Frochy beats Kessler.. better resume than Joe (NO ARGUMENTS)

[BundiniBrown.]

Congrats to Froch but last night he proved he isn't in Calazaghe's league, who I am not particularly fond of unlike Mr Molyneux. Last night exposed Froch's weaknesses as much as it displayed his abilities, poor defense, slowish hands, easy to hit, just not elite level boxing skills.

Calazaghe wouldn't just have beaten Froch he probably wins near to every round. And if I was Calzaghe and I watched that I'd get in with him and school him, that is if he can be bothered with boxing anymore. Taylor would have nearly won every round if he had Calzaghe like stamina to fight like he did in the first 6rounds. And Froch needs to stay away from Kessler who will beat him and probably a Taylor rematch too.

Yeh....well..........lets see if Calzaghe is as confident as you and takes the easy payday you are talking about..............lets see?......Calzaghe gets put down by two old fighters in his last two fights.......Froch would be the most dangerous opponant Calzaghe ever faced and Calzaghe is past his best.

If Carl Froch beat Calzaghe, Joe whole career would be in tatters.......he knows it and his Dad Gonzo knows it..............and thats why they don't take the fight.


YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOXING!

[DG.]

I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOXING!

I agree!

[BundiniBrown.]

I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOXING!

I agree!

Yeh and your the clown that stole my quotes on ESB about David Haye and Manny Stewart.

[fluxstuff]

Congrats to Froch but last night he proved he isn't in Calazaghe's league, who I am not particularly fond of unlike Mr Molyneux. Last night exposed Froch's weaknesses as much as it displayed his abilities, poor defense, slowish hands, easy to hit, just not elite level boxing skills.

Calazaghe wouldn't just have beaten Froch he probably wins near to every round. And if I was Calzaghe and I watched that I'd get in with him and school him, that is if he can be bothered with boxing anymore. Taylor would have nearly won every round if he had Calzaghe like stamina to fight like he did in the first 6rounds. And Froch needs to stay away from Kessler who will beat him and probably a Taylor rematch too.

Yeh....well..........lets see if Calzaghe is as confident as you and takes the easy payday you are talking about..............lets see?......Calzaghe gets put down by two old fighters in his last two fights.......Froch would be the most dangerous opponant Calzaghe ever faced and Calzaghe is past his best.

If Carl Froch beat Calzaghe, Joe whole career would be in tatters.......he knows it and his Dad Gonzo knows it..............and thats why they don't take the fight.


YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOXING!

If you honestly watched Froch-Taylor and didn't see why he has no chance of beating even a slowed down, demotivated Calzaghe, you clearly don't know enough about boxing to accuse others of the same thing. Please explain exactly how Froch beats Calzaghe, round by round. Thanks.

[gobbles]

The problem with this sort of thread is it just ends up with the backer of one slagging off the other.
I would say that they are both great British champions. Froch got through last night on guts, determination, fitness and power, but if he is to go on a unify titles, he has to learn from it. For too long, Froch has got by on this belief that he has a granite chin. But he must improve his defence and he must box, not just get so wild as he did at times.

[BundiniBrown.]

Congrats to Froch but last night he proved he isn't in Calazaghe's league, who I am not particularly fond of unlike Mr Molyneux. Last night exposed Froch's weaknesses as much as it displayed his abilities, poor defense, slowish hands, easy to hit, just not elite level boxing skills.

Calazaghe wouldn't just have beaten Froch he probably wins near to every round. And if I was Calzaghe and I watched that I'd get in with him and school him, that is if he can be bothered with boxing anymore. Taylor would have nearly won every round if he had Calzaghe like stamina to fight like he did in the first 6rounds. And Froch needs to stay away from Kessler who will beat him and probably a Taylor rematch too.

Yeh....well..........lets see if Calzaghe is as confident as you and takes the easy payday you are talking about..............lets see?......Calzaghe gets put down by two old fighters in his last two fights.......Froch would be the most dangerous opponant Calzaghe ever faced and Calzaghe is past his best.

If Carl Froch beat Calzaghe, Joe whole career would be in tatters.......he knows it and his Dad Gonzo knows it..............and thats why they don't take the fight.


YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOXING!

If you honestly watched Froch-Taylor and didn't see why he has no chance of beating even a slowed down, demotivated Calzaghe, you clearly don't know enough about boxing to accuse others of the same thing. Please explain exactly how Froch beats Calzaghe, round by round. Thanks.

Narh, i'll let you do a RBR and make a fool of yourself.......smart lad.

[Fr Hairycake Lynam]

Froch needs to fight Billy 'The Duddy Destroyer' Lyell to seal his reputation.

