Does Khan really deserve a world title shot ?

[stujones]

Two things about the Khan - Barerra fight. Firstly, i saw some footage of Barrera before he fought Khan and said that he looked shot. His speed and reflexes had gone and he had no power at lightweight and whilst Barrera could have made a better fist of it against a less agile and slower fighter, he looked, if not shot, then well well past his best days, so i reluctantly don't give Khan much credit for the victory. Secondly, the cut was as bad in the 2nd round, as it had been in the 5th round, so the fight should have been stopped and declared a "no-contest" and re-scheduled. I think that Khan would have beaten Barrera anyway, regardless of the cut, but it was very dodgy that the fight was allowed to pass the four round marker, so it could go to the cards and Khan get his win.....

Now on the fight I COMPLETELY agree, but you cannot take it from Khan. It stank but that wasn't Khan's fault. Infact I go futher and say, I still don't know who would win between the two... but it wasn't Khan's fault.

Pre fight - I saw those contests also and I was of the view that you cannot judge how shot or past it he was on those fights. Leonard looked far worst in his fight Howard. And my point was, if it was John Murray fighting Barrera - any critcisms? especially if Murray just been splattered 2 fights before.

[world ranked]

Khan is now no5 in WBA LWW rankings!

Oh dear....It gets worse

They must pick names out of a hat

"Ok Jerry, who's next........"

Yes, I agree there and I am not for one minute saying Khan deserve a title fight.

On your other point about Khan and his comments... I really cannot remember those specifics... there always seems to have been a "disagreement" between Warren and Khan, especially back in the ITV days about how ready he was... Khan was going "yeah, Naz's record" and all and Warren was going "hold on now patients" - so I don't think Warren has always had the confidence of Khan. Maybe he needed to KO to realise his errors, change trainers, and improve his defence. Maybe its only now Warren can see he is ready (and Warren was obviously right cause he wasn't ready before).

Why don't we just wait untill we see what he does after Kotelnik. I'm not sure Kotelnik is easily the worst champion in 133 or 140. The WBO 133 title will soon be vacant, the IBF title is vacant and the WBA champion is Moses - very unproven. Looking at the LWW - If Bradley defends his WBC title - the WBO becomes vacant... a good chance Willy Blain will be #1 - much easier for Khan, and anyway since when has Juan Urango become much better than Kotelnik?

It was fine to knock Khan when he was fighting Substandard opposition or blown up Feather... I could even see some logic in the Barrera fight, I didn't agree but could see what people were saying, but this is a marked step up - fighting out of his weight against a credible, fresh, champion and yet he is still getting condemmed.

Ask your self If Juan Urango would even be considered an opponent, when the possibility of Khan getting
KO'd he went for the champ with the least credientials in Kotelnik who, Khan at worst would get a draw because
Kotelnik has never dominated a world class fighter or has beat one clearly.

[Quixall]

Khan is now no5 in WBA LWW rankings!

Oh dear....It gets worse

They must pick names out of a hat

"Ok Jerry, who's next........"

Yes, I agree there and I am not for one minute saying Khan deserve a title fight.

On your other point about Khan and his comments... I really cannot remember those specifics... there always seems to have been a "disagreement" between Warren and Khan, especially back in the ITV days about how ready he was... Khan was going "yeah, Naz's record" and all and Warren was going "hold on now patients" - so I don't think Warren has always had the confidence of Khan. Maybe he needed to KO to realise his errors, change trainers, and improve his defence. Maybe its only now Warren can see he is ready (and Warren was obviously right cause he wasn't ready before).

Why don't we just wait untill we see what he does after Kotelnik. I'm not sure Kotelnik is easily the worst champion in 133 or 140. The WBO 133 title will soon be vacant, the IBF title is vacant and the WBA champion is Moses - very unproven. Looking at the LWW - If Bradley defends his WBC title - the WBO becomes vacant... a good chance Willy Blain will be #1 - much easier for Khan, and anyway since when has Juan Urango become much better than Kotelnik?

