Prime Joe Frazier vs Prime Mike Tyson

[TigerMoth]

[quote="Ezzard"]The Tyson myth is the bugbear of all internet boxing forums.

How many times in boxing history have we seen a big puncher look unbeatable only to lose to someone with a defence who stood their ground? Why is the example of Tyson any different?[/quote]

[b]This is such BS[/b]. In early 1988 Tyson married Robin Givens ending up on some type of tranquilizer (did you see the famous interview on TV with Mike "drugged". In late 1988, Tyson fired longtime trainer Kevin Rooney, the man many credit for honing Tyson's craft after the death of D'Amato.[12] Without Rooney, Tyson's skills quickly deteriorated and he became more prone to looking for the one-punch knockout, rather than using the combinations that brought him to stardom.[23] He also began to head-hunt, neglecting to attack the opponent's body first.[24] In addition, he lost his defensive skills and began to barrel straight in toward the opponent, neglecting to jab and slip his way in.[25] In 1989, Tyson had only two fights amid personal turmoil. He faced the popular British boxer Frank Bruno in February in a fight where Bruno managed to stun Tyson at the end of the 1st round,[26] although Tyson went on to knock out Bruno in the fifth round. Tyson then knocked out Carl "The Truth" Williams in one round in July

By 1990, Tyson seemed to have lost direction, and his personal life and training habits were in disarray. In a fight on February 11, 1990, he lost the undisputed championship to James "Buster" Douglas in Tokyo.[28]

AT AGE 22 AND A FEW MONTHS, IRON MIKE TYSON's CAREER WAS OVER. BUSTER DOUGLAS DID NOT BEAT IRON MIKE TYSON, HE BEAT THE REMAINS OF IRON MIKE, WHICH HAVE GONE DOWN HILL EVER SINCE.

[Ezzard]

Berbick was gassed in his hotel room.

Pinklon Thomas had drug problems.

Mike Spinks was a light-heavyweight with busted knees.

Larry Holmes was ancient.

Ruddock had asthma.

Tubbs was overweight.

Tucker had hand problems.

I also have it from a reliable source that at least 2 other Tyson's opponents sneezed at least twice in the 72 hours running up to their fights with Mike.

Tyson didn't beat any of these guys he just beat them remains of them.

[Goodnight, Irene]

The Tyson myth is the bugbear of all internet boxing forums.

How many times in boxing history have we seen a big puncher look unbeatable only to lose to someone with a defence who stood their ground? Why is the example of Tyson any different?

This is such BS. In early 1988 Tyson married Robin Givens ending up on some type of tranquilizer (did you see the famous interview on TV with Mike "drugged". In late 1988, Tyson fired longtime trainer Kevin Rooney, the man many credit for honing Tyson's craft after the death of D'Amato.[12] Without Rooney, Tyson's skills quickly deteriorated and he became more prone to looking for the one-punch knockout, rather than using the combinations that brought him to stardom.[23] He also began to head-hunt, neglecting to attack the opponent's body first.[24] In addition, he lost his defensive skills and began to barrel straight in toward the opponent, neglecting to jab and slip his way in.[25] In 1989, Tyson had only two fights amid personal turmoil. He faced the popular British boxer Frank Bruno in February in a fight where Bruno managed to stun Tyson at the end of the 1st round,[26] although Tyson went on to knock out Bruno in the fifth round. Tyson then knocked out Carl "The Truth" Williams in one round in July

By 1990, Tyson seemed to have lost direction, and his personal life and training habits were in disarray. In a fight on February 11, 1990, he lost the undisputed championship to James "Buster" Douglas in Tokyo.[28]

AT AGE 22 AND A FEW MONTHS, IRON MIKE TYSON's CAREER WAS OVER. BUSTER DOUGLAS DID NOT BEAT IRON MIKE TYSON, HE BEAT THE REMAINS OF IRON MIKE, WHICH HAVE GONE DOWN HILL EVER SINCE.

Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written preceding the loss to Douglas.

Hindsight is twenty-twenty. Revisionist history makes a powerful allie for it.

[TigerMoth]

[quote="Goodnight, Irene"][quote="TigerMoth"][quote="Ezzard"]The Tyson myth is the bugbear of all internet boxing forums.

