Is there another sport....

[jamesmcdonnell]

Back to the point Terry made about them accidentally getting it right now and then, wasn't i embarrassed when i told everyone who would listen that Graham Earl wasn't gonna be like the rest of Khan's opponents and had a real chance against him, i even persuaded one or two to get a few quid on him as the price was massive.

Similarly when he fought Prescott, they were all raving about this huge puncher from Brazil who was Khan's biggest test yet, just like the SN press releases tried to kid them, yet there i was again telling them it was a joke fight and they'd all been conned, trying to explain how Prescott hadn't beaten anyone.

I think i'll be keeping quiet for the next couple of weeks just in case Paulie doesn't pick Hatton off all night and the twice a year fans start telling me i don't know what i'm talking about again.

Just scream "I use science to make my picks!", then flounce out of the room.

It is hard to explain. I think if you know a fair bit about something you can see numerous scenarios, and you get caught between them all. Then there is the question of how things should work out. For example Jermain Taylor should have defeated Kelly Pavlik, twice. Meaning that the fight that really took place was unreal, or a mistake, you then try explaining that to people and they think you are making excuses.

In the real world Taylor should have defeated Pavlik, in this nonsensical reality he did not, meaning I came second to some guys from Ohio who predicted the fight correctly, purely by accident, and after consulting their local 'wise pig'.

It is a pain in the hole. My girlfriend correctly predicted Tszyu-Hatton, the disappointment of Audley Harrison and other fights, sometimes by just saying "He looks a proper tough bastard! I am going for him by KO."

Yep, sometimes gut instinct is more accurate than the countless scenarious you play out in your head. I thought Hatton just had the style to pressure Mayweather, I thought Tszyu would crush Hatton, I thought Cotto was just too skilled for Margarito, I thought ............too much.

The worst for me though were Hatton and Calzaghe. I remember saying to Claude Abrams at ringside one night, that Hatton would take Tszyu apart if they met, Claude grinned and rightly so, I'd only seen Tszyu fight a couple of times by that point (the Pendleton fight).

By the time the fight came around, and I'd seen Tszyu come out of semi retirement and Annihilate Mitchell, I thought Hatton was in for a really rough, painful, and losing night.

Similarly, after laughing about Lacy's chances against Calzaghe, and making a point of telling all my 'less knowledgable' mates how Lacy was in for a kicking, I then saw Lacy decapitate Robin Reid and changed my mind at the death......cue a large bottle of brown sauce, a bib, a knife and fork, and a ffffeck off huge pie to be eaten.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Where the british public as a whole are so ill-informed, yet seem to think they have a great knowledge of, as boxing?

It's one of those sports, where everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks they know who'd knock who out etc.... yet, almost their entire knowledge is fed to them by biased media and tv companies, ultimately selling a product.

An example in todays metro... a poll asking who britains best ever boxer is. I doubt the results will be surprising, but just highlight how big an influence the media is in building a star, and just how the public lap it up.

1) Calzaghe (49%, from memory)
2) Lewis (app 25%)
3) Hatton

My argument isn't that Calzaghe, and Lewis, don't deserve to be up there - although not at the very top.... but that if this question is asked in a years time, people would likely be saying David Haye, and Carl Froch.

Either way, if the public reads an article about football, rugby, cricket etc they'll generally form their own opinion and agree or disagree.... whereas with boxing, they just lap up whatever they read - and regurgitate it down the pub as though they'd sat thinking about it all night over hours of footage.

I guess it's because boxing is one of those sports "men" think they have to know about, or it's cool to know etc...

(Incidentally, in an interview with Haye this morning, it quoted his stats as weighing 215. We'll see how accurate that was at the weigh in, but i'd be surprised if he's anywhere near that light)

Good post.

This syndrome of 'experts' is occuring in every area - politics, football, health, cooking, pyschology - but is particulalry prevelant in boxing.

I am sick and tired of listening to people in pubs who know f### all, but sit there lording it like they are the ultimate authority. They have no in-depth knowledge and, as many of you have said, spit out the same old shit.

However - ironically - I do see it happening on here a bit, (but nowhere near as much).

People come out with some ridicolous blanket statements, but I do believe sometimes there is a bit of a lack of knowledge about what really goes on behind the scenes.

But thats almost all i see on this forum


Very opinionated people who know very little about the sport, yet will bang on at great length on any thread, whatever the topic. There are guys here with 1000's of post, who feel duty bound to comment on every thread, who seem amazed at the fact that fighters often dehydrate to make weight....