It was fine to knock Khan when he was fighting Substandard opposition or blown up Feather... I could even see some logic in the Barrera fight, I didn't agree but could see what people were saying, but this is a marked step up - fighting out of his weight against a credible, fresh, champion and yet he is still getting condemmed.

Having said what i have done, i think that Khan will always cause certain fighters a lot of trouble, at whatever level, because of his hand speed, accuracy, athleticism and punching power. Whether someone is a British, European or World champion, styles still make fights and some fighters can cope more easily with certain styles than others and i think that Khan will be too fast for Kotelnik and perhaps stop him. Khan's problem will be if he tires, gets put on the back foot or gets clocked. Other tahn that i see him beating Kotelnik. I just feel that he wont be able to beat the "elite" fighters, such as Pacquaio, Marquez, Guzman, Valero, Hatton, Bradley, etc etc. One off victories at "supposed" world level, against more limited opponents like kotelnik are a distinct possibility, but consistent performances through two weight divisions (133 & 140) fighting the very best those divisions have to offer......Forget about it

[stujones]

Ask your self If Juan Urango would even be considered an opponent, when the possibility of Khan getting
KO'd he went for the champ with the least credientials in Kotelnik who, Khan at worst would get a draw because
Kotelnik has never dominated a world class fighter or has beat one clearly.

Well it looks like a moot point cause good chance Urango will be stripped anyway. Sure Urango hits far harder, but is ALOT slower than Kotelnik. I think Kotelnik will land more punches on Khan than Urango, whether Kotelniks punches will have an affect - we shall find out.

[tonyevs]

Of course Khan doesn`t deserve a world title fight, but since when did that matter any?

It goes to show the good connections SN have, and the confidence of Kotelnik and his people.

I think people are writing off Kotelnik too quickly, he may not be an outstanding champion .. or even a really good one, but since when has Khan been proven on the world stage?

[stujones]

Having said what i have done, i think that Khan will always cause certain fighters a lot of trouble, at whatever level, because of his hand speed, accuracy, athleticism and punching power. Whether someone is a British, European or World champion, styles still make fights and some fighters can cope more easily with certain styles than others and i think that Khan will be too fast for Kotelnik and perhaps stop him. Khan's problem will be if he tires, gets put on the back foot or gets clocked. Other tahn that i see him beating Kotelnik. I just feel that he wont be able to beat the "elite" fighters, such as Pacquaio, Marquez, Guzman, Valero, Hatton, Bradley, etc etc. One off victories at "supposed" world level, against more limited opponents like kotelnik are a distinct possibility, but consistent performances through two weight divisions (133 & 140) fighting the very best those divisions have to offer......Forget about it

I actually think Kotelnik has the style to give Khan problems, he bigger and has a lovely "solid" jab on him.... last time Khan fought a big guy with a solid jab -look what happened. I honestly think style wise, Kotelnik is more wrong for Khan than Urango - who I think could be teed of all night Khan's always had a significant height and reach advantage, except for against Prescott. Limond boxes tall as does Kristjansen and Drizzlane - all Khan's toughest fights.

[sgtcecil]

also note that in the WBA 140 rankings hatton is one place below khan!!!!!

i know that khan was not ranked last month at 135 by the WBA but beat barrera who was at no 3. where would he have been if he stayed at 135?

just goes to show how much of a farce the governing bodies are!

[Spud]

Of course Khan doesn`t deserve a world title fight, but since when did that matter any?

It goes to show the good connections SN have, and the confidence of Kotelnik and his people.

I think people are writing off Kotelnik too quickly, he may not be an outstanding champion .. or even a really good one, but since when has Khan been proven on the world stage?

Mr W arren gets on very well with the WBO that much is very clear.

In addition W arren and Kotelnik's promoter Kalus-Peter Kohl also get on very well - look at the amount of shows they have done together or "in association with".