How many times in boxing history have we seen a big puncher look unbeatable only to lose to someone with a defence who stood their ground? Why is the example of Tyson any different?[/quote]

[b]This is such BS[/b]. In early 1988 Tyson married Robin Givens ending up on some type of tranquilizer (did you see the famous interview on TV with Mike "drugged". In late 1988, Tyson fired longtime trainer Kevin Rooney, the man many credit for honing Tyson's craft after the death of D'Amato.[12] Without Rooney, Tyson's skills quickly deteriorated and he became more prone to looking for the one-punch knockout, rather than using the combinations that brought him to stardom.[23] He also began to head-hunt, neglecting to attack the opponent's body first.[24] In addition, he lost his defensive skills and began to barrel straight in toward the opponent, neglecting to jab and slip his way in.[25] In 1989, Tyson had only two fights amid personal turmoil. He faced the popular British boxer Frank Bruno in February in a fight where Bruno managed to stun Tyson at the end of the 1st round,[26] although Tyson went on to knock out Bruno in the fifth round. Tyson then knocked out Carl "The Truth" Williams in one round in July

By 1990, Tyson seemed to have lost direction, and his personal life and training habits were in disarray. In a fight on February 11, 1990, he lost the undisputed championship to James "Buster" Douglas in Tokyo.[28]

AT AGE 22 AND A FEW MONTHS, IRON MIKE TYSON's CAREER WAS OVER. BUSTER DOUGLAS DID NOT BEAT IRON MIKE TYSON, HE BEAT THE REMAINS OF IRON MIKE, WHICH HAVE GONE DOWN HILL EVER SINCE.[/quote]

Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written [i]preceding[/i] the loss to Douglas.

Hindsight is twenty-twenty. Revisionist history makes a powerful allie for it.[/quote]
What you refer to as revisionist history is accurate history. Identify one item in the above which is not accurate history....

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written preceding the loss to Douglas."

First, you answer my question. Then, we tackle yours 8)

[dempseyfire]

The Tyson myth is the bugbear of all internet boxing forums.

How many times in boxing history have we seen a big puncher look unbeatable only to lose to someone with a defence who stood their ground? Why is the example of Tyson any different?

This is such BS. In early 1988 Tyson married Robin Givens ending up on some type of tranquilizer (did you see the famous interview on TV with Mike "drugged". In late 1988, Tyson fired longtime trainer Kevin Rooney, the man many credit for honing Tyson's craft after the death of D'Amato.[12] Without Rooney, Tyson's skills quickly deteriorated and he became more prone to looking for the one-punch knockout, rather than using the combinations that brought him to stardom.[23] He also began to head-hunt, neglecting to attack the opponent's body first.[24] In addition, he lost his defensive skills and began to barrel straight in toward the opponent, neglecting to jab and slip his way in.[25] In 1989, Tyson had only two fights amid personal turmoil. He faced the popular British boxer Frank Bruno in February in a fight where Bruno managed to stun Tyson at the end of the 1st round,[26] although Tyson went on to knock out Bruno in the fifth round. Tyson then knocked out Carl "The Truth" Williams in one round in July

By 1990, Tyson seemed to have lost direction, and his personal life and training habits were in disarray. In a fight on February 11, 1990, he lost the undisputed championship to James "Buster" Douglas in Tokyo.[28]

AT AGE 22 AND A FEW MONTHS, IRON MIKE TYSON's CAREER WAS OVER. BUSTER DOUGLAS DID NOT BEAT IRON MIKE TYSON, HE BEAT THE REMAINS OF IRON MIKE, WHICH HAVE GONE DOWN HILL EVER SINCE.

Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written preceding the loss to Douglas.

Hindsight is twenty-twenty. Revisionist history makes a powerful allie for it.

What you refer to as revisionist history is accurate history. Identify one item in the above which is not accurate history....[/quote]

Now tell me how Tyson was the only champion to ever have women problems . . .

Or change trainers mid-career . . .

Or had some issues with partying/taking opponents lightly?? . . .

For other fighters it's small potatoes. For Tyson, they are indestuctable forces which in two years bring him from a prime fighter to a remnant of what he once was . .