Whats worse is that these very same people have "no interest" in any fight that has ever been made in the last 5 years


bizarre

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

My "missus" is not a sharp analyst, her most interesting comment during the Calzaghe - Hopkins fight was that she had seen Calzaghe in Nana Plaza a few times, but "him no good man, small money"


For those of you interested Calzaghe is well know in Casanova bar, 2nd floor..

So i'm told

[jamesmcdonnell]

Where the british public as a whole are so ill-informed, yet seem to think they have a great knowledge of, as boxing?

It's one of those sports, where everyone has an opinion, everyone thinks they know who'd knock who out etc.... yet, almost their entire knowledge is fed to them by biased media and tv companies, ultimately selling a product.

An example in todays metro... a poll asking who britains best ever boxer is. I doubt the results will be surprising, but just highlight how big an influence the media is in building a star, and just how the public lap it up.

1) Calzaghe (49%, from memory)
2) Lewis (app 25%)
3) Hatton

My argument isn't that Calzaghe, and Lewis, don't deserve to be up there - although not at the very top.... but that if this question is asked in a years time, people would likely be saying David Haye, and Carl Froch.

Either way, if the public reads an article about football, rugby, cricket etc they'll generally form their own opinion and agree or disagree.... whereas with boxing, they just lap up whatever they read - and regurgitate it down the pub as though they'd sat thinking about it all night over hours of footage.

I guess it's because boxing is one of those sports "men" think they have to know about, or it's cool to know etc...

(Incidentally, in an interview with Haye this morning, it quoted his stats as weighing 215. We'll see how accurate that was at the weigh in, but i'd be surprised if he's anywhere near that light)

Good post.

This syndrome of 'experts' is occuring in every area - politics, football, health, cooking, pyschology - but is particulalry prevelant in boxing.

I am sick and tired of listening to people in pubs who know f### all, but sit there lording it like they are the ultimate authority. They have no in-depth knowledge and, as many of you have said, spit out the same old shit.

However - ironically - I do see it happening on here a bit, (but nowhere near as much).

People come out with some ridicolous blanket statements, but I do believe sometimes there is a bit of a lack of knowledge about what really goes on behind the scenes.

But thats almost all i see on this forum


Very opinionated people who know very little about the sport, yet will bang on at great length on any thread, whatever the topic. There are guys here with 1000's of post, who feel duty bound to comment on every thread, who seem amazed at the fact that fighters often dehydrate to make weight....

Whats worse is that these very same people have "no interest" in any fight that has ever been made in the last 5 years


bizarre

That is baldly not true, what utter rot, to say people on here no nothing and are not interested is complete hogwash.

[Gray-Fox]

Why should boxing be any different, the general masses are thick as hogshite - they believe what they are told no matter what field it is - politics, history - sport.

With football, it's a lot easier to deduce the truth, the team which keeps coming out on top of the league is going to be the best team - it is unassailable.

However, boxing is so subjective, and if people keep ramming down their throats that Calzaghe is the best ever and a living legend etc, and all they have seen is people jerking off on TV over his performances against Hopkins and Jones, plus all the stiffs he fought like Manfredo, who was hyped up to be a dangerous and credible opponent - why wouldn't they believe he's the greatest ever.

Have they ever heard of Jimmy Wilde or Kid Berg? Of course they bloody haven't, do you think a 16 year old Arsenal Fan knows who Stanley Matthews were, or Garincha? Course they bleedin' dont.

Polls like this are to be ignored, just like P4P lists and all time Great lists, all are subjective and influenced by the latest figures in the sport, because that is what most people remember.

If you were to talk about greatest 140 lbers out there, how many people reckon Aaron Pryor would get a mention if you put that poll on a non-fans website. Of course not. They wouldn't know who the bloody hell he was.

Go and look at the Internet Movie Database, and look how many of the top 250 movies of all time are modern films, many of them don't deserve a place in there at all - it's quite clear that many are there because people vote for the films they are familiar with.

Brilliant post, but I disagree about films. Films are one of those timeless fields where the fans DO watch the really old classics. The IMDB top 250 are not a bad depiction at all, but then I could be wrong.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Bull. Like I said, look at the top 250, Shawshank redemption. Top 10, my arse. It is what people remember.

[Datsue]

EDITED: I'm going back to bed.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Back to the point Terry made about them accidentally
getting it right now and then, wasn't i embarrassed when i told everyone who would listen that Graham Earl wasn't gonna be like the rest of Khan's opponents and had a real chance against him, i even persuaded one or two to get a few quid on him as the price was massive.