[jBacca]

Froch took his time before fighting anyone especially good. His best win before Pascal was Reid. A worn out, broken down, disinterested Robin Reid - not the guy that gave Calzaghe a run for his money.

Some people on here are very selective with their facts and their interpretation of them. Joe had a close fight with Hopkins who proved in his very next fight that he was still a top level fighter against Pavlik - regardless of his age. He ran out of gas because of Calzaghe making him work. He fought negative as soon as Joe negated his right hand and lost fairly to the guy making the fight happen.

Taylor hasn't been "prime" since the first win against Hopkins and that seemed to damage him permanently. He's never fought the same way. Even this shop-worn, frightened Taylor who played safe against a broken down, ruined Lacy (who let's not forget, was ruined by Calzaghe), was dismantling Froch. He was well behind till the KD and KO.

Some idiot made the point about Andrade being a d-level fighter. I bet he'd give Froch all kinds of trouble. Constant workrate, decent power, solid chin. What can Carl do when he has zero defence, slow hands and his opponent can take everything he throws?

Same against Kessler. He throws hard, straight shots with speed and precision, his uppercut would reduce Carl to a pile of salts. BUte has the movement and power to put Carl down permanently in a fight. He's just a decent, euro level banger who got the good fortune of an unproven vacant challenger and a worn-out Taylot who was beating him soundly.

The end.

+2

[superpunchout]

Congrats to Froch but last night he proved he isn't in Calazaghe's league, who I am not particularly fond of unlike Mr Molyneux. Last night exposed Froch's weaknesses as much as it displayed his abilities, poor defense, slowish hands, easy to hit, just not elite level boxing skills.

Calazaghe wouldn't just have beaten Froch he probably wins near to every round. And if I was Calzaghe and I watched that I'd get in with him and school him, that is if he can be bothered with boxing anymore. Taylor would have nearly won every round if he had Calzaghe like stamina to fight like he did in the first 6rounds. And Froch needs to stay away from Kessler who will beat him and probably a Taylor rematch too.

Agreed.

Froch is a hard case and tactically aware but I wasn't very impressed with his boxing ability last night. It was like Sakio Bika pretending to be Roy Jones.

[sendo]

Calzaghe is certainly not the master boxer being portrayed on here, great speed and workrate but the number of times he left his chin right up in the air during his slapping flurries. Would strongly fancy Froch to land a big right on it and put him down, unlike Hopkins and Jones he would also have the stamina to follow up and take Joe out.

Would still make Joe favourite, but I'd say only 70%-30% at this point with the odds shifting a bit more to Carl if he learns from the Taylor fight and was genuinely hampered by nerves early on (which seems very credible).

[gobbles]

froch beats calzaghe. bika gave calzaghe fits. salem had him seeing stars. oldies droped him in america. reid beat him imo. eubank had him almost out in the last round, i could go on.

no way he wins every round against carl.

You could go on, but it's nonsense.

Bika was awkward and nutted him, but barely won a round, Salem was a flash knockdown, even Reid admitted he lost. You are just reinventing history, taking every bit of negative stuff you have ever read and presenting it as a supposed considered opinion. But it just reads like rubbish.

Based on the Taylor fight, how would Froch stop getting hit? He has too many fights like the last two and he is going to have a short career.

[Captain Hook]

This simply cannot be argued.

Froch has gone over to America and fought a Jermain Taylor IN HIS PRIME in my opinion.

Taylor was good but careless against Pavlik the first time and corrected that in the next fight (I believe he won). But whatever, he did a LOT better and improved as a fighter and got some good wins after that. Carl went over and DID THE JOB.

He has called Calzaghe out but I doubt Joe will go for it. If Froch fights Kessler next and beats him then he has a more impressive resume than Calzaghe NO ARGUMENTS (I believe he has already as Kessler is unproved at top level imo).

So there you have it guys. I present my case and this is not to be disputed.

Looks like Froch is going to be GREATER than Calzaghe!

Every fornicating thread you start is IFS and BUTS about Calzaghe - get a life you soft c***

[Captain Hook]

Congrats to Froch but last night he proved he isn't in Calazaghe's league, who I am not particularly fond of unlike Mr Molyneux. Last night exposed Froch's weaknesses as much as it displayed his abilities, poor defense, slowish hands, easy to hit, just not elite level boxing skills.

Calazaghe wouldn't just have beaten Froch he probably wins near to every round. And if I was Calzaghe and I watched that I'd get in with him and school him, that is if he can be bothered with boxing anymore. Taylor would have nearly won every round if he had Calzaghe like stamina to fight like he did in the first 6rounds. And Froch needs to stay away from Kessler who will beat him and probably a Taylor rematch too.

