Best Fighters Who Never Held A Title

Barney Ross' Neighbor · Post by **Barney Ross' Neighbor** » 08 Jun 2003, 21:12

Who do you think were the best fighters who never won a world title? I'm thinking of guys who were denied a shot by racism/politics or just bad luck or bad timing.
My picks:
1. Charlie Burley - never got a shot at MW or LHW. Beat Archie Moore.
2. Yaqui Lopez - Robbed of dec. vs. Galindez. Put up helluva fight vs. Saad Muhammad.
3. Ruben Castillo - Had misfortune of having to challenge Arguello at 130 and Sanchez at 126 within three months.
4. Howard Davis, Jr. - Had tons of talent and Olymic gold. Choked against Watt and lost to Rosario on last rd. knockdown.

Let's hear your thoughts on this topic.

TonyJ · Post by **TonyJ** » 08 Jun 2003, 23:10

I agree, although i never seen him fight from what i heard he was the greatest to never win a title, he was so good no one wanted to give him a shot for the title.

Vetteguy99 · Post by **Vetteguy99** » 09 Jun 2003, 02:18

Off the top of my head:

Hedgeman lewis
Nino Laroca- I am sure I will take some flack on this one.
Murry Sutherland
Pete Razany- Leonard would have made alot of legitamate champions look bad that night, he was indeed a great one.
Many of the fighter already specified on other posts.
One for Tomato Can-Hal Carrol

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 09 Jun 2003, 02:32

Eddie Owens
Vonzell Johnson
Larry Buck
And indeed Hal Carrol

Bladder · Post by **Bladder** » 09 Jun 2003, 05:24

Peter Jackson
Jim Driscoll

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 09 Jun 2003, 11:40

Mauro Mina

N#1 Light heavyweight in the world in 1964-65. Detached retina forced his retirement in 1965

Dancin' Dan · Post by **Dancin' Dan** » 09 Jun 2003, 17:07

fyi - Murry Sutherland was the IBF Supper Middle champ at one point.

Recent tough guys who surprisingly didn't win a major title include:

Micky Ward
Ray Mercer

at least in my book.

Barney Ross' Neighbor · Post by **Barney Ross' Neighbor** » 09 Jun 2003, 18:15

Vetteguy - You're right that your pick of Nino LaRocca would get you flak. He had his chance against Curry. As soon as Curry hit him, he was looking for a place to lay down. LaRocca struck me as a guy who learned how to do a passable Ali imitation, but had never been tested until he felt that left hook upside his head.

The mention of Sam Langford and Peter Jackson reminds me of Harry Wills, who was actually signed to fight Dempsey but the deal fell through.
Another name comes to mind: Philadelphia JL Tyrone Everett, who was undefeated until losing a controversial decision to Alfredo Escalera. Soon after, Everett was killed. What could have been ...

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 09 Jun 2003, 19:37

Holman Williams

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 09 Jun 2003, 22:55

Broncano wrote:Mauro Mina

N#1 Light heavyweight in the world in 1964-65. Detached retina forced his retirement in 1965

Mauro Mina is a good choice that few outside of South America would think of. I will never forgive him for beating Eddie Cotton though.

Barney Ross' Neighbor · Post by **Barney Ross' Neighbor** » 09 Jun 2003, 23:15

Two more come to mind:
Harold Weston, Jr. - Look at his record. Victories over Antuofermo and Mattioli. Drew with Benitez and Lewis. He gave Cuevas all he could handle until a broken jaw TKO. Nearly upset Benitez in title rematch. He was holding his own against Hearns until thumbing ended his career.
Harold Brazier - Started as an opponent, then grew into a contender. Over a hundred bouts. Lost SD to Roger Mayweather at JW.

Also, tell me more about Mauro Mina.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 10 Jun 2003, 09:05

Barney Ross' Neighbor wrote:Two more come to mind:
Harold Weston, Jr. - Look at his record. Victories over Antuofermo and Mattioli. Drew with Benitez and Lewis. He gave Cuevas all he could handle until a broken jaw TKO. Nearly upset Benitez in title rematch. He was holding his own against Hearns until thumbing ended his career.
Harold Brazier - Started as an opponent, then grew into a contender. Over a hundred bouts. Lost SD to Roger Mayweather at JW.

