Does Khan really deserve a world title shot ?

[Quixall]

I don't think he does.....

He has'nt fought any real quality opponents, apart from a shot Barerra and two over the hill, blown up super-featherweights in St.Clair and Gomez. He has avoided the likes of Thaxton and Murray, has'nt won either the British or European tites and got sparked out only three fights ago, by a virtual unknown. He has avoided genuine lightweights, especially those that are known heavy hitters and is now moving up a weight division, to take on a non-puncher in Kotelnik, who is perhaps one of the weakest world champions out there. Khan has a very poor resume for a prospective world champion and has only got this shot because of the money that he generates, out of the hype that Warren has created through clever public relations and the manipulation of the media. I'm an old fashioned sort, who believes that in order to gain a world title shot, you need to have earned it, ie, by claiming the British, European and commenwealth titles, defending those belts, then fight some genuine top ten guys and then finally have an eliminator for a world title shot and then once you have won that, you get a genuine, well earn't crack at the title. Khan has the fast hands, accuracy, a good range of punches and some decent punch power, but he lacks the fundamentals, particularly in defence, has the dodgy chin and would have been exposed a lot more than in the Prescott fight, if he had'nt of been handled with cotton wool by Warren. I know that it goes off and where money is concerned, all doors fly open, regardless of talent, but i personally think it stinks, that Khan can have a world title chance on the back of a resume that is a near embaressment, with it's lack of domestic and European titles and absolute lack of quality with reagrds to his opponents, abiet St.Clair and Gomez and a shot Barerra. Khan, unless he retires early, will have to eventually fight some genuine "elite" fighter, either at lightweight or light-welterweight and when he does, he will be shown up for the virtual fraud that he is, because his supposed talent and quality are based on fighting virtual nobodies, plenty of hype, media manipulation and boxing politics, that allows a boxer to jump domestic and European titles, avoid recognised fighters in his own division, wipe off a recent defeat, as if it never happened and end up gaining a very undeserved title shot........Boxing at it's absolute worst !!!

[observer1]

Other British Boxers have got title shots when they don't deserve it, i don't see why it is any different when Khan gets one.
'

[Hagler2002]

Did any of the following? Gavin Rees, Alex Arthur, Nicky Cook, Gary Lockett, Enzo Maccarinelli, Kevin Mitchell, going back a bit further, John Davidson, Billy Hardy......feel free to add more.

Just more Khan bashing due to his high profile status.

[Carbo]

Let's look at this in relative terms. With four (of three, depending on the way you look at it) titles, plus interim belts and super champions, and 18 weight divisions, there are a great many title fights to go around. This clearly reduces the achievement required to justify a shot.

I'm reminded of a time Jake La Motta was asked after an impressive Dela Hoya performance (before, I think, he lost to Trinidad) where he thought Dela Hoya would have ranked in his day. "About seventh of eighth," La Motta replied. "Who would have been above him, pound for pound?" the interviewer asked. "No, you godit wrong," La Motta said. "Seventh of eighth -- in the welterweights."

Sums it up nicely.

More champs, approaching three times the weight divisions dilutes what is already a reduced talent base, depriving us of fights in which the best fight the best, and reshaping the top of the sport from a defined peak to an amorphous quagmire of mediocrity, populated increasingly less obviously by the adept.

Short answer: In a modern context, yes.

[banjo]

No he doesn't deserve it but plenty of fighters have challenged for titles without deserving it.

I don't think Khan is good enough to beat Kotelnik but if he does I'll give him props for it especially if he does it impressively because nobody else has done it, I thought Witter was very lucky to get the decision against him and M'Baye was just plain robbed. Don't see Khan staying al Light Welter if he does win though, especially if they make Vicious Victor his mandatory, he'll run as if he's the plague.

[Carbo]

I suspect, through boxing history, the arc from Lightweight to Welterweight has been traditionally the strongest.

And, with the exception of 122, it is now, too.

I don't see Khan making it to 154, so where can he go? Lightweight is literally overflowing hungry talent, and 147, for the time being, has some real killers. Big men, as well. Imagine Khan with someone like Clottey? Or Berto? Me neither. So, 140 is perhaps the landing space between the two, but with Hatton, Paquiao, Bradley, Holt, Campbell, Witter and potentially Marquez and Valero, I don't see where Khan has to go.

That's why I'm slightly surprised Warren has elevated him to the shot now.

