Ortiz-Maidana **SPOILER**

[alexpaterson]

Would love to see Maidana v Ricardo Torres.

Torres has come off yet another wild war. Following the slugfest with Cotto & 2 controversial fights with Holt, he was in a crazy up and downer with Raul Pinzon.

That would be an amazing fight both can be put down and hurt I dont see it going past 3 rounds either way but I would say Maidana KO 3rd but he may very well get KO'd himself what a fight though

[charlieb]

Wouldn't mind a bit of Maidana vs Prescott either.

I thought the cornermen should have called it off inbetween rounds, you could see Ortiz wasn't there and he's young enough to come again, next time with a smarter approach. I thought it would be a horrible KO when they did let him continue, because Maidana was swinging bombs... the quitting didn't bother me. He did the right thing.

[alexpaterson]

Bradley vs Maidana maybe that would be a good fight for him or maybe even the winner of Alexander-Witter He could be outboxed but he is so exciting

[Autobarn]

Never been smitten with Victor. Had he not been America I doubt he would've gotten the hype that he did.

I do wonder whether he's struggled at the weight.

Gotten?! Are you taking the American thing a bit too seriously Emerson

You're right though. He was a hype job and they protected his chin for as long as they could. With that in mind, fair play for them taking the Maidana match though. Brave matchmaking or stupidity?

Lol. I just think he's another limited American hype job (see Kirkland, Angulo, Julio). They teach them how to hit hard and never how to box safely.

If Ortiz was English Current Scene would be calling him a fraud.

good point. have to blame TV and promoters for smug relationship, deciding who the greats are before they've done bugger all. a nice hook to the guts for the powers that be.

[lirva]

he definitely deserved the decision against Witter

I hate this comment on boards. Predictably the guys who make this comment don't bother responding to my comment, which usually is, POST YOUR SCORECARD. Because I gave Witter the first 6 and the 12th. So if Kotelnik definitely deserved the decision (and you said DEFINITELY so I'm presuming you gave him the fight by more than 2 rounds), then post the rounds that you think Kotelnik won APART from 7/8/9/10/11, because I gave him them rounds.

Once you do that, we can look at the rounds we disagree on.

[jBacca]

Cracking little fight.

Gutted to see Ortiz fanny it in the 6th, no heart

[MecnunK]

wtf@his interview afterwards. "I am a young guy but I dont deserve to be beaten up like that" err you kinda picked the wrong sport then mate. Its not all hugs and kisses in there.. He came across as having no heart in the interview but in the fight he did show some heart up until quitting.

[lirva]

wtf@his interview afterwards. "I am a young guy but I dont deserve to be beaten up like that" err you kinda picked the wrong sport then mate. Its not all hugs and kisses in there.. He came across as having no heart in the interview but in the fight he did show some heart up until quitting.

Ortiz was brutally honest in that interview. Obviously he was highly emotional inside, considering what happened, and Kellerman asked him good questions which required him to just answer honestly. I respect Ortiz more after that interview. He did quit, no question - if the ref didn't call the doctor up, he would have just walked to his corner. But he didn't cover it up... he admitted he would have been KOd and didn't have the heart to go on any more. Not every fighter is a Corrales.

If you think back to the likes of Zab judah, when Cotto beat him, he made every excuse in the book. Truth is, he just didn't want it enough. Most fighters make the decision to quit instead of getting up (very few have the championship heart) but the ones who quit, always give an excuse.

You have to respect the way Ortiz didn't offer one. However, who would pay to see him up against a dangerous fighter when he has readily admitted he will quit if he thinks he is beaten? his chin looked OK to me (the first knockdown was bang on the button and he got up), so it's HEART that is his problem and he knows it. I think the loss destroyed him.

[tonyevs]

Maidana looks like the Edison Miranda of the 140 division ..

Ortiz, like many hyped prospects - looked very uncomfortable being forced onto the back foot, and I take back what I previously wrote about his chin - his chin is sound.

Great fight.

[MecnunK]

You are right in what you say in terms of honesty and not making excuses and also that even though he had a smile on his face emotions were playing havoc inside of him however I was just disappointed with his quit attitude and couple of his statements as I was beginning to become a fan. First I thought he cant see from his left eye as it was badly swollen hence he quit but afterwards you could see swelling was mostly around the corner above cheekbone and he looked to have the use of both eyes. I guess I just expected a bit more grit from a young upcoming hard hitting fighter.

[gobbles]

he definitely deserved the decision against Witter

I hate this comment on boards. Predictably the guys who make this comment don't bother responding to my comment, which usually is, POST YOUR SCORECARD. Because I gave Witter the first 6 and the 12th. So if Kotelnik definitely deserved the decision (and you said DEFINITELY so I'm presuming you gave him the fight by more than 2 rounds), then post the rounds that you think Kotelnik won APART from 7/8/9/10/11, because I gave him them rounds.

Once you do that, we can look at the rounds we disagree on.

I thought Witter won. Was a mile clear at halfway and ran out of gas, but still did enough to win.