Also, tell me more about Mauro Mina.

Mina has a win over Bob Foster and also was one of only two men to ever stop Gregorio Peralta (the other was George Foreman). I think Mina himself was never stopped.

The Keed · Post by **The Keed** » 10 Jun 2003, 09:08

My top picks for this list:

Lloyd Marshall
Sam Langford
Charley Burley
Holly Mims

Runners up:

Billy Graham
Gil Turner
Eduardo Lausse
Jorge Ahumada

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 11 Jun 2003, 00:50

my list ..Bivins,marshall, Burley...Charles and Tunney as light heavyweights and some others appear on an older thread.

I'd say that fighters who got a shot and didn't make it...Howard Davis, for example, don't really belong, because they did have their chance.

I have to agree though, with terap on Lew Tendler, as an example of bad timing. When he was a lightweight Benny Leonard was champion was considered far superior to anyone in that class(some still call him the best of all time) plus, in their No Decision fight many think he won, and I think it would be hard to even look good against a boxing master who just had to keep from getting kayoed to keep his title.

Re:Hal Caroll. this is the first reference I've seen to him so he must have been mentioned before I came onto the forum. I saw him fight Billy Wagner when I was in Cleveland.

Wagner was the hometown fighter and being built up for a title match. the group I saw the fight with were in agreement that just possibly Wagner had made one round even and with a stretch to say he won it and it was nice that he wasn't totally shut out. When the announcement came that Wagner won, the first reaction from the crowd was silence...and then...laughter!! it was so ridiculous we had to laugh before we booed!! It goes down as the worst decision I've ever seen and that's saying a lot. there weren't' even any rounds except one that were so close they could be called either way. As we dispersed in the lobby it was obvious everyone agreed, and Wagner was well liked, so any bias from the local folks would have been in his favor.

Both newspapers agreed. the headline of the morning sports page was ONE MAN MUGGED, ANOTHER ROBBED IN DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND.

A follow up...Wagner's wife later said Billy never got back into boxing with enthusiasm because of the rotten way he was treated by the fans and the papers after that fight, indicating love is as blind as the judges.

The fight itself....a good action one, Caroll looked terrific, and we all gave Wagner credit for at least going the distance.....until we heard the decision.

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 11 Jun 2003, 13:13

The Cuban Hawk wrote:
Barney Ross' Neighbor wrote:
Also, tell me more about Mauro Mina.
Mina has a win over Bob Foster and also was one of only two men to ever stop Gregorio Peralta (the other was George Foreman). I think Mina himself was never stopped.

Mauro Mina was born in 1933 on what had been a slave plantation 100 miles south of Lima, Peru. He was an orphan and worked in a slaughterhouse from age 11. Legend says that this is where he first put a pair of boxing gloves and where he had the habit of drinking full glasses of cow's blood to keep in shape.

He turned pro in 1957 and over 8 years was only defeated 3 times by decision, never suffering a knockdown in his entire career. He was called in spanish "El bombardero", which means "The bomber" just like Louis but his style was not like the great Joe. Those who saw him say that he was a stylish boxer, an artist in the ring who didn't lack a punch nor a chin.

Neither Harold Johnson nor Pastrano fought him because he was deemed too dangerous as a challenger. By this, I don't mean to say that he would've beat them. It's just the fact that he never got the shot he deserved. He beat all the contenders of his time including Bob Foster (albeit a young Foster and where he claims he was framed, I'll talk about that in another post) Eddie Cotton (twice) Goyo Peralta, Henry Hank, Von Clay, Piero del Papa, Artie Towne among others...

After he retired he opened a Gym in Lima and appeared on TV everytime a big fight was on as a commentator. He was and articulate and humble character.
When I was 14 I was living in Peru and had this delluded idea that one day I could become a boxer. So I signed up at Mina's gym and was trained by his eldest son, Marco. Those were great times and I became somewhat close with the Mina family. What little I know of boxing I learned there, and it was on that Gym where after looking at my own battered and bloody nose I realized that my natural talents lied elsewhere.
So when I told Mauro that I was coming back to the states when I was 17 he told me "Now don't go and sign up in no gym when you get there, go to school, you'll have better luck there"

I suppose he said this because I was no Sugar Ray in the ring, but I also know that he insisted that his own sons would not take up boxing as a profession and sent them to school instead. And that's how I remember him, as the type of guy who really cared.
He passed away in 1996.