I wonder whether the fat contrct he signed with Khan has tied his hands: He needs to get PPV to make it profitable; he needs big fights to make the PPV work.

Perhpaps he's just decided to throw him in, where normally he would wait. Because the contract is coming to an end.

Certainly, in terms of size and strangth alone, Kotelnik is going to be a culture shock for Khan after his recent fights.

[BABY BLUE]

No he doesn't deserve it but plenty of fighters have challenged for titles without deserving it.

I don't think Khan is good enough to beat Kotelnik but if he does I'll give him props for it especially if he does it impressively because nobody else has done it, I thought Witter was very lucky to get the decision against him and M'Baye was just plain robbed. Don't see Khan staying al Light Welter if he does win though, especially if they make Vicious Victor his mandatory, he'll run as if he's the plague.

aslo warren said on the bunces boxing hour that kahn will drop down to LW once he wins .this .he lso stated that calzghe did the same went up a weight.i cant see khan going up a weight though. other wise he will have to fight the likes of bradley ,witters.etc... he cant dodge them .i cant see warren alowing that. i rekon if JMM vacates, then im sure warren will jump in there to get kahn another title fight.

[dondada]

In any decent world - no. Especially not at 140.

In this garbage-filled world of early 21c boxing - yes.

[bigjack]

No he doesn't,but i could name shed loads of past fighters that got a title shot when they shouldn't have,namely frank bruno.It is wrong because we get robbed of all the great domestic showdowns that we had in the past,but boxing is not a sport anymore it's big business.It does seem to me that khan or his team have avoided anyone with half a punch and he won't be a world champion in my eyes even if he beat kotelnic

[DG.]

No and in typical Fwank Fashion he will have to protect Khan in either the lightweight or LWW division!

I hope he wins and defends against.....WITTER!


#

[BABY BLUE]

No and in typical Fwank Fashion he will have to protect Khan in either the lightweight or LWW division!

I hope he wins and defends against.....WITTER!


#

hahaha. then we can see him get sparked again like he did against prescott.

[banjo]

No he doesn't,but i could name shed loads of past fighters that got a title shot when they shouldn't have

Very true, Floyd Mayweather Jr didn't exactly deserve a shot at the WBC title back in 1998 either but it's down to politics, it always has been, politics and promotion. It isn't a new thing either, it's been happening for donkeys years, just the same as there's been more than one "world" title since before the WBC/WBA/IBF etc. debacle. Some argued that Ali didn't deserve his shot at Sonny Liston, Spinks didn't earn his shot at Ali either. It's down to having the right connections and enough money.

[DG.]

No and in typical Fwank Fashion he will have to protect Khan in either the lightweight or LWW division!

I hope he wins and defends against.....WITTER!


#

hahaha. then we can see him get sparked again like he did against prescott.

[DaveyH]

I don't think he deserves the shot but as has been pointed out, he's not the first and he won't be the last undeserving challenger. But to those who are quick to point out this is just "Khan bashing" because of his status, then thats an unfortunate flip side of the coin when you're thrust into the limelight like Khan has been. Not many fighters get the exposure he's had, not many 22 year old prospects (lets be fair thats all he is at the moment he hasn't beat anyone to establish himself beyond prospect status) demand PPV exclusivity and rake in millions while working their way up through a list of carefully selected opponents. Love him or hate him, Khan generates this hype because of how he has been managed and he's reaped all the benefits of this exposure. So naturally he's going to get the flip side that comes with this when things look a bit dodgy. Sure Gavin Rees didn't deserve a title shot and I'm sure within the 50 people that knew half of them probably objected. But when he was "World Champion" he was still unknown to most people so thats why his "undeserved" win slipped off the radar.

[observer1]

Did any of the following? Gavin Rees, Alex Arthur, Nicky Cook, Gary Lockett, Enzo Maccarinelli, Kevin Mitchell, going back a bit further, John Davidson, Billy Hardy......feel free to add more.

Just more Khan bashing due to his high profile status.

Agreed.

That said, i reckon Kotelnik will probably take this

[dondada]

Did any of the following? Gavin Rees, Alex Arthur, Nicky Cook, Gary Lockett, Enzo Maccarinelli, Kevin Mitchell, going back a bit further, John Davidson, Billy Hardy......feel free to add more.

Just more Khan bashing due to his high profile status.

