Rendall Munroe V Toshiaki Nishioka

[lirva]

So based on your logic Andy morris is a better fighter than Munroe. right?

Poor analogy.

Morris won a CLOSE UD in which a lot of the fight was evenly fought. Munroe wasn't banged out in 60 seconds and almost killed in the ring.

Dunne has shown he is very fragile and prone to solid pressure fighters. Khan has shown his chin is awful. Both fighters met their stylistic nightmare and got utterly destroyed. Munroe lost a close fight and with correct improvement (he wouldn't need much) he could turn the tables. Both Dunne and Khan would need massive improvements to beat their conquerers. I think Khan would be most likely to beat his than Dunne would, however I would still say that in a HEAD TO HEAD fight, both Prescott and Kiko are better respectively, in that they would win again.

[world ranked]

So based on your logic Andy morris is a better fighter than Munroe. right?

Poor analogy.

Morris won a CLOSE UD in which a lot of the fight was evenly fought. Munroe wasn't banged out in 60 seconds and almost killed in the ring.

Dunne has shown he is very fragile and prone to solid pressure fighters. Khan has shown his chin is awful. Both fighters met their stylistic nightmare and got utterly destroyed. Munroe lost a close fight and with correct improvement (he wouldn't need much) he could turn the tables. Both Dunne and Khan would need massive improvements to beat their conquerers. I think Khan would be most likely to beat his than Dunne would, however I would still say that in a HEAD TO HEAD fight, both Prescott and Kiko are better respectively, in that they would win again.

Mike Tyson was knock out by Danny Williams late in his career doesn't mean Williams was better than him. He
was just better than Tyson on that night just like Morris was against Munroe or Martinez was against Dunne.
A loss no matter how doesn't mean the fighter will always be better just they were better that night.

[lirva]

So based on your logic Andy morris is a better fighter than Munroe. right?

Poor analogy.

Morris won a CLOSE UD in which a lot of the fight was evenly fought. Munroe wasn't banged out in 60 seconds and almost killed in the ring.

Dunne has shown he is very fragile and prone to solid pressure fighters. Khan has shown his chin is awful. Both fighters met their stylistic nightmare and got utterly destroyed. Munroe lost a close fight and with correct improvement (he wouldn't need much) he could turn the tables. Both Dunne and Khan would need massive improvements to beat their conquerers. I think Khan would be most likely to beat his than Dunne would, however I would still say that in a HEAD TO HEAD fight, both Prescott and Kiko are better respectively, in that they would win again.

Mike Tyson was knock out by Danny Williams late in his career doesn't mean Williams was better than him. He
was just better than Tyson on that night just like Morris was against Munroe or Martinez was against Dunne.
A loss no matter how doesn't mean the fighter will always be better just they were better that night.

Another bad analogy. Williams WAS better than that version of Tyson and would have beaten him again in a rematch. You don't understand my point. If Dunne beat ponce de leon in his next fight, I would concede that he could beat Kiko, I just don't believe Dunne can handle that type of pressure fighter and until he shows me he can, I will lean towards Kiko heavily in a head to head.

Khan will have to show an improved defence, improved skill and ring intelligence for me to think he could overturn the Prescott defeat. With Roach and the wildcard, he is giving himself every chance and I can see him really developing as he has time to improve. Dunne on the other hand, isn't going to get any better at his age imo.

[Badass]

Lirva, of course Dunne has the skills to beat Martinez! Are you telling me that just because Dunne was ko'd in a round by Kiko that this means Dunne would not be able to beat Kiko in a rematch, even though Dunne is stronger now, has a better defense, and no longer has the cocky attitude that contributed to his loss? Dunne has always had the skills to beat pressure fighters, just because he did not show this on the night against Kiko does not mean that he never can!

If your theory is correct then Andy Morris is indeed a better fighter than Munroe. If you believe that Dunne got ko'd by Kiko, because Dunne hasn't got the skills to beat Kiko, then you must believe that Munroe losing on points to Morris means that he did not have the skills to beat Morris!

Are you also trying to tell me that even though Dunne went on to beat a world class fighter and is now a world champion, that Kiko is still a better fighter because of his win over Dunne?!

[lirva]

Lirva, of course Dunne has the skills to beat Martinez!

Disagree.

Are you telling me that just because Dunne was ko'd in a round by Kiko that this means Dunne would not be able to beat Kiko in a rematch, even though Dunne is stronger now, has a better defense, and no longer has the cocky attitude that contributed to his loss?

Stronger? Better defense? No more cocky attitude? I think you are wrong on all three counts. Dunne isn't getting any better at his age, his defence didn't look any different to me against Cordoba, where he was lucky to survive a round and hurt a good few times, and he won't just change from being as cocky as he was overnight. In fact winning a "world title" will add to that.