[Asterix]

WBA March rankings: http://wbanews.com/artman/publish/ratin ... 2009.shtml

[Finch]

also note that in the WBA 140 rankings hatton is one place below khan!!!!!

i know that khan was not ranked last month at 135 by the WBA but beat barrera who was at no 3. where would he have been if he stayed at 135?

just goes to show how much of a farce the governing bodies are!

If true (and i'm not questioning your credibility, just find it astonishing), then this is a fornicating disgrace ! I now will not even regard the WBA as a recognised world title.

[MightyWarrior]

Course he does, if everyone else and his uncle gets a shot, why not Khan. Which great talent is he stepping over to get his shot at this almost completely unknown champion?
There's so many bloody world titles floating about you sort of run out of decent challengers in the end.
Khan's world title adventure is not going to be a long one, so I'm looking forward to a pretty decent, high profile fight this summer.

This kid Khan gets talked about in every other thread it seems, which has to be a good thing for the sport.

This title holder is going to be over the moon getting a high profile well paid fight like this. And the rest of the boxing world will be looking forward to it too. It beats another defence against a guy NO ONE has heard of.

[Quixall]

Course he does, if everyone else and his uncle gets a shot, why not Khan. Which great talent is he stepping over to get his shot at this almost completely unknown champion?
There's so many bloody world titles floating about you sort of run out of decent challengers in the end.
Khan's world title adventure is not going to be a long one, so I'm looking forward to a pretty decent, high profile fight this summer.

This kid Khan gets talked about in every other thread it seems, which has to be a good thing for the sport.

This title holder is going to be over the moon getting a high profile well paid fight like this. And the rest of the boxing world will be looking forward to it too. It beats another defence against a guy NO ONE has heard of.

It highlights how bad boxing is at this time, where you have all these world champions and yet the fights everyone wants to see never happen......It just devalues the title "world champion"

[MightyWarrior]

It highlights how bad boxing is at this time, where you have all these world champions and yet the fights everyone wants to see never happen......It just devalues the title "world champion"

Yes it does, and to think back in the early 80's we were all moaning about how two champs devalued the sport - where you had rival champs like Sanchez/Pedroza, Hearns/Leonard, Spinks/Braxton and Duran...err Jim Watt ...my god we never realised we had it so good ( well we probably did, secretly )

[tonyevs]

It highlights how bad boxing is at this time, where you have all these world champions and yet the fights everyone wants to see never happen......It just devalues the title "world champion"

The `value` of being a world champion has been devalued for quite some time now ...

How many world champions have we had over the last 10years that you really have to think hard to remember?
It really has reached the point where the fights are more worthy than the titles.

But it really does emphasise the monopoly certain promoters have in regard to getting the title chances. Maybe things like this always happened .. difference is that now these things are more commonly known. Is that really a good thing for boxings image? Sure Khan gets talked about alot - but its for the wrong reasons, so its not a good thing when things like this confirm without doubt all the bad things regarding boxing that goes on around him really does happen :(

[landon]

In any decent world - no. Especially not at 140.

In this garbage-filled world of early 21c boxing - yes.

I agree, that seems to be the distinction and people can quantify their arguments and reasoning by saying that others have got world title shots on similar poor records, but that does'nt justify Khan getting a world title shot. I think it also has something to do with a section of the media, claiming that Khan can be a "p4p" fighter, something that Khan has said himself, when he said that he could beat Paacquaio, shortly before Manny fought De La Hoya. Stuff like that is galling to listen to and on the basis of his record, he has no right to make such claims. If he truely thinks he is that good, then set up a fight with Pacquaio, Marquez, Guzman, Valero, Hatton etc etc and see if he can back his mouth up

spot on!!!!