[TigerMoth]

[quote="dempseyfire"][quote="TigerMoth"][quote="Goodnight, Irene"][quote="TigerMoth"]The Tyson myth is the bugbear of all internet boxing forums.

How many times in boxing history have we seen a big puncher look unbeatable only to lose to someone with a defence who stood their ground? Why is the example of Tyson any different?[/quote]

[b]This is such BS[/b]. In early 1988 Tyson married Robin Givens ending up on some type of tranquilizer (did you see the famous interview on TV with Mike "drugged". In late 1988, Tyson fired longtime trainer Kevin Rooney, the man many credit for honing Tyson's craft after the death of D'Amato.[12] Without Rooney, Tyson's skills quickly deteriorated and he became more prone to looking for the one-punch knockout, rather than using the combinations that brought him to stardom.[23] He also began to head-hunt, neglecting to attack the opponent's body first.[24] In addition, he lost his defensive skills and began to barrel straight in toward the opponent, neglecting to jab and slip his way in.[25] In 1989, Tyson had only two fights amid personal turmoil. He faced the popular British boxer Frank Bruno in February in a fight where Bruno managed to stun Tyson at the end of the 1st round,[26] although Tyson went on to knock out Bruno in the fifth round. Tyson then knocked out Carl "The Truth" Williams in one round in July

By 1990, Tyson seemed to have lost direction, and his personal life and training habits were in disarray. In a fight on February 11, 1990, he lost the undisputed championship to James "Buster" Douglas in Tokyo.[28]

AT AGE 22 AND A FEW MONTHS, IRON MIKE TYSON's CAREER WAS OVER. BUSTER DOUGLAS DID NOT BEAT IRON MIKE TYSON, HE BEAT THE REMAINS OF IRON MIKE, WHICH HAVE GONE DOWN HILL EVER SINCE.[/quote]

Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written [i]preceding[/i] the loss to Douglas.

Hindsight is twenty-twenty. Revisionist history makes a powerful allie for it.[/quote]
What you refer to as revisionist history is accurate history. Identify one item in the above which is not accurate history....[/quote]

Now tell me how Tyson was the only champion to ever have women problems . . .

Or change trainers mid-career . . .

Or had some issues with partying/taking opponents lightly?? . . .

For other fighters it's small potatoes. For Tyson, they are indestuctable forces which in two years bring him from a prime fighter to a remnant of what he once was . . [/quote]

I hope you realize you said not one word to substantiate your claim of revisionist history.

So, if you would like to discuss this, I am willing. But, I won't reply to meaningless comments followed by lol!

And, I stand by my earlier statements!

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written preceding the loss to Douglas."

First, you answer my question. Then, we tackle yours 8)

Still waiting...

[TigerMoth]

[quote="Goodnight, Irene"][quote="Goodnight, Irene"][b]"Now show us how many reports you can produce stating Tyson's career, "was over" at age twenty-two & a few months which were written [i]preceding[/i] the loss to Douglas."[/b]

First, you answer my question. Then, we tackle yours 8)[/quote]

Still waiting...[/quote]

[b]Sorry, your statement of revisionist history was in a post preceding your request for a "report".

So, are you conceding your statement was inaccurate?

I have no idea what you mean by "report" but, I do know I watched the Tyson:Douglas fight and the Tyson that fought that night was not the same Tyson as the pre-1988 Tyson.

Now, you can say Tyson had a weak psyche and should have been able to deal with the death of D'Amato, with whom he had lived since he was 13, the death of Jacobs another mentor, his marriage to Givens and handling by incompetents supplied by Don King, but, you can not say he was the same fighter he was before 1988.

As I said, I am not a fan of the man Tyson became or the man he is now, but, that doesn't change the fact that he was a much superior fighter before 1988.

The truth is in video record - look at a video of Tyson pre-1988 and post-1988.

And, I am not going to reply to your childish sarcasm.[/b]

End of discussion!

[Goodnight, Irene]

End of discussion? Indeed

The less time you devote to excuse-mongering for Tyson, & more time you spend learning the quote system, the better.

[Jaywheel]

End of discussion? Indeed

The less time you devote to excuse-mongering for Tyson, & more time you spend learning the quote system, the better.

it would be an asset :P