John L Sullivan QUestion

[the konformist]

Hey guys. I'm making a documentary on MMA (against my will - I'm a boxing man all the way) but I've read on Wikipedia that John SUllivan fought William Muldoon (who trained him for the Kilrain fight and was himself a wrestling champion) in one of the first ever mixed-fight-styles fights and that Muldoon won within two minutes. Can't find any confirmation of this anywere and was hoping that someone here could tell me if it's true or not or if someone had any details...?

Thanks.

[klompton]

My understanding was that their fight wasnt a promoted fight or an exhibition but that Muldoon was training Sullivan for Kilrain and couldnt get Sullivan to dedicate himself properly so the two fought and Muldoon whipped his ass prompting Sullivan to work harder.

[HomicideHenry]

From what I understand of the bout, it happened in Sullivan's home town of Boston, and right around the two minute mark, Muldoon slammed The Boston Strong Boy, and the crowd went absoloutely bat shit, and stormed the ring. The fight had to be called off. It was merely an exhibition, but it is the first match of note between a world class boxer and world class wrestler.

Bob Fitzsimmons had matches with wrestlers, getting submitted once I believe via an arm bar. There's more documentation on that occurence than there is the Sullivan-Muldoon fight. I know 'The Complete Idiots Guide to Pro Wrestling' had the match listed underneath its chapter on gimmick matches.

There's literally tons of these sort of matches, though in the more 'modern era' they are worked fights. LaMar Clark, the all-time consecutive knockout king, fought a few legit exhibitions against professional wrestlers and won every one of them under these hybrid rule conditions.

[zojo]

I do not envy you on your project.

As you can see here in the responses to your question, there are many sources that will contradict each other regarding early MMA matches. Which ones were legit, which ones were worked and which ones were exhibitions....

Even the primary sources may not be correct.

[Expug]

Zojo is right.

You can check out the Gene Lebell - Milo Savage fight on youtube I think.
Early mma /mixed fight I guess.
Savage should never have put on that gi - top though.

[ben geoghegan]

Sullivan and Muldoon met in public wrestling matches in Detroit, Cincinnati and New Jersey in 1889 while Muldoon trained him to meet Kilrain. They had strange rules but there were no punches. The won-loss tally was 1-1-1 but they were conceded to be more the style of exhibitions. 40,000 turned out in Jersey.