Dunne has always had the skills to beat pressure fighters, just because he did not show this on the night against Kiko does not mean that he never can!

Which pressure fighters did he beat? He never faced a fighter like Kiko, with the agression and power that Kiko has. He folded like a deck of cards. No coincidence. I'd expect Ponce De Leon to walk through Dunne.

If your theory is correct then Andy Morris is indeed a better fighter than Munroe. If you believe that Dunne got ko'd by Kiko, because Dunne hasn't got the skills to beat Kiko, then you must believe that Munroe losing on points to Morris means that he did not have the skills to beat Morris!

Again you show a lack of intelligence here. Equating a close UD loss to a one round demolition is really REALLY stupid. Read my posts again. You don't seem to be able to comprehend my points.

Are you also trying to tell me that even though Dunne went on to beat a world class fighter and is now a world champion, that Kiko is still a better fighter because of his win over Dunne?!

I am telling you that Dunne would lose to Kiko in a rematch while you seem to be telling me that Dunne should be 1/100 on if they ever fought again, which is a bit retarded since, as I said, Kiko was the best pressure fighter Dunne fought and he stood him on his head IN DUBLIN.

Finally, essentially, what we are arguing here whether Dunne would beat Kiko in a rematch or not. Your argument is that Dunne has the skill to beat Kiko whereas I do not think Dunne has the ability to beat Kiko. I have been proved right once, you have been proved wrong once (when Kiko did Dunne in a round). So you have very little evidence to support your claims, especially since Dunne has never beaten a pressure fighter like Kiko. I hope you understand what I am saying here. If Dunne had a win over a pressure fighter LIKE Kiko, you would have a case but as things stand you don't.

I hope you understand but I think your bias for Dunne is clouding your judgment. It's quite simple, what I am trying to explain here.

[Badass]

Lirva, of course Dunne has the skills to beat Martinez!

Disagree.

Are you telling me that just because Dunne was ko'd in a round by Kiko that this means Dunne would not be able to beat Kiko in a rematch, even though Dunne is stronger now, has a better defense, and no longer has the cocky attitude that contributed to his loss?

Stronger? Better defense? No more cocky attitude? I think you are wrong on all three counts. Dunne isn't getting any better at his age, his defence didn't look any different to me against Cordoba, where he was lucky to survive a round and hurt a good few times, and he won't just change from being as cocky as he was overnight. In fact winning a "world title" will add to that.

Dunne has always had the skills to beat pressure fighters, just because he did not show this on the night against Kiko does not mean that he never can!

Which pressure fighters did he beat? He never faced a fighter like Kiko, with the agression and power that Kiko has. He folded like a deck of cards. No coincidence. I'd expect Ponce De Leon to walk through Dunne.

If your theory is correct then Andy Morris is indeed a better fighter than Munroe. If you believe that Dunne got ko'd by Kiko, because Dunne hasn't got the skills to beat Kiko, then you must believe that Munroe losing on points to Morris means that he did not have the skills to beat Morris!

Again you show a lack of intelligence here. Equating a close UD loss to a one round demolition is really REALLY stupid. Read my posts again. You don't seem to be able to comprehend my points.

Are you also trying to tell me that even though Dunne went on to beat a world class fighter and is now a world champion, that Kiko is still a better fighter because of his win over Dunne?!

I am telling you that Dunne would lose to Kiko in a rematch while you seem to be telling me that Dunne should be 1/100 on if they ever fought again, which is a bit retarded since, as I said, Kiko was the best pressure fighter Dunne fought and he stood him on his head IN DUBLIN.

Finally, essentially, what we are arguing here whether Dunne would beat Kiko in a rematch or not. Your argument is that Dunne has the skill to beat Kiko whereas I do not think Dunne has the ability to beat Kiko. I have been proved right once, you have been proved wrong once (when Kiko did Dunne in a round). So you have very little evidence to support your claims, especially since Dunne has never beaten a pressure fighter like Kiko. I hope you understand what I am saying here. If Dunne had a win over a pressure fighter LIKE Kiko, you would have a case but as things stand you don't.

I hope you understand but I think your bias for Dunne is clouding your judgment. It's quite simple, what I am trying to explain here.

With all due respect Lirva (which would be none), you really have no clue about boxing if you believe that a points loss is any better than a round 1 ko when it comes to determining a fighters skills.

Your dislike for Dunne is clouding your judgement if you cannot see that Dunne's defense has improved immensely, from fighting with his hands down around his balls against Martinez, to fighting with a good guard against Cordoba. Like I said before, Dunne only got hit with those shots in the 5th round when he was cut and had blurred vision.

