Ortiz-Maidana **SPOILER**

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:20

That's the problem on forums. Some smart arse wants to EXPOSE DOUBLE STANDARDS, POINT OUT THE HYPOCRIIITTTTEEEEE!

The double standard may exist in your own noggin. Not knowing the difference between inner and outer - a sign of psychosis. I would know.

I believe Moore is capable of winning a world title and if he does, I don't think beating Williams is impossible. Very difficult, of course. I don't think he could go straight from beating Dzuman to Williams. But, say, if he beats a Martinez, then Williams isn't such a massive step up.

Ortiz was a massive hype, with GBP, Ring mag, HBO all licking his arse. They were choosing their super legend before he'd done anything and I think this is so funny when it goes wrong (so long as the kid - now a goat - doesn't get any kind of bad life threatening injury.)

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:26

I think Williams would soundly outbox Moore but Moore would walk through Martinez, Martinez gets some sort of legendary reputation on this forum just because he defeated the mighty Richard Williams.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:28

And because he's avoided. Avoided fighters = Current Scene nut hugging all round.

I don't think there's a Welter or Light Middleweight at the moment that could beat Williams.

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:33

OK, well you are an excellent example of what I am talking about.

You make the following points.
1. Ortiz was a hypejob by the american etc.
2. Jamie Moore can beat Paul Williams (this is overhyping Moore, who is British)

So you criticise the americans for hyping a fighter but in the same breath say that a man who went life and death with MACKLIN can beat Paul Williams. The Macklin win was good... AT BRITISH LEVEL. Moore has been STOPPED by OSSIE DURAN (LOL) and Scott Dixon (

) and yet you think he can beat PAUL WILLIAMS, who has just beaten Winky.

Believe me, Moore would get the hiding of his life and get stopped within 5 rounds by Williams imo. He is good at british and european level but I'm not sure you have ever watched a Paul Williams fight. Williams could beat Pavlik imo and the only fighter from 147-160 who can beat him is Floyd as far as I'm concerned.

Thinking about it, it's SHOCKING for anyone to say Moore can beat Williams. This is what I don't like about this forum.. the overhyping of brits. We had it with Lockett against Pavlik and now this Moore garbage is the latest. I just hope Moore gets a chance to fight Williams because he'll take a solid pasting and it might be a reality check for some on the forum.

Dioufy · Post by **Dioufy** » 29 Jun 2009, 07:38

Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.

sweetscience · Post by **sweetscience** » 29 Jun 2009, 08:08

im a big Mooresy fan but i think Williams is a step to far

i dont think anyone around his weight catorgy(s) could beat him including PBF

lefthook82 · Post by **lefthook82** » 29 Jun 2009, 08:31

Moore brings 'sub zero' benefit for Williams at the moment. I wouldn't be that surprised if Williams had never heard of him

In any case I think Williams will win comfortably but his defence both 'blows' and 'sucks' so you never know

As for Martinez, I think thats a good competive fight. I'd favour Martinez but will leave the bookie alone with that one

I think if I saw Moore in with someone who is remotely world class now( as opposed to past with piccirilo) and see him doing a number on them I might further rate his chances against teh aforemntioned two. I like his compact style, his use of the southpaw stance, his conssitent body punching but when its all said and done.....

Who has he fought?

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 09:38

Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.

Moore was stopped by body shots. Of course he's going to come out with excuses.. And as for your last point, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Personally I think its a preposterous thing to say but time will tell.

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 09:39

One good thing I can say about Moore, is that at least he's not going for WBU belts and the like. Fair play to him for doing things properly.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jun 2009, 09:52

lirva wrote:OK, well you are an excellent example of what I am talking about.

You make the following points.
1. Ortiz was a hypejob by the american etc.
2. Jamie Moore can beat Paul Williams (this is overhyping Moore, who is British)

So you criticise the americans for hyping a fighter but in the same breath say that a man who went life and death with MACKLIN can beat Paul Williams. The Macklin win was good... AT BRITISH LEVEL. Moore has been STOPPED by OSSIE DURAN (LOL) and Scott Dixon ( ) and yet you think he can beat PAUL WILLIAMS, who has just beaten Winky.

Believe me, Moore would get the hiding of his life and get stopped within 5 rounds by Williams imo. He is good at british and european level but I'm not sure you have ever watched a Paul Williams fight. Williams could beat Pavlik imo and the only fighter from 147-160 who can beat him is Floyd as far as I'm concerned.

Thinking about it, it's SHOCKING for anyone to say Moore can beat Williams. This is what I don't like about this forum.. the overhyping of brits. We had it with Lockett against Pavlik and now this Moore garbage is the latest. I just hope Moore gets a chance to fight Williams because he'll take a solid pasting and it might be a reality check for some on the forum.

vic ortiz was selected by a fvcking committe to be a modern day superstar, legend, pop star, movie star - probably with a commentating career and a golden pension plan (LOL). that was before he was thrown in the deep dark waters, had many to doubt his heart, and knock him way back down the fvcking ladder.

jamie moore is a hardened pro. he had losses, learned and has become a heck of a fighter knocking on the door of world class. Macklin (LOL) just destroyed Elcock, a guy that the very good Arthur Abraham laboured against.