[dondada]

It highlights how bad boxing is at this time, where you have all these world champions and yet the fights everyone wants to see never happen......It just devalues the title "world champion"

Yes it does, and to think back in the early 80's we were all moaning about how two champs devalued the sport - where you had rival champs like Sanchez/Pedroza, Hearns/Leonard, Spinks/Braxton and Duran...err Jim Watt ...my god we never realised we had it so good ( well we probably did, secretly )

Of course. I'm old enough to remember when the IBF were new kids on the block, WBO unrecognised...now some people are saying four is a good number. It's shite. All the boards are terrible. That's why I still like the British title. I know it can be picked apart but the main problem is getting suitable challengers, especially when there is someone streets ahead of the rest or just not many fighters in the division.

[Carbo]

It highlights how bad boxing is at this time, where you have all these world champions and yet the fights everyone wants to see never happen......It just devalues the title "world champion"

Yes it does, and to think back in the early 80's we were all moaning about how two champs devalued the sport - where you had rival champs like Sanchez/Pedroza, Hearns/Leonard, Spinks/Braxton and Duran...err Jim Watt ...my god we never realised we had it so good ( well we probably did, secretly )

Of course. I'm old enough to remember when the IBF were new kids on the block, WBO unrecognised...now some people are saying four is a good number. It's shite. All the boards are terrible. That's why I still like the British title. I know it can be picked apart but the main problem is getting suitable challengers, especially when there is someone streets ahead of the rest or just not many fighters in the division.

Great post.

Bottom line: IT IS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE WORLD CHAMPION. ONLY BY ALTERING THE MEANINGS OF 'WORLD CHAMPION' AND 'THE BEST' IS IT POSSIBLE.

I understand that proliferation has brought more money to boxers, but it can't change the facts.

[gobbles]

Proliferation of the titles is nothing new. In the old days there was the NBA, IBU, New York and British world titles and that was when the boxing world was basically western Europe and North America, plus a few other outposts.

The problem with one world title is that it gives the champion ridiculous power in negotiations and challengers virtually have to sign their lives away for no pay, unless it's a mandatory. And it is not as if champions defend 4-5 times a year. Some box once or twice a year.

In just about every other sport, a world champion is someone who won a world championship, which everyone was able to enter. Boxing is very different in that way and that is why there is the demand for more champions. What there should be is more support for unifications and less pressure from governing bodies to avoid unifications.

[Autobarn]

In other sports there are numerous international tournaments and events. This might be the best way to look at it. Obviously in boxing you can win a title and not fight anyone world class, and this spreads confusion, and devalues the sport. You can definitely get away with it, more, in boxing. Since the 80s it has simply been a reality that you can have two great champions reigning at the same time and never meeting. Azumah Nelson and Brian Mitchell, Pedroza and Sanchez.

I think they should be called international titles.

The problem with one world title is that it gives the champion ridiculous power in negotiations and challengers virtually have to sign their lives away for no pay, unless it's a mandatory. And it is not as if champions defend 4-5 times a year. Some box once or twice a year.

good point.

also,

ppl moan that charley burley, holman williams, the whole "black murderders row" never got opportunities. that archie moore didn't fight for a world title until an age when most fighters would be retired (or fiished at world level). at least now, there is more chance for underrated fighters to get a foothold, and obviously the ones that are the real deal rise to the top like Hopkins, Winky, etc.

It would be good if all world title holders behaved like Bob Foster did with Rondon. Being pissed off that there was another guy out there calling himself champion and knocking him out. Or it would be good if the real money at each weight were still in unification, as with Spinks and Qawi.

[stujones]

I know we don't live in an ideal world, but just imagine if boxing forums existed when Joe Louis was defending the solitary world title against the bums of the month club.

Its not ideal, but it underseving challengers happened back then - by having more than one champion at least it does give deserving challengers a different route and futher press claims. Say at Light Welter we all class Hitman the man, for me the most deserving Light Welter challenger for Hatton (after Pacquiao) is Bradley... more deserving than Marquez for the moment. By having Bradley as a partial unified champion, its giving him a far better opportunity at getting the fight than if he didn't have the exposure - he'd be avoided even more.