Dunne is a lot stronger now than he was in the Martinez fight, he has improved his strenght, stamina, and punching power, this is not debatable, this is a proven fact. Watch Dunne V Cordoba, compare it to Dunne V Pickering, and you will see a marked improvement in theses areas.

Dunne has definately got over his complacent, cocky attitude. He does not take any fight for granted now.

You are telling me that Kiko would beat Dunne in a rematch, I am telling you that Dunne handled Faccio who was a pressure fighter with a big punch who fought at a higher level to Martinez and this proves that he handles pressure fighters just fine. Martinez would not get near him in a rematch as Dunne is way to skilled and has learned way to much to allow history to repeat itself.

[Dioufy]

I really like Munroe, but I feels he's reached his peak now. He may well get knocked out when he steps up. I even think Dunne could KO him.

[alexpaterson]

Would be a great fight for Munroe get him right up there for a title shot i think he could win it

[Autobarn]

Let's get back to the matter at hand. This thread has sadly gone out of control. Munroe v Nishioka, FFS. Munroe goes kamikaze in Tokyo? Japanese fighter takes his world title to a British sports hall?

[Badass]

Just as a matter of interest for those who think Munroe is world class. What about him screams out world class? I don't dislike Munroe or anything but the guy is way overrated.

Before anyone starts accusing me of overrating Dunne, he was an excellent amateur and showed world class potential from day 1.

Is Munroe being seen as world class cos he beat the man who beat the man?

I think Hunter was a much better boxer than Munroe and when he went in with Molitor (who was thought of as one of the easier guys to beat at 122), he was shown up as just a good domestic/european boxer.
What does Munroe have that Hunter didn't, and how is he going to deal with the jump from looking not that impressive against Fabrizzio Trotta and Isaac Nettey, to fighting one hard Japanese bastard?

[lirva]

[quote="Badass]With all due respect Lirva (which would be none), you really have no clue about boxing if you believe that a points loss is any better than a round 1 ko when it comes to determining a fighters skills.

Your dislike for Dunne is clouding your judgement if you cannot see that Dunne's defense has improved immensely, from fighting with his hands down around his balls against Martinez, to fighting with a good guard against Cordoba. Like I said before, Dunne only got hit with those shots in the 5th round when he was cut and had blurred vision.

Dunne is a lot stronger now than he was in the Martinez fight, he has improved his strenght, stamina, and punching power, this is not debatable, this is a proven fact. Watch Dunne V Cordoba, compare it to Dunne V Pickering, and you will see a marked improvement in theses areas.

Dunne has definately got over his complacent, cocky attitude. He does not take any fight for granted now.

You are telling me that Kiko would beat Dunne in a rematch, I am telling you that Dunne handled Faccio who was a pressure fighter with a big punch who fought at a higher level to Martinez and this proves that he handles pressure fighters just fine. Martinez would not get near him in a rematch as Dunne is way to skilled and has learned way to much to allow history to repeat itself.[/quote]

Faccio

And Dunne was actually on his bicycle bigtime and lucky to have that fight stopped imo. I know because I had money on him and was watching it and could see that my money was in jeopardy at one stage when Dunne got hurt and got on his bicycle. Hardly a good example considering Faccio was much lighter and Dunne had no effect on him. He is nowhere near Kiko imo. Been KOd twice at the lower weight. Come on, you can do better than that Badass... actually you can't because there is nothing there on Dunnes record.

Dunne hasn't improved much if you ask me. Cordoba was just massively overrated. I had a small wager on Dunne by KO at 14/1 because I saw videos of Cordoba on youtube... winging with his punches and also getting knocked flat on his face by what didn't look like a big punch. Cordoba is obviously then largely overrated by the Dunne supporters, who only ever saw him in that Dunne fight.

Time will tell of course. I think you're one of those blow-in supporters of a figher that we get on this board from time to time. You've joined recently and clearly have a pro-irish agenda, in particular a pro-dunne one, even picking him over Vasquez ( ). We had your likes with Lockett against Pavlik and so on. I ran them off the forum of course and I presume when Dunne gets DONE by a nobody you won't be anywhere to be seen.

Just remember, Lirva will be on boxrec waiting for you that night.

[knowitall]

[

You're a bit of a dick aren't you? I remember getting the same "blow in" crap from idiots like you on this forum.
Badass is no different than any poster on here, but it seems that no one can air there views without some bitter old dude like yourself having digs at them.

You have an anti-Dunne agenda, and I think I have figured out who you are! Post on any other forums do we Lirva?!

