Watch this video of Kevin Kelley.......Riddick Blowe wrote:correct, observe guys like pernell whitaker and many others with blinding speed but not big power.
Fast hands has never guaranteed power. Khan just isn't a big hitter fullstop, and Kotelnik has probably fought at least 10 guys who hit harder.
good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.
On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.
And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?
If it gets to the late rounds, I think 'opting for safety' will be Kotelnik going for the KO, not surviving to suffer a dodgy decision.WildWaylon wrote:I think it could be a UD with Kotelnik winning. I can see him comming on strong in the later rounds having answered everything Khan has to offer. I can see Khan going down late in the fight but he may survive for the final bell. Apart from Prescott, Kotelnik is the biggest fighter Khan has faced. Khan also hasnt fought at this level before, with the exeption of MAB which was clearly rigged in favour of Khan after the cut. Khan has speed but lacks power and still leaves his chin unprotected. My bet is Kotelnik will slow Khan down with body punches, he may go for a late KO but if ahead on points he may opt for safety. To win this Khan will need help from the ref to get a contraversial decision, you know what I mean a flurry of pitter patter punches, which would be awful.
You could well be right. I was overlooking the support he would get from the judges as well as the ref.Riddick Blowe wrote:If it gets to the late rounds, I think 'opting for safety' will be Kotelnik going for the KO, not surviving to suffer a dodgy decision.WildWaylon wrote:I think it could be a UD with Kotelnik winning. I can see him comming on strong in the later rounds having answered everything Khan has to offer. I can see Khan going down late in the fight but he may survive for the final bell. Apart from Prescott, Kotelnik is the biggest fighter Khan has faced. Khan also hasnt fought at this level before, with the exeption of MAB which was clearly rigged in favour of Khan after the cut. Khan has speed but lacks power and still leaves his chin unprotected. My bet is Kotelnik will slow Khan down with body punches, he may go for a late KO but if ahead on points he may opt for safety. To win this Khan will need help from the ref to get a contraversial decision, you know what I mean a flurry of pitter patter punches, which would be awful.
Riddock, after reading these posts, i have to admit i was wrong in asserting that speed = power. Having thought about about it, i agree with your post above, in that it's a very complicated science, as to how a fighter delivers power, because all fighters are different. My point about Khan was that he will stop a lot of his oppopents because of the hand speed and as you said in a previous reply, it's the punch that they don't see, which knocks them out or the sheer volume of unanswered punches, causes the referee to intervene and stop the fight, as was the case with the Michael Gomez fight. I have never boxed or trained and am an enthusiastic boxing fan, but i'm still learning about the sport and it's through these debates that i learn more. Did you watch the Kevein Kelley video ? What did you think ?Riddick Blowe wrote:good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.
On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.
And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?
I have always believed power starts with the legs and follows through. Mike Tyson is a good example of this.Quixall wrote:Riddock, after reading these posts, i have to admit i was wrong in asserting that speed = power. Having thought about about it, i agree with your post above, in that it's a very complicated science, as to how a fighter delivers power, because all fighters are different. My point about Khan was that he will stop a lot of his oppopents because of the hand speed and as you said in a previous reply, it's the punch that they don't see, which knocks them out or the sheer volume of unanswered punches, causes the referee to intervene and stop the fight, as was the case with the Michael Gomez fight. I have never boxed or trained and am an enthusiastic boxing fan, but i'm still learning about the sport and it's through these debates that i learn more. Did you watch the Kevein Kelley video ? What did you think ?Riddick Blowe wrote:good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.
On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.
And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?
Gut instinct says Khan will do it; whilst he is chinny, Kotelnik is no Prescott and has shown in the past that he is very defensively minded against good fighters. I fancy it'll be controversial (maybe a la Limond?) but that the Brit will do it in the end.NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:alexpaterson wrote:Khan doesnt know how to deal with the fact that Kotelnik is not stopping when he throws his punches that lack power IMO
speed is power, Khan can crack and he is stronger than the boy that initially turned pro.
also...to those that think Kotelnik is going to simply wait til Khan makes a mistake then pummel him...didn't he take like, 11 or 12 rounds to pummel Gavin Rees??