Which promotional stable are all of those in your first list from? Must be doing a good job, eh?

[Quixall]

I suspect, through boxing history, the arc from Lightweight to Welterweight has been traditionally the strongest.

And, with the exception of 122, it is now, too.

I don't see Khan making it to 154, so where can he go? Lightweight is literally overflowing hungry talent, and 147, for the time being, has some real killers. Big men, as well. Imagine Khan with someone like Clottey? Or Berto? Me neither. So, 140 is perhaps the landing space between the two, but with Hatton, Paquiao, Bradley, Holt, Campbell, Witter and potentially Marquez and Valero, I don't see where Khan has to go.

That's why I'm slightly surprised Warren has elevated him to the shot now.

I wonder whether the fat contrct he signed with Khan has tied his hands: He needs to get PPV to make it profitable; he needs big fights to make the PPV work.

Perhpaps he's just decided to throw him in, where normally he would wait. Because the contract is coming to an end.

Certainly, in terms of size and strangth alone, Kotelnik is going to be a culture shock for Khan after his recent fights.

That was my point, in that eventually Khan will have to fight "genuine" belt holders and i can honestly see him losing his fisrt "elite" fight, coming back after a few warm up fights, losing again and then retiring from the sport. I can't see Khan being in the sport for more than another two or three years, because he won't be able to compete with the elite fighters at 133 or 140lbs and won't want to take a step down in class. He will have made his money and Warren will get his return, which is what all this rush to a world title shot is all about, because Warren knows its only a matter of time before defeats come and Khan as a significant financial asset will be over.

[Quixall]

In any decent world - no. Especially not at 140.

In this garbage-filled world of early 21c boxing - yes.

I agree, that seems to be the distinction and people can quantify their arguments and reasoning by saying that others have got world title shots on similar poor records, but that does'nt justify Khan getting a world title shot. I think it also has something to do with a section of the media, claiming that Khan can be a "p4p" fighter, something that Khan has said himself, when he said that he could beat Paacquaio, shortly before Manny fought De La Hoya. Stuff like that is galling to listen to and on the basis of his record, he has no right to make such claims. If he truely thinks he is that good, then set up a fight with Pacquaio, Marquez, Guzman, Valero, Hatton etc etc and see if he can back his mouth up

[Quixall]

No he doesn't,but i could name shed loads of past fighters that got a title shot when they shouldn't have,namely frank bruno.It is wrong because we get robbed of all the great domestic showdowns that we had in the past,but boxing is not a sport anymore it's big business.It does seem to me that khan or his team have avoided anyone with half a punch and he won't be a world champion in my eyes even if he beat kotelnic

That's how i see it

[Quixall]

No and in typical Fwank Fashion he will have to protect Khan in either the lightweight or LWW division!

I hope he wins and defends against.....WITTER!


#

hahaha. then we can see him get sparked again like he did against prescott.

and that will definately happen if he mixes it with the elite fighters at 133 and 140lbs.....

[Quixall]

No he doesn't,but i could name shed loads of past fighters that got a title shot when they shouldn't have

Very true, Floyd Mayweather Jr didn't exactly deserve a shot at the WBC title back in 1998 either but it's down to politics, it always has been, politics and promotion. It isn't a new thing either, it's been happening for donkeys years, just the same as there's been more than one "world" title since before the WBC/WBA/IBF etc. debacle. Some argued that Ali didn't deserve his shot at Sonny Liston, Spinks didn't earn his shot at Ali either. It's down to having the right connections and enough money.

Spimks vs Ali.......Way bad

[Quixall]

I don't think he deserves the shot but as has been pointed out, he's not the first and he won't be the last undeserving challenger. But to those who are quick to point out this is just "Khan bashing" because of his status, then thats an unfortunate flip side of the coin when you're thrust into the limelight like Khan has been. Not many fighters get the exposure he's had, not many 22 year old prospects (lets be fair thats all he is at the moment he hasn't beat anyone to establish himself beyond prospect status) demand PPV exclusivity and rake in millions while working their way up through a list of carefully selected opponents. Love him or hate him, Khan generates this hype because of how he has been managed and he's reaped all the benefits of this exposure. So naturally he's going to get the flip side that comes with this when things look a bit dodgy. Sure Gavin Rees didn't deserve a title shot and I'm sure within the 50 people that knew half of them probably objected. But when he was "World Champion" he was still unknown to most people so thats why his "undeserved" win slipped off the radar.