I see you are quite willing to give Rendall Munroe full credit for beating a guy like Kiko Martinez but you sh*t all over Dunne's win over a world class fighter. It is you who has lost credibility with your obvious bias and your ridiculous logic.

Oh and by the way, thinking Dunne would beat Vasquez is no more far fetched than those who are of the opinion that Haye would beat Klitchsko.

[lirva]

[

You're a bit of a dick aren't you? I remember getting the same "blow in" crap from idiots like you on this forum.
Badass is no different than any poster on here, but it seems that no one can air there views without some bitter old dude like yourself having digs at them.

You have an anti-Dunne agenda, and I think I have figured out who you are! Post on any other forums do we Lirva?!

I see you are quite willing to give Rendall Munroe full credit for beating a guy like Kiko Martinez but you sh*t all over Dunne's win over a world class fighter. It is you who has lost credibility with your obvious bias and your ridiculous logic.

Oh and by the way, thinking Dunne would beat Vasquez is no more far fetched than those who are of the opinion that Haye would beat Klitchsko.

Not going to engage in a pissing contest here. I think Haye beating Wladimir Klitschko is 100x more likely than Dunne beating Vasquez (and I give Haye very little chance against Wladimir). Against Vitali Klitschko, I would say Haye would have a similar chance to Dunne against Vasquez, which is virtually none.

Who would you pick in a Dunne vs Juanma Lopez fight and what round??

[knowitall]

[

You're a bit of a dick aren't you? I remember getting the same "blow in" crap from idiots like you on this forum.
Badass is no different than any poster on here, but it seems that no one can air there views without some bitter old dude like yourself having digs at them.

You have an anti-Dunne agenda, and I think I have figured out who you are! Post on any other forums do we Lirva?!

I see you are quite willing to give Rendall Munroe full credit for beating a guy like Kiko Martinez but you sh*t all over Dunne's win over a world class fighter. It is you who has lost credibility with your obvious bias and your ridiculous logic.

Oh and by the way, thinking Dunne would beat Vasquez is no more far fetched than those who are of the opinion that Haye would beat Klitchsko.

Not going to engage in a pissing contest here. I think Haye beating Wladimir Klitschko is 100x more likely than Dunne beating Vasquez (and I give Haye very little chance against Wladimir). Against Vitali Klitschko, I would say Haye would have a similar chance to Dunne against Vasquez, which is virtually none.

Who would you pick in a Dunne vs Juanma Lopez fight and what round??

Dunne would be ko'd early by Lopez. I do know this, I'm not a f*cking fantasist!

So why do you dislike Dunne so much? I can understand you maybe just not rating him but I don't remember you getting on Steve89's case when he was making unbelievably biased comments about Munroe, how come you didn't call him a "blow in"? Also what's with the "Dunne will be done by a nobody" comment? You sound like you have more of an agenda than me and badass combined!

[lirva]

Dunne would be ko'd early by Lopez. I do know this, I'm not a f*cking fantasist!

So why do you dislike Dunne so much? I can understand you maybe just not rating him but I don't remember you getting on Steve89's case when he was making unbelievably biased comments about Munroe, how come you didn't call him a "blow in"? Also what's with the "Dunne will be done by a nobody" comment? You sound like you have more of an agenda than me and badass combined!

I just don't think Dunnes that good to be honest. Munroe isn't either, but Dunnes even more overrated by his fans imo (picking him against Vasquez, Marquez and Caballero). I don't think Dunne could even beat Gerry Penalosa. Time will tell how good he is of course but I've always held this stance on Dunne and been proved right when Kiko did him. I just think it's preposterous to pick Dunne over those previously mentioned. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I expect Dunne to fight nobodies for a year or two anyway.

[world ranked]

Dunne would be ko'd early by Lopez. I do know this, I'm not a f*cking fantasist!

So why do you dislike Dunne so much? I can understand you maybe just not rating him but I don't remember you getting on Steve89's case when he was making unbelievably biased comments about Munroe, how come you didn't call him a "blow in"? Also what's with the "Dunne will be done by a nobody" comment? You sound like you have more of an agenda than me and badass combined!

I just don't think Dunnes that good to be honest. Munroe isn't either, but Dunnes even more overrated by his fans imo (picking him against Vasquez, Marquez and Caballero). I don't think Dunne could even beat Gerry Penalosa. Time will tell how good he is of course but I've always held this stance on Dunne and been proved right when Kiko did him. I just think it's preposterous to pick Dunne over those previously mentioned. Anyway, we'll see what happens. I expect Dunne to fight nobodies for a year or two anyway.