Gavin Rees is a hell of a lot tougher than Khan. While limited, he has an unquestionable fighter's heart and he was shipping a lot of punishment. It won't need nearly as much for Kotelnik to send Khan into orbit, and I would even argue that Khan will be easier to hit than Rees. Rees was bobbing and weaving and being pesky. Khan just leaves his chin in the air and his reaction speed, defence reflexes and lateral movement are really sub-par. Getting on his bike and keeping his hands up are only going to get him so far in this one.NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:alexpaterson wrote:Khan doesnt know how to deal with the fact that Kotelnik is not stopping when he throws his punches that lack power IMO
speed is power, Khan can crack and he is stronger than the boy that initially turned pro.
also...to those that think Kotelnik is going to simply wait til Khan makes a mistake then pummel him...didn't he take like, 11 or 12 rounds to pummel Gavin Rees??
I totally agree that Khan is more talented than our recent olympians, I have not been Khans biggest fan but he has the tools that the other dont, its just his chin that might let him doen. Thats the exciting part for me though, will he? wont he?ArtOfWar wrote:Good article here about Khan's preparation for Kotelink and how he's coming along.
http://m a x b o xing.com /Gabriel/Montoya060509.asp
You could definitely see the improvements against Barrera and hopefully he'll be even better this time. Is anyone else more optimistic about his future, even with his questionable chin?
I certainly am, because he always had unbelievable talent and now the technical aspects of his game will improve with Roach. The extra few pounds might even help him to hold a shot better. I think he's more talented than all the Olympians from the last games, it's just comes down to how his chin holds up when he gets cracked.
good discussion anywayQuixall wrote:Riddock, after reading these posts, i have to admit i was wrong in asserting that speed = power. Having thought about about it, i agree with your post above, in that it's a very complicated science, as to how a fighter delivers power, because all fighters are different. My point about Khan was that he will stop a lot of his oppopents because of the hand speed and as you said in a previous reply, it's the punch that they don't see, which knocks them out or the sheer volume of unanswered punches, causes the referee to intervene and stop the fight, as was the case with the Michael Gomez fight. I have never boxed or trained and am an enthusiastic boxing fan, but i'm still learning about the sport and it's through these debates that i learn more. Did you watch the Kevein Kelley video ? What did you think ?Riddick Blowe wrote:good post, punching power goes a lot further than just speed=power, it is actually an incredibly complicated sequence of things which often divides boxing experts. Leg and shoulder strength, speed, torque, leverage, arm length, body proportions, they all contribute to varying extents for different fighters. Relative to the top hitters, Khan is not a power puncher, you can tell by the way guys react to his shots, stick around, he doesn't deck people hard, etc.crusader wrote:Paul Malignaggi has fast hands! As does Eddie Chambers, I wonder why they have no power. The guys who stand out to me for their KO power like Abraham, Tua, Pavlik, Froch, Klitschko, Adamek, Ortiz, JML, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Julian Jackson, Ernie Shavers, George Foreman etc, etc are slow. Just because Kevin Kelly thinks one thing doesn't make it true and I never considered him to be a legit power puncher.
On the other hand , speed allows guys to land hard shots more often with their full power before the other guy can respond, and even an average hitter can hurt you if he lands clean. Speed also helps you connect more often and thus the accumulation of shots will wear down your opponent. But I disagree with the simple statement speed=power. I usually find that match ups are between a fast lighter hitting guy, and a slower stronger fighter.
And a guys like Paquaio and Tyson don't prove speed=power. I'm sure its also possible to have naturally fast hands and a natural KO punch. This combination is what makes guys like them so rare and stand out from the rest of the field. Can you imagine how devastating FM, Calderon, and Malignaggi would be if they had serious knockout power?
Blown up super featherweight Gavin Rees went into the 12th round with Koletnik whilst marching into
Khan may be chinny - but Koletnik is not the man to take advantage.jtourettes wrote:Not 100% sure but I'm leaning towards a Kotelnik KO 8/9 rd barring a suspect stoppage in Khan's favour. Not really seen enough of Khan with Roach to accurately judge how much he's improved but Khan's punch power is over-rated and that chin is always going to be his undoing.