Yeh....well..........lets see if Calzaghe is as confident as you and takes the easy payday you are talking about..............lets see?......Calzaghe gets put down by two old fighters in his last two fights.......Froch would be the most dangerous opponant Calzaghe ever faced and Calzaghe is past his best.

If Carl Froch beat Calzaghe, Joe whole career would be in tatters.......he knows it and his Dad Gonzo knows it..............and thats why they don't take the fight.


YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOXING!

Calzaghe is retired, move on.....idiot.

[Captain Hook]

froch beats calzaghe. bika gave calzaghe fits. salem had him seeing stars. oldies droped him in america. reid beat him imo. eubank had him almost out in the last round, i could go on.

no way he wins every round against carl.

You could go on, but it's nonsense.

Bika was awkward and nutted him, but barely won a round, Salem was a flash knockdown, even Reid admitted he lost. You are just reinventing history, taking every bit of negative stuff you have ever read and presenting it as a supposed considered opinion. But it just reads like rubbish.

Based on the Taylor fight, how would Froch stop getting hit? He has too many fights like the last two and he is going to have a short career.

Agreed mate, some bloody narrow-minded prats when it comes to Calzaghe.

[superpunchout]

Calzaghe is very very overrated on this forum.

Who did he ever fight in their prime? Who did he ever fight who was as fast as Taylor? Who did he ever fight who was as GOOD as Taylor. Think about that one and get back to me.

Mention Kessler but then mention what Kessler has done to get consideration as a top fighter, other than do well for a third of a fight against Calzaghe.

You can make all the excuses in the world mate, but Calzaghe hasn't got the balls Froch has. If he had he would have fought Roy and Bernard YEARS before.

I think Froch would pressurise Calzaghe and run him down. Calzaghes pitter patter punches that work on bums and old fighters, wouldn't work on Froch.

Personally, I think a fast fighter like Taylor (faster than anyone Joe has faced), could do Calzaghe. We know Calzaghe can be dropped easily.

Calzaghe's career path has been blighted with a miriad of false dawns but after a frustratingly prolonged period he unified the division with comprehensive wins and became a 2 weight world champion (he beat Bhop in America and as Pavlik found out to the detriment of his career, even at 43 year old Bhop is still a very difficult and live challenge). I didn't like the Roy Jones white wash though because RJ was definately damaged goods.
Make no mistake Calzaghe may not quite have the resume to be a true legend, if that's fair enough, but he was a tremendously skilled boxer, heck even Carl Froch will grant as much when he's feeling magnanimous.
To try and discredit him in the fashion you are doing just doesn't do justice to how good a fighter he really was.
I'm sorry to say this but it just sounds like you've got it in for him.

[big lennox]

I thought Froch showed a lot of character and is as tough as old boots. Calzaghe is miles better though.Can you imagine that Calzaghe that boxed lacy showed up against froch last night.He would give him the hiding of a lifetime.

Kessler would stop Froch I think. He hits far harder that taylor and is a very accurate puncher and just as strong as Froch. I bet you they keep his promoters keep him miles away from Kessler, and with good reason.

[tobyh5]

I am shocked that people are suddenly pretending that people are going overboard about Carl on the back of this. Or maybe I am not as people do like to get caught up in immediate euthoria and only seem to appreciate "now" in life rather than yesterday.

How about this. Taylor was a middleweight moving up a division. He had two amazing results against Hopkins but make no mistake, that Hopkins was not the Hopkins we had seen previously nor the one we have seen subsequently. Nevertheless, kudos as he got the victories albeit close and disputed ones. After that he detoriated as a fighter which was pretty much universally accepted as he struggled with a trio of JUNIOR middleweights, maybe due to lack of desire having achieved his dream. When he fought Pavlik he was at that stage viewed as a lame duck champion ready to be knocked out by the first genuine solid middleweight contender he fought. He lost to Pavlik twice and has since beaten Jeff Lacy. Lacy is clearly damaged good and a ruined fighter but still managed to put Jermain on his arse.

So it is fair to say that Jermain Taylor is a much higher level of opponent than your regular challenger but is also a smaller weighted fighter than Carl who has struggled with 11 stone fellas. He has two close wins against a legend and then struggled, drew or lost in every fight he has taken part in subsequently over the last three years and compiled a record of 3-3-1.

He then knocked Carl on his back and was winning the fight easily until his stamina let him down. Watch the fight, Carl looks pretty bad for the majority of the fight. He is getting caught with tremendous shots, flush jabs and at times looked clumsy, ungainly and was missing most of his own shots.