Similarly when he fought Prescott, they were all raving about this huge puncher from Brazil who was Khan's biggest test yet, just like the SN press releases tried to kid them, yet there i was again telling them it was a joke fight and they'd all been conned, trying to explain how Prescott hadn't beaten anyone.

I think i'll be keeping quiet for the next couple of weeks just in case Paulie doesn't pick Hatton off all night and the twice a year fans start telling me i don't know what i'm talking about again.

hahahahha i said the exact same thing about earl, that was quite emberrassing

Ditto

[gobbles]

Why should boxing be any different, the general masses are thick as hogshite - they believe what they are told no matter what field it is - politics, history - sport.

With football, it's a lot easier to deduce the truth, the team which keeps coming out on top of the league is going to be the best team - it is unassailable.

However, boxing is so subjective, and if people keep ramming down their throats that Calzaghe is the best ever and a living legend etc, and all they have seen is people jerking off on TV over his performances against Hopkins and Jones, plus all the stiffs he fought like Manfredo, who was hyped up to be a dangerous and credible opponent - why wouldn't they believe he's the greatest ever.

Have they ever heard of Jimmy Wilde or Kid Berg? Of course they bloody haven't, do you think a 16 year old Arsenal Fan knows who Stanley Matthews were, or Garincha? Course they bleedin' dont.

Polls like this are to be ignored, just like P4P lists and all time Great lists, all are subjective and influenced by the latest figures in the sport, because that is what most people remember.

If you were to talk about greatest 140 lbers out there, how many people reckon Aaron Pryor would get a mention if you put that poll on a non-fans website. Of course not. They wouldn't know who the bloody hell he was.

Go and look at the Internet Movie Database, and look how many of the top 250 movies of all time are modern films, many of them don't deserve a place in there at all - it's quite clear that many are there because people vote for the films they are familiar with.

Just as you accuse people of overblowing the achievements of Calzaghe, exactly the same arguments could be given to the myths surrounding the likes of Jack Kid Berg and Jimmy Wilde. Take WIlde, for instance. A flyweight who never boxed anyone from Latin America and only one guy from Asia, who knocked him out. Much is made of his huge unbeaten record, but who did he ever beat? Watch tapes of boxing from that era, and the boxers looks slow and once paced. We are, after all, talking about two decades after boxing with gloves started and the sport was still developing, but it's ridiculous to build Wilde up, while putting Calzaghe down. They are products of their eras.
Berg had a couple of great wins in America, but also had an awful lot of losses. Indeed, he is a great fighter, but getting stopped for the British title puts his career in some perspective.

[Khaosai-Galaxy]

Why should boxing be any different, the general masses are thick as hogshite - they believe what they are told no matter what field it is - politics, history - sport.

With football, it's a lot easier to deduce the truth, the team which keeps coming out on top of the league is going to be the best team - it is unassailable.

However, boxing is so subjective, and if people keep ramming down their throats that Calzaghe is the best ever and a living legend etc, and all they have seen is people jerking off on TV over his performances against Hopkins and Jones, plus all the stiffs he fought like Manfredo, who was hyped up to be a dangerous and credible opponent - why wouldn't they believe he's the greatest ever.

Have they ever heard of Jimmy Wilde or Kid Berg? Of course they bloody haven't, do you think a 16 year old Arsenal Fan knows who Stanley Matthews were, or Garincha? Course they bleedin' dont.

Polls like this are to be ignored, just like P4P lists and all time Great lists, all are subjective and influenced by the latest figures in the sport, because that is what most people remember.

If you were to talk about greatest 140 lbers out there, how many people reckon Aaron Pryor would get a mention if you put that poll on a non-fans website. Of course not. They wouldn't know who the bloody hell he was.

Go and look at the Internet Movie Database, and look how many of the top 250 movies of all time are modern films, many of them don't deserve a place in there at all - it's quite clear that many are there because people vote for the films they are familiar with.

Just as you accuse people of overblowing the achievements of Calzaghe, exactly the same arguments could be given to the myths surrounding the likes of Jack Kid Berg and Jimmy Wilde.

absolfuckinglutley, case in point - Randolph Turpin, he always gets mentioned as one of the greatest British boxers of all time, but that was all just based on 1 fight against a very very unfocused SRR

[WildWaylon]

I remember my brother in law who knows sweet FA about F1 reading everything he could after Damon Hill won the title. He then sat in the pub pretending to be some sort of expert. He has great retention and remembered virtualy every written word. Lots of people have opinions based on the opinions of sports writers rather than forming an opinion themselves from watching an event.