Good post Davey

Totally agree, it's the hype and rhetoric that surrounds Khan that makes people more critical. I just look at a fighter and judge him on how i see it and i don't fall into the trap of whether i like a particular fighter or not, i just say it as i see it. I like Carl Froch and want him to beat Taylor, but i have said that i think Taylor has more quality, will expose Froch's weaknesses and will win. I also liked Joe Calzaghe and wanted him to beat Hopkins, but i scored that fight in favour of Hopkins by a round, so i like to think that i can be objective when making a critique of a fighters abilities. I like Khan as a person, he's a great lad and i think that he has some very good aspects to his style, most notably, his offensve qualities. He has good hand speed, a full range of punches, he has good accuracy, a decent punch and has the heart of a lion, but with that comes a lot of fundamental flaws, particualarly in defence, that will be exposed, once he gets to fight an elite fighter at 133 or 140lbs that is in his prime. That is why he is being protected, to such a degree, that he has avoided British fighters like Murra and Thaxton, Euro fighters like Romanov and is having his first world title shot out of his natural division, to avoid the elite fighters who can punch.....

[Quixall]

Modern boxing it seems has never been really about who deserves a shot its about what you negociate and hats off to allegedly allegedly for getting him his shot. Kevin Mitchell is no more deserving of a title shot in July but Frank looks like he's done it again and Mitchell hasnt fought for over a year. Now compare these two Warren fighters to two Hennessy fighters: Witter and Murray who's careers at the moment seem to be constantly on hold and i tell you one thing Warren wont be having the same problems Hennessy is with TV coverage for Froch with his fighters (refering to the mitchell not Khan who will be PPV). Khan may or may not be deserving his shot but you can add him to a long line of other fighters from the UK who have had the same and isnt it ironic that he will be fighting the man that beat Gavin Rees who was even less deserving of a shot than Khan. People need to lay off Khan and get behind him because he's fighting for a world title and the last time i looked we were short on world champions.

It's true that other fighters in the past have also gained undeserved world title shots and as someoen has pointed out, its all about promotional abilities, marketing and finance that make that happen, aswell as the fact that having more world championship belts devalues the whole system. But that does'nt mean that Khan is deserving of a world title shot, because the likes of Rees, Hardy etc etc have trodden tha same path before him. I single out Khan, because of the media attention that he gets, that is based upon the false claim, that he can be a "legend" or "one of the greats" or a "p4p" title holder in the near future, something that Khan has himself said on many occasions. So all i do is look at his rhetoric, his claims of impending greatness and look at the facts, the reality and ask myself " Is this self proclaimed greatness, by Khan something that has some truth to it......". So, i look at his record, the fighters he has fought, look past the hype and the media headlines and see a fighter that on his record alone, is still at the domestic level and no-where near a world title shot. For Khan to justify his comments and the coments of Freddie Roach, who says "Khan has the potential to be one of the greats....", then he has to fight for a british and European title, fight some genuine top ten lightweights, get an eliminator against one of the elite fighters in the divsion and then go for a world title shot, against someone of recognised elite staus, like Paquaio, Marquez etc etc......If he does that and wins, i'll be convinced.

[BABY BLUE]

No and in typical Fwank Fashion he will have to protect Khan in either the lightweight or LWW division!

I hope he wins and defends against.....WITTER!


#

hahaha. then we can see him get sparked again like he did against prescott.

i would laugh my socks off when this fight does go ahead. khan cant run foever agaisnt descent oppants. he will have to fight witters, bradley etc... he cant dodge them other wise i can see witters fuming about this.
fwanky boy wont let his top boy take a good beating from a decent L welter. so the best option would be to drop back to LW.

[liamlion]

Did any of the following? Gavin Rees, Alex Arthur, Nicky Cook, Gary Lockett, Enzo Maccarinelli, Kevin Mitchell, going back a bit further, John Davidson, Billy Hardy......feel free to add more.

Just more Khan bashing due to his high profile status.

I dont agree. Stating the very obvious that Khan has done little to deserve a world title shot is not in anyway "Khan bashing" - but instead is pretty much a statement of fact. Its simply immaterial to mention other fighters who may or may not have been given underserving world title opportunities. The likes of Rees, Arthur, Lockett, Jennings (etcetera) in no way justify Khan being given a world title shot.