So you have two elements here.
1. Taylor a smaller fighter naturally, he has been beaten and not looked particularly good in his last seven contests so is a very good fighter, world class, better than the average opponent but not this amazingly great fighter that has been portrayed.
2. A last round knock out does not take away from the previous 11 rounds of utter rubbish that was put forth by Froch.

So the title of this thread, "Better resume than Joe"? Beating one former champion that is not a stranger to losing is pretty much standard the type of name most half decent world champion has on his record.

Let me ask this. Do you think Jermain Taylor would have posed anywhere near as much trouble to Joe Calzaghe and is so, what evidence do you have to support your argument.

[Captain Hook]

I guess time will tell.

Personally I don't see what Kessler has done to be rated so highly, besides do well for a third of a fight against Calzaghe and I think Froch would do him.

People bring the Lacy fight up a lot but fail to realize just how SH*T Lacy actually is. That win meant nothing.

B-Hop beat Pavlik because Pavlik is painfully one dimensional. Old Roy would beat him too

If Lacy is shit then why are you making so much of a last-gasp victory by Froch over a guy who beat a faded Lacy last time out. Calzaghe destroyed Lacy and he has never been the same since.

Before those two met around 50% of this board had him to knock JC out...

[BABY BLUE]

i cant see a fight between clazaghe and froch happening anytime soon. well calzghe has already said that he retired and staying retired. no matter how much money is involved.

[superpunchout]

I guess time will tell.

Personally I don't see what Kessler has done to be rated so highly, besides do well for a third of a fight against Calzaghe and I think Froch would do him.

People bring the Lacy fight up a lot but fail to realize just how SH*T Lacy actually is. That win meant nothing.

B-Hop beat Pavlik because Pavlik is painfully one dimensional. Old Roy would beat him too

If Lacy is shit then why are you making so much of a last-gasp victory by Froch over a guy who beat a faded Lacy last time out. Calzaghe destroyed Lacy and he has never been the same since.

Before those two met around 50% of this board had him to knock JC out...

Lacy was pretty good before Joe got him, not amazing but talented and strong enough to walk through the punches of better technicians and score the knockout, similar to Carl Froch in some respects. His image also gave him that 'aura', there was a fairly well documented tale of one opponent taking things no further than the scales once he beheld Lacy's popeye esque physique. That may be ad-hoc but there was definately a fear factor about him. Nevertheless, Calzaghe had the balls and self belief to see through all of that and box the way he wanted to. That for me was what made the night so special.

[Autobarn]

Don't reckon it would happen. If Taylor was shown live on ITV and had a big build up over here. If loads of Brits saw the high drama. If it would be a massive fight guaranteed, then maybe.

I'd also pick Froch over Joe as he's an active fighter who's had a hard learning curve in the last 2 fights. Joe is easy to hit though his engine is impressive.

Was Joe willing to fight a pound for pounder / allaged Hall of Famer, in title defence #2?

Like fvck he was.

While Joe got international recognition, it's Froch who is more reminiscent of the real stars of British boxing, Benn and Eubank.

[BundiniBrown.]

Froch would knock Joe out early. Calzaghe's chin is china these days, he got dropped by a Hopkins "Bruce Lee" punch which travelled like 3inches and then Jones rubbed his forearm on Joe and Welshy nearly went to sleep from that too. Both in first round, both from guys without real KO wins win years.

And Calzaghe CANNOT knock Froch down, it is impossible for a man who hit Lacy, Jones and the others with 1000 and more punches and them last the distance to expect to hurt Froch.

Maybe Joe could pitta-patter his way to point win, but I doubt it. Not now. Joe should stick to golf, safe in the knowledge there's plenty of idiots who don't know any better who will claim forever he is best UK fighter since Alfred the Great and blah blah

Good post.

[superpunchout]

A general question now. I'm just a fan and have no direct involvement with the boxing I'm sorry to say, I know a little bit about the sport and dabbled a when I was younger. Anyway I point this out to illustrate that I don't have any inside knowledge as such and accordingly have to ask, is Calzaghe a bit disliked within the boxing community?

[tobyh5]

People bring the Lacy fight up a lot but fail to realize just how SH*T Lacy actually is. That win meant nothing.

Then get in there and fight him yourself big balls.

[observer1]

Don't reckon it would happen. If Taylor was shown live on ITV and had a big build up over here. If loads of Brits saw the high drama. If it would be a massive fight guaranteed, then maybe.

I'd also pick Froch over Joe as he's an active fighter who's had a hard learning curve in the last 2 fights. Joe is easy to hit though his engine is impressive.

Was Joe willing to fight a pound for pounder / allaged Hall of Famer, in title defence #2?

Like fvck he was.

While Joe got international recognition, it's Froch who is more reminiscent of the real stars of British boxing, Benn and Eubank.

Agreed