Yes, in an ideal society we'd have one champion who would avoid bums, and take the best challengers even if they were not the money fight - but it doesn't happen. So I think it is the best solution, as daft as it sounds.

The rematch between Eubank and Benn was a bigger EVENT than the first fight because of the exposure both holding championship had, it had an appeal that it was a "unification" fight. Had Benn not been able to have got a championship so quick then it wouldn't have been so big as Benn wouldn't have had the exposure that a "champion" gets.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Proliferation of the titles is nothing new. In the old days there was the NBA, IBU, New York and British world titles and that was when the boxing world was basically western Europe and North America, plus a few other outposts.

The problem with one world title is that it gives the champion ridiculous power in negotiations and challengers virtually have to sign their lives away for no pay, unless it's a mandatory. And it is not as if champions defend 4-5 times a year. Some box once or twice a year.

In just about every other sport, a world champion is someone who won a world championship, which everyone was able to enter. Boxing is very different in that way and that is why there is the demand for more champions. What there should be is more support for unifications and less pressure from governing bodies to avoid unifications.

The trouble also is that someone unifies, they are then made a super champ, and only have to defend once every 18 months - then the titles are split and you have a 'regular' world champion - which is clearly bollocks.

This just serves to confuse the hell out of the general public - thats why there are people out there who probably genuinely will believe that Khan is the best light welterweight in the world if he beats Kotelnik - which is very sad indeed.

[stujones]

Although in Khan's case there is no WBA Super Champion, Kotelnik is the only WBA champion.

[WildWaylon]

As others have said Khan may not deserve the shot but through the years many have got shots at titles without really "qualifying" for that opportunity. I have said all along Khan is at best Euro standard, although he hasnt as yet proved he is. With so many danger men at LW and LWW I cant see Khan being around too long. The elite in both divisions will beat him and Khan wont want to drop down and fight for a British title or European. Thats the problem with going from the primary school straight into university. Khan hasnt worked his way up so he lacks the experiance he needs to have to survive at world level. Add to that his inability to take a good shot to the head or body and his reign at the top, if he gets there, looks like being short lived. The story of Khan is not about a great fighter, its all about hype and making a small fortune for as long as possible. I can see another Khan crisis before this year ends.

[MightyWarrior]

Although in Khan's case there is no WBA Super Champion, Kotelnik is the only WBA champion.

He's listed on boxrec as being the "ordinary" WBA champion, which says it all really.

[Quixall]

As others have said Khan may not deserve the shot but through the years many have got shots at titles without really "qualifying" for that opportunity. I have said all along Khan is at best Euro standard, although he hasnt as yet proved he is. With so many danger men at LW and LWW I cant see Khan being around too long. The elite in both divisions will beat him and Khan wont want to drop down and fight for a British title or European. Thats the problem with going from the primary school straight into university. Khan hasnt worked his way up so he lacks the experiance he needs to have to survive at world level. Add to that his inability to take a good shot to the head or body and his reign at the top, if he gets there, looks like being short lived. The story of Khan is not about a great fighter, its all about hype and making a small fortune for as long as possible. I can see another Khan crisis before this year ends.

I wrote very similar sentiments earlier in the thread and like you, i can't see Khan being around too long, three years at max. He will lose to the first elite fighter that he faces (Not Kotelnik) and then will have a few comeback fights, go for the elites again, lose and then retire. If Khan had of gone the traditional route to a world title, he would have fallen many fences ago and would be no-where near a wrld title challenge. The fact remains that Khan will always cause certain fighters problems, at whaterver level, because of the hand speed, accuracy, range of shots, hs athleticism and power, but equally, certain fighters will always cause Khan problems, regardless of what level they are at. So, Khan always has an equal chance of winning a one off , supposed "world class" fight, like is the case with Kotelnik, as he is of losing in a one off fight with an "ordinary" fighter, like the Limond's, Gomez' and Prescott's of this world.