[gobbles]

I hope Maidana makes some waves. Inexperience may have cost him against Maidana. I agree, it always did seem like it was going to be a great fight.

140-pounds is pretty drab so Maidana can add some colour. He has earned his next world title shot.

If Khan beats Kotelnik, Khan has to face Maidana. I can't wait to see how Khan, Warren, the PR and the media morons SQUIRM their way around avoiding that fight.

Since losing to Prescott, Khan had one easy fight followed by Barrera and Kotelnik. Who exactly is he avoiding? And wouldn't you think that is a suitably ambitious timetable.

[crusader]

Lol. I just think he's another limited American hype job (see Kirkland, Angulo, Julio). They teach them how to hit hard and never how to box safely.

If Ortiz was English Current Scene would be calling him a fraud.

Yes ORTIZ was the guy that everyone talked about would splatter KHAN (he was beaten by Khan as an amateur)

That talk has gone Silent now :)

Khan is a 180 in terms of style and attributes when compared to Maidana and I think he would have been finished the first time Ortiz connected cleanly. He wouldn't have the balls to take the fight to Ortiz like Maidana did and he lacks the clubbing power of the Argentinian. Ortiz for the flaws he showed is a very sharp puncher with excellent power, good size, and I would still pick him to beat Khan, although not with the same confidence prior to the fight. Don't just forget about Khans 54 second drubbing at the hands of a still unproven 135 pound banger. Ortiz' 6 round war where he floored his opponent 3 times is a good result when compared to that.

I was big on Ortiz, but willing to admit that he had a shaky chin and could get caught. That is what happened last night and I was disappointed to see him pull out despite some ppl stating that it was the right thing to do.

I still think he can do significant things because hes young and talented, he needs to work on tightening up his defence and fighting a little smarter. Did the current scene overate him? Probably, but its not like this forum doesn't overate British fighters either. I have seen people say that Carl Froch is a p4p top 10/15 fighter right now and that Jaime Moore would beat Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez, even though he has an even less impressive resume than Ortiz does, so it goes both ways.

[Shirow]

Lol. I just think he's another limited American hype job (see Kirkland, Angulo, Julio). They teach them how to hit hard and never how to box safely.

If Ortiz was English Current Scene would be calling him a fraud.

good point. have to blame TV and promoters for smug relationship, deciding who the greats are before they've done bugger all. a nice hook to the guts for the powers that be.[/quote]

I think this is a good reality check for GBP & HBO. Ortiz was virtually anointed as Golden Boy II and there isn't a ready replacement. GBP & HBO may well have to stick with Ortiz and market him as a guy who can and will be beaten but guarantees exciting fights.
Less emphasis on unbeaten records and more on action by these two companies can only be a good thing if it happens.

[lirva]

[quote="crusader]I have seen people say that Jaime Moore would beat Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez, even though he has an even less impressive resume than Ortiz does, so it goes both ways.[/quote]

Fantastic point. With results like the Ortiz one, you get some Brits on the board babbling on about how Ortiz was overrated etc. Well, just last month I had a hard time trying to convince people on this board that Jamie Moore has no chance against Paul Williams. People were talking up Locketts chances against Pavlik on this board too, which I also had to comment on and set people straight on.

[Autobarn]

I hope Maidana makes some waves. Inexperience may have cost him against Maidana. I agree, it always did seem like it was going to be a great fight.

140-pounds is pretty drab so Maidana can add some colour. He has earned his next world title shot.

If Khan beats Kotelnik, Khan has to face Maidana. I can't wait to see how Khan, Warren, the PR and the media morons SQUIRM their way around avoiding that fight.

Since losing to Prescott, Khan had one easy fight followed by Barrera and Kotelnik. Who exactly is he avoiding? And wouldn't you think that is a suitably ambitious timetable.

Kotelnik is a good fight for Khan.

However he is not going to defend v Maidana. Do you hink he will keep the title and defend vs such a puncher?

Sky and Warren want to risk their PPV ripoff, matching poss glass jaw champ v huge puncher?

[Autobarn]

I have seen people say that Jaime Moore would beat Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez, even though he has an even less impressive resume than Ortiz does, so it goes both ways.

Fantastic point. With results like the Ortiz one, you get some Brits on the board babbling on about how Ortiz was overrated etc. Well, just last month I had a hard time trying to convince people on this board that Jamie Moore has no chance against Paul Williams. People were talking up Locketts chances against Pavlik on this board too, which I also had to comment on and set people straight on.

And what on earth does that prove? Moore hasn't been given an opportunity yet at world level, despite some excellent wins: Macklin, Piccirillo, Lujan. A Frank W fighter, for instance, could beat the whipping boys belonging to Macklin, Piccirillo and Lujan. And get a title shot, and get completely battered, os he doesn't have the skills. Moore is showing skills, particularly in the past 3 fights.

Ironically, Moore's weight - 154 - has been filled with limited American hype jobs who have, or were soon to be, "found out."

[lirva]

I have seen people say that Jaime Moore would beat Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez, even though he has an even less impressive resume than Ortiz does, so it goes both ways.