Pattycake Paul over Jamie Moore? And I suppose Froch would lose to Taylor, and Haye would lose to Mormeck.

i get it now - lirva - larvae - obscene grey growths in warm pink places (and wet red holes) - you are the word virus (made flesh) - gibbet jabber, automatic blather - poetry from a pint glass - fish and chops to take out - the WRITING ON THE (news)PAPER.stay off my headcheese i KNEW there was SOMEONE IN THE HOUSE -THAT TIME

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:00

Better now? he asks me

Better I say, looking him up and down. Better than what?

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:00

Terry D wrote:
Autobarn wrote:i get it now - lirva - larvae - obscene grey growths in warm pink places (and wet red holes) - you are the word virus (made flesh) - gibbet jabber, automatic blather - poetry from a pint glass - fish and chops to take out - the WRITING ON THE PAPER. stay off my headcheese i KNEW there was SOMEONE IN THE HOUSE -THAT TIME
Still enjoying the David Peace books mate, that was very 1977!

lol. and there was me thinking the spirit of Dooley had invaded the usually prosaic 'barn for the afternoon.......

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:02

Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.

ha ha no way.

moore is a southpaw and that's where the comparisons with quintana end.

moore is decent.

but it's a long way from the level he's been fighting to the best fighters at 154.

one thing i will accept is that 154 isn't up to much right now.

so moore has a better chance now than he would of back in say 2000. :>

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:04

Terry D wrote:
Autobarn wrote:i get it now - lirva - larvae - obscene grey growths in warm pink places (and wet red holes) - you are the word virus (made flesh) - gibbet jabber, automatic blather - poetry from a pint glass - fish and chops to take out - the WRITING ON THE PAPER. stay off my headcheese i KNEW there was SOMEONE IN THE HOUSE -THAT TIME
Still enjoying the David Peace books mate, that was very 1977!

the wet red holes gave it away

will have to work on my "yorkshire noir".

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jun 2009, 10:18

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.
ha ha no way.

moore is a southpaw and that's where the comparisons with quintana end.

moore is decent.

but it's a long way from the level he's been fighting to the best fighters at 154.

one thing i will accept is that 154 isn't up to much right now.

so moore has a better chance now than he would of back in say 2000. :>

ask pattycake paul to turn up at the playground. moore will drag him into deep waters. hot water, too.

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 11:54

Autobarn wrote:
lirva wrote:OK, well you are an excellent example of what I am talking about.

You make the following points.
1. Ortiz was a hypejob by the american etc.
2. Jamie Moore can beat Paul Williams (this is overhyping Moore, who is British)

So you criticise the americans for hyping a fighter but in the same breath say that a man who went life and death with MACKLIN can beat Paul Williams. The Macklin win was good... AT BRITISH LEVEL. Moore has been STOPPED by OSSIE DURAN (LOL) and Scott Dixon ( ) and yet you think he can beat PAUL WILLIAMS, who has just beaten Winky.

Believe me, Moore would get the hiding of his life and get stopped within 5 rounds by Williams imo. He is good at british and european level but I'm not sure you have ever watched a Paul Williams fight. Williams could beat Pavlik imo and the only fighter from 147-160 who can beat him is Floyd as far as I'm concerned.

Thinking about it, it's SHOCKING for anyone to say Moore can beat Williams. This is what I don't like about this forum.. the overhyping of brits. We had it with Lockett against Pavlik and now this Moore garbage is the latest. I just hope Moore gets a chance to fight Williams because he'll take a solid pasting and it might be a reality check for some on the forum.
vic ortiz was selected by a fvcking committe to be a modern day superstar, legend, pop star, movie star - probably with a commentating career and a golden pension plan (LOL). that was before he was thrown in the deep dark waters, had many to doubt his heart, and knock him way back down the fvcking ladder.

jamie moore is a hardened pro. he had losses, learned and has become a heck of a fighter knocking on the door of world class. Macklin (LOL) just destroyed Elcock, a guy that the very good Arthur Abraham laboured against.

Pattycake Paul over Jamie Moore? And I suppose Froch would lose to Taylor, and Haye would lose to Mormeck.

i get it now - lirva - larvae - obscene grey growths in warm pink places (and wet red holes) - you are the word virus (made flesh) - gibbet jabber, automatic blather - poetry from a pint glass - fish and chops to take out - the WRITING ON THE (news)PAPER.stay off my headcheese i KNEW there was SOMEONE IN THE HOUSE -THAT TIME

I backed Froch and haye and think Witter may well do a job on Alexander. I think froch can beat kessler, I think Kell Brook might be world class, I think Tyson Fury might be able to go all the way and give him a good chance.

Macklin was outboxed by facey and LAWRENCE MURPHY destroyed Elcocks a few years back. Elcocks always had a poor chin. Abraham always starts slow too. Macklin would get treated like a MUG by Abraham mate.

Fact is, you are on this board standing by your comment that Jamie Moore can beat Paul Williams.