Simonpure · Post by **Simonpure** » 12 Jun 2003, 12:45

During the 1940's and 50's there were so many deserving fighters who
never fought for a championship. Besides those already mentioned I
would add the names of Maxie Docusen, Del and Glen Flanagan, Lester
Felton, Ron Delaney and possibly Tommy Campbell.

Docusen went to the post 65 times before his first loss. Del Flanagan
had 52 fights before being stopped by Felton. Felton seemed to have
traded victories with most of the top welterweights of his time and Delaney
had wins over Tommy Bell, Cecil Hudson, Charlie Cotton, Holly Mims and
Johnny Saxton. Additionally, his nine fights with rugged Jimmy Welch
make up one of the longest running series in "modern" boxing history.

Glen Flanagan fought over 120 times, beating Sandy Saddler among
others, and....excepting that "interim title... never fought for a champtionship.

It would be interesting to hear other views as to why these top contenders
never had a title fight.

Barney Ross' Neighbor · Post by **Barney Ross' Neighbor** » 12 Jun 2003, 18:38

Broncano - Thanks for the info on Mina. Drinking cow's blood, eh? Man, I love stories like that. Boxers are always colorful to say the least.
Sounds like his story had a happy ending. Too rare in boxing.

Jaclem - Yeah, I think you're right about Davis and others who had title shots but blew it. There's lots of greats who never got that chance.

Tommy Gunn · Post by **Tommy Gunn** » 13 Jun 2003, 10:53

Carl Williams
Jerry Quarry
Luigi Musina- beat Primo Carnera 3 times!

and this one I will mention I really like him as a fighter, who I believed was beating the crap out of Hamed but unexperience beat: Augie ''Las Vegas Kids'' Sanchez!

Justin · Post by **Justin** » 16 Jun 2003, 01:59

Angel Manfredy! However, he will win his world title in the next year, but he makes my list until then :-)

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 04 Sep 2003, 18:04

Barney Ross' Neighbor wrote:Who do you think were the best fighters who never won a world title? I'm thinking of guys who were denied a shot by racism/politics or just bad luck or bad timing.
My picks:
1. Charlie Burley - never got a shot at MW or LHW. Beat Archie Moore.
2. Yaqui Lopez - Robbed of dec. vs. Galindez. Put up helluva fight vs. Saad Muhammad.
3. Ruben Castillo - Had misfortune of having to challenge Arguello at 130 and Sanchez at 126 within three months.
4. Howard Davis, Jr. - Had tons of talent and Olymic gold. Choked against Watt and lost to Rosario on last rd. knockdown.

Let's hear your thoughts on this topic.

It has to be Charley Burley, God rest his soul.

He would be in my top 5 p4p atl.

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 07 Sep 2003, 17:10

KID TUNERO, GEORGE BENTON, NINO VALDEZ.

dcatron · Post by **dcatron** » 10 Sep 2003, 21:44

Got to go with Vetteguy on Nino La Rocca. The first time I saw him was the Bobby Joe Young fight. It was 10 rounds of the best Ali impersonation I've ever seen. Nino was on his toes dancing, skipping, jabbing, popping in a straight right here and there. He literally never got touched. This is why critics hated him, since he wouldn't plant his feet and fight (that, and his habit of pumping his right arm in a circle to get the crowd to respond while jabbing Young's, Ranzany's and others faces silly.) His dismantling by Donald Curry thirteen fights later was due to buying into the addage that you can't take a title away from a champion without fighting for it. Nino fought toe to toe with the tougher (and in his prime at the time) Curry. Had he stuck to what got him there, he would have stunk the place out, but would have left with a belt around his waist. Thanks for remembering a great fighter!

Erratic ericjw · Post by **Erratic ericjw** » 23 Sep 2003, 18:43

Marco Antonio Barrera- does he count? None of the 3 major belts, but has "The Ring" belt.

Best Fighters Who Never Held A Title

Best Fighters Who Never Held A Title

A couple of Harolds

Re: A couple of Harolds

Re: A couple of Harolds

champs

Re: Best Fighters Who Never Held A Title