at UFC is the best night out in all of sports. I love the sport of boxing – Froch’s fight Saturday was a fight of the year contender, boxing, MMA included – but for years I’ve loathed the business side of boxing for all the reason stated above.

But boxing did well Saturday. Froch hopefully can become a star from here. Hope Calzaghe fights him.

Likewise, Michael Bisping is a true British sporting sucsess story, I hope you guys can support him as he works his way to the UFC Middleweight Title.

I'll certainly be supporting Bisbing, and hopefully he'll get his shot - that said, I don't see him winning the title, unfortunately. Still, he's great for the sport - and will hopefully increase it's popularity over here big time....

One thing that will help the UFC in this country, is british fighters getting recognition and exposure - and also being able to compete at the highest level. If we're honest, we've only really got Bisbing that can compete at elite level - for now anyway.

Hopefully with the next season of TUF, some british fighters, and the sport, will get more coverage over here. I do hope though, that we don't get whitewashed by the USA. Will be interesting to see the standard of american fighters picked for the series.

I'm not sure how long it will take for us as a country to start conistently producing fighters capable of competing in the highest levels of mma. The sport is getting much bigger followings, and there's lots of gyms open now that offer excellent training/coaching facilities... but I think it will be a long while before we've got multiple fighters capable of challenging for titles.

Still... UFC in britain is definately moving in the right direction. Hopefully Bisbing will get his shot (and hopefully Silva will have vacated/moved up or something by then ), and hopefully we'll put in a good performance on TUF.

TUF 9 on terrestrial TV would do wonders...

[Lightsoot]

I don't think the UFC can match the kind of back-and-forth action that Boxing can (but rarely does) produce at its best, as shown by Froch vs Pascal on Saturday night which made for enthralling viewing.

UFC may contain more competitive matches on paper but purely in terms of entertainment I don't think they deliver when truly analysed. Name me some great UFC matches which swing one way and then the other? UFC is anti-climax for me. All the build-up, all the potential excitement and then either the fight becomes a messy borefest on the ground OR it's over in an instant.

At the top-level of UFC if you make a mistake the fight can end in instant. While that may make for some memorable finishes and a great highlights show reel, I don't think this makes for exciting, suspence-ridden fights. Boxing makes for better drama. A boxer can be knocked down and on the verge of being stopped but can survive, battle his way back and then turn the fight around. UFC seldom offers the same kind of drama.

[EddieShredder]

I don't think the UFC can match the kind of back-and-forth action that Boxing can (but rarely does) produce at its best, as shown by Froch vs Pascal on Saturday night which made for enthralling viewing.

UFC may contain more competitive matches on paper but purely in terms of entertainment I don't think they deliver when truly analysed. Name me some great UFC matches which swing one way and then the other? UFC is anti-climax for me. All the build-up, all the potential excitement and then either the fight becomes a messy borefest on the ground OR it's over in an instant.

At the top-level of UFC if you make a mistake the fight can end in instant. While that may make for some memorable finishes and a great highlights show reel, I don't think this makes for exciting, suspence-ridden fights. Boxing makes for better drama. A boxer can be knocked down and on the verge of being stopped but can survive, battle his way back and then turn the fight around. UFC seldom offers the same kind of drama.

Go here and watch Griffin - Bonnar, for free

http://92.ufc.com/

Tell me you don't enjoy that....