Fantastic point. With results like the Ortiz one, you get some Brits on the board babbling on about how Ortiz was overrated etc. Well, just last month I had a hard time trying to convince people on this board that Jamie Moore has no chance against Paul Williams. People were talking up Locketts chances against Pavlik on this board too, which I also had to comment on and set people straight on.

And what on earth does that prove? Moore hasn't been given an opportunity yet at world level, despite some excellent wins: Macklin, Piccirillo, Lujan. A Frank W fighter, for instance, could beat the whipping boys belonging to Macklin, Piccirillo and Lujan. And get a title shot, and get completely battered, os he doesn't have the skills. Moore is showing skills, particularly in the past 3 fights.

Ironically, Moore's weight - 154 - has been filled with limited American hype jobs who have, or were soon to be, "found out."

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. On one hand they revel in the "overhyping" of Ortiz, then on the other hand they proclaim that Moore would beat Williams. Moore would get treated like an absolute MUG by Williams. No contest.

[DavidPayne]

I'm going to try and take a new perspective onthese types of result, here goes.

I think Ortiz can come again, he's young and can learn from this, we should admire his willingness to fight tough opponents and risk a defeat, no shame in losing in a tough fight.

The '0' isn't everything.

[DavidPayne]

How did I do?

[jBacca]

How did I do?

I liked it.

Personally i think Ortiz can come again. Despite losing, he looked the better man for most of the 6 rounds, and kind of undone himself with getting in a war, but he's young and things like that have to be knocked into him.

I don't think his chin is as bad as being made out, he got dropped in the first but got hit with quite a few hard digs after that, which he managed to shake off.

I think he's a better prospect from Khan, who also got ktfo young.

[lirva]

How did I do?

I liked it.

Personally i think Ortiz can come again. Despite losing, he looked the better man for most of the 6 rounds, and kind of undone himself with getting in a war, but he's young and things like that have to be knocked into him.

I don't think his chin is as bad as being made out, he got dropped in the first but got hit with quite a few hard digs after that, which he managed to shake off.

I think he's a better prospect from Khan, who also got ktfo young.

His chin is OK, but he QUIT in the fight which will do severe mental damage. He basically said he would quit if it happen again too. Khan has the championship heart to keep going regardless and he was KO'd rather than quiting like Ortiz. Even Cotto got up and was ready to fight on against Margarito. Ortiz lacks heart and this loss will be very difficult to come back from IMO. Fans know he's a quitter now. As Mayweather would say, he's a front runner.

[Eraserhead]

The fight itself makes me believe Ortiz can come again and be a world-class fighter.

It was the finish and the shocking interview that now makes me convinced he's effectively finished, even at 22 years of age.

Ortiz reminds me of a cross between Panchito Bojado and Hector Camacho Junior.

[Autobarn]

I have seen people say that Jaime Moore would beat Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez, even though he has an even less impressive resume than Ortiz does, so it goes both ways.

Fantastic point. With results like the Ortiz one, you get some Brits on the board babbling on about how Ortiz was overrated etc. Well, just last month I had a hard time trying to convince people on this board that Jamie Moore has no chance against Paul Williams. People were talking up Locketts chances against Pavlik on this board too, which I also had to comment on and set people straight on.

And what on earth does that prove? Moore hasn't been given an opportunity yet at world level, despite some excellent wins: Macklin, Piccirillo, Lujan. A Frank W fighter, for instance, could beat the whipping boys belonging to Macklin, Piccirillo and Lujan. And get a title shot, and get completely battered, os he doesn't have the skills. Moore is showing skills, particularly in the past 3 fights.

Ironically, Moore's weight - 154 - has been filled with limited American hype jobs who have, or were soon to be, "found out."

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. On one hand they revel in the "overhyping" of Ortiz, then on the other hand they proclaim that Moore would beat Williams. Moore would get treated like an absolute MUG by Williams. No contest.

opinion passed off as fact - therefore a flawed argument.

moore is seemingly on the verge of a title shot. just as froch was. froch delivered. moore could well do. if moore beats someone like martinez, things will look good. jamie seems to have the mental and physical attributes to get there. he's a mature world class contender, whereas ortiz was a rushed 22 yo victim of hype job.

it sounds like the usual nonsense: i..e europeans and euro class; yanks are world class.

williams is a nightmare opponent. but there is so much bollocks going round about him. you know, THE BEST FIGHTER at 3 different weight classes. he's good, he's difficult, but he is stick thin & body shots could wreck him.

i notice you pick the absolute hardest fight for moore, in order to judge him, by the way. anyway, let's see how williams fares vs the skilled dzinziruk.

[lirva]

Autobarn mate no offence but are you a retard?

You don't seem to understand my original point. I'm not sure what problem you have with what I have written, unless you actually think Moore can beat Williams.

Are you actually telling me that you think Moore can beat Williams? Or are you just skirting around the issue? I'm not too sure what to make of your posts because it's hard to believe any boxing fan with a moderate IQ could have Moore beating Williams.

I don't expect you to answer the question asked, because you don't seem to have the ability to do so.