I haven't seen a post that states Dunne is better than Vasquez, Marquez, Caballero. Does he have a shot yes.
I believe both Dunne and Munroe are world class fighters now are they elite 122 lb no , but both could be considered
top 10 in the world, so to me they are world class. i want too see someone whos a boxing fan that says either one is favorite
to beat Lopez, Vasquez, Caballero. The fans of a boxer (Dunne) and boxing fans(U & me) are two different groups.

[Dioufy]

I am a massive fan of Munroe and have seen plenty of his fights and he isn't world-class. Against Martirosyan I had it level after ten rounds, and he seems pretty crap. He struggled with both Bouaita and Trotta until a couple of injuries happened. And did two excellent jobs over Martinez, who is the Jeff Lacy of the division. I have yet to see any power from Munroe as of yet, and I haven't seen him knocked down. But I have seen him buzzed a little bit - I can't remember if it was Martirosyan or Trotta. Furthermore, I expect him to lose that belt soon enough. Another step up in class and he will probably lose. I don't like saying that but it's my opinion.

I think Dunne stops him too.

[Autobarn]

Dis is not a Borenord Dunne tread

[Dioufy]

It's the nature of the sport, dude. Just look at every Froch thread... Calzaghe is mentioned more than Froch. It's the same with Munroe. It's just a crying shame that the majority of British fights like the two I have mentioned never take place.

[lirva]

I am a massive fan of Munroe and have seen plenty of his fights and he isn't world-class. Against Martirosyan I had it level after ten rounds, and he seems pretty crap. He struggled with both Bouaita and Trotta until a couple of injuries happened. And did two excellent jobs over Martinez, who is the Jeff Lacy of the division. I have yet to see any power from Munroe as of yet, and I haven't seen him knocked down. But I have seen him buzzed a little bit - I can't remember if it was Martirosyan or Trotta. Furthermore, I expect him to lose that belt soon enough. Another step up in class and he will probably lose. I don't like saying that but it's my opinion.

I think Dunne stops him too.

I totally and utterly agree with your assessment of Munroe. Like most Brit fighters on this board... HIGHLY OVERRATED ON THIS BOARD.

However, I think Dunne is also highly overrated and I wouldn't pick him to stop Munroe at all. It would be a close fight imo.

[Dioufy]

It should be Booth next for Munroe. Three excellent belts in comparison to Dunne's dodgy WBA trinket. Cabellero is champion for feck's sake.

[BigEars]

It should be Booth next for Munroe. Three excellent belts in comparison to Dunne's dodgy WBA trinket. Cabellero is champion for feck's sake.

2 excellent belts.........

[Badass]

It should be Booth next for Munroe. Three excellent belts in comparison to Dunne's dodgy WBA trinket. Cabellero is champion for feck's sake.

If Dunne only had to get through Booth and Nettey to win those "excellent belts", that would be great but unfortunately for him, he cannot piss about fighting Africans for Commonwealth titles.

If Munroe goes for Booth it is a backwards step, he is already European champion.

Even if he held the European, Commonwealth and British titles, it still wouldn't come close to what Dunne has achieved winning over Cordoba. It's not the belt you win, it's who you beat to win it that counts.

[lirva]

If Dunne only had to get through Booth and Nettey to win those "excellent belts", that would be great but unfortunately for him, he cannot piss about fighting Africans for Commonwealth titles.

If Munroe goes for Booth it is a backwards step, he is already European champion.

Even if he held the European, Commonwealth and British titles, it still wouldn't come close to what Dunne has achieved winning over Cordoba. It's not the belt you win, it's who you beat to win it that counts.

Well, at least he can say he didn't get embarrassed in front of his friends and family and country when he fought Kiko Martinez. No, he beat him twice.

[Badass]

If Dunne only had to get through Booth and Nettey to win those "excellent belts", that would be great but unfortunately for him, he cannot piss about fighting Africans for Commonwealth titles.

If Munroe goes for Booth it is a backwards step, he is already European champion.

Even if he held the European, Commonwealth and British titles, it still wouldn't come close to what Dunne has achieved winning over Cordoba. It's not the belt you win, it's who you beat to win it that counts.

Well, at least he can say he didn't get embarrassed in front of his friends and family and country when he fought Kiko Martinez. No, he beat him twice.

Yes he can say that, congratulations Rendall! Should I preface every post I make with an aknowledgement that Munroe beat Martinez and Dunne didn't?! Would that make you feel better? There are worse things than being embarrassed, to most people anyway.

Dunne got over that "embarrassment" I would say, and is only interested in moving on with his career.

What's more embarrassing is believing that winning a Commonwealth title against an African farmer is comparable to winning a world title.