That is enough to end the argument mate.

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 11:55

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.
ha ha no way.

moore is a southpaw and that's where the comparisons with quintana end.

moore is decent.

but it's a long way from the level he's been fighting to the best fighters at 154.

one thing i will accept is that 154 isn't up to much right now.

so moore has a better chance now than he would of back in say 2000. :>

Agreed. Moore is the most overrated fighter on this board. maybe it's because he posts here. I have no problem saying he would get DONE by Williams. Quintana would do him too.

Dioufy · Post by **Dioufy** » 29 Jun 2009, 12:07

lirva wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.
Moore was stopped by body shots. Of course he's going to come out with excuses.. And as for your last point, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Personally I think its a preposterous thing to say but time will tell.

Yes, Moore is overrated on here. I don't disagree with that.

But come on, I bet you would've said it was preposterous that Quintana COULD beat Williams.

Williams would be massive favourite, but Moore could beat him I think.

And I believe Moore could beat Quintana.

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 12:12

Dioufy wrote:
lirva wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.
Moore was stopped by body shots. Of course he's going to come out with excuses.. And as for your last point, I guess we'll agree to disagree. Personally I think its a preposterous thing to say but time will tell.
Yes, Moore is overrated on here. I don't disagree with that.

But come on, I bet you would've said it was preposterous that Quintana COULD beat Williams.

Williams would be massive favourite, but Moore could beat him I think.

And I believe Moore could beat Quintana.

I just don't think Moore has the skills. How exactly is he going to beat him? Rough him up? Williams throws over 1,000 HARD punches per fight. Moore will find himself getting way outworked and being hit harder than he has ever been hit. Williams can take his punches too. Comparisons with Quintana are not really that good imo because I think Quintana is way more mobile than Moore.

In fairness Quintana DID outbox Williams first time around, but got blasted the second time and I'd expect him to get blasted a third time if it came off. Williams can probably be outboxed by a really good mover (Floyd) but it wouldn't be easy, even for Floyd.

There are just several leagues between Moore and Williams.

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 12:14

In addition, I don't think Moore would beat Quintana either.

Moore is limited and that will be exposed when he steps up in class. Quintana has power himself and is a better boxer than Moore. Speed and movement would win him the fight imo. I'd have big money on him if the odds were generous.

charlieb · Post by **charlieb** » 29 Jun 2009, 12:54

Can't say I've read an awful lot about Ortiz on the current scene, but I have followed his career and I've never had the kind of conviction about his impending greatness that I'm hearing about in this thread.

To me, he's always seemed like a very good fighter, an improving fighter. Matched hard and coming on in leaps as a result. That said, it's not as though this was the first fight where Ortiz had to face hardship, he's been put over before and he's been in a couple of fights where he certainly didn't have it all his own way.

At his age, he can come again. The talk about him being finished is way too harsh. If he'd have let Maidana knock him out 'properly', maybe unconscious for a minute or two... that might have shortened it.

gobbles · Post by **gobbles** » 29 Jun 2009, 13:11

Autobarn wrote:
hitman_hatton1 wrote:
Dioufy wrote:Being stopped by a fighter and losing a fight on an injury are two different things, Lirva.

And if Quintana can beat Williams, so can Moore.
ha ha no way.

moore is a southpaw and that's where the comparisons with quintana end.

moore is decent.

but it's a long way from the level he's been fighting to the best fighters at 154.

one thing i will accept is that 154 isn't up to much right now.

so moore has a better chance now than he would of back in say 2000. :>
ask pattycake paul to turn up at the playground. moore will drag him into deep waters. hot water, too.

Williams-Moore would be a frightening fight for Jamie. I'd love to see him win a world title, but I don't see how the styles match up well for him in that. He eats an awful lot of punches.

alexpaterson · Post by **alexpaterson** » 29 Jun 2009, 13:13

Who you got for Khan vs Maidana if it happens or Kotelnik vs Maidana 2 I think Maidana would KO Khan early and Kotelnik would outbox Maidana and win a close but clear UD

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 29 Jun 2009, 13:31

lirva wrote:In addition, I don't think Moore would beat Quintana either.

Moore is limited and that will be exposed when he steps up in class. Quintana has power himself and is a better boxer than Moore. Speed and movement would win him the fight imo. I'd have big money on him if the odds were generous.

yawn

lirva · Post by **lirva** » 29 Jun 2009, 13:32

alexpaterson wrote:Who you got for Khan vs Maidana if it happens or Kotelnik vs Maidana 2 I think Maidana would KO Khan early and Kotelnik would outbox Maidana and win a close but clear UD

Well the ortiz result makes kotelniks win look a bit better alright. kotelnik is solid and the more I think about it, the more I think Khan is biting off a bit more than he can chew. Kotelnik pushed Witter all the way, beat Maidana who beat Ortiz and has a solid record. He's no mug. If Khan can beat him (if the fight is still on?), you have to give Khan tons of credit.

Maidana would dispose of Khan early imo. Also, I would fancy Kotelnik to outbox him again.

Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER

Re: Ortiz-Maidana SPOILER