Taking punches froma guy who can't hit as hard as a decent lightweight.......
At least there's improvement there now, and potential.
Definately improvement and yes, potential to mix it at world level against hand picked opponents. I feel that any of the elite fighters at light-weight and light-welter would beat khan and anyone who has some decent movement, hand speed and punching power. One of the things that Khan will need and has'nt got at the higher division, is real punching power and to mix with the very best, he will need that and so it's one aspect he will really struggle with, because he can't win every fight in the same fashion as tonight.
Dioufy wrote:Have you seen that punch that KO'ed Rees?
I'm talking about Khan's lack of power at the light-welter division.........Not Kotelnik
Any fighter can knock someone out, but generally, fighter's are either noted for punching power or not and Kotelnik isn't and never has been noted for punching power. Gavin Rees was way out of his depth at world championship level and is more of a domestic fighter that can couple some results together. Plenty of examples of that, ie, Paul "Silky" Jones some years back, a domestic fighter that put together a decent run and won a world title, before coming back down to reality shortly afterwards. As i said, Khan has'nt got any power at light-welter weight and if he steps up to fight the very best, he can't just rely on the tactics that beat Kotelnik tonight, which was essentially to stick, jab and move.
Well, these days, it certainly does'nt mean that because your a world champion, you are the best amd can operate at world level. With each division having five world champions, most are fighters, who before the multiple world championships, would have struggled to make the top ten in previous era's. Maybe world class, come under the term elite and then p4p, but both Kotelnik and Khan are NOT world class !!
crusader wrote:Kotelnik is world class and Khan took him to school. Khan is a world class fighter.
Kotelnik is a good fighter, but he isn't world class and before anyone say's, no, i don't think being a world champion in this era means that you are automatically deemed to be a world class fighter.
If Amir had a chin he could be one of the greatest fighters of all time, as it is he will probably still be great but he will imo be exposed several more times before he is done.
But you can be sure of one thing he will be a superstar as you never ever know what your gona get with him .
crusader wrote:Kotelnik is world class and Khan took him to school. Khan is a world class fighter.
Kotelnik is a good fighter, but he isn't world class and before anyone say's, no, i don't think being a world champion in this era means that you are automatically deemed to be a world class fighter.
i think thats a pretty stupid statement!
Well, jake La Motta was asked how well Oscar De La Hoya would have been in his era of "one" world champion in each division and La Motta stated that he would have been a top eight fighter at most. Now that is LaMotta's opinion, but he was making the simple statement, that a lot of today's "world champions" would'nt have entered the top ten in his day, because there was only one world champion to each division and so the competition to fight the champion would have made the more average fighter's fall before the big prize was in sight. If you don't understand that simple argument, then you really don't have the acumen to pontifcate on my post and say it's a "pretty stupid statement". It's actually a very sensible statement to make and a viewpoint that is widely shared by many people
uk_boxer wrote:i agree with the post above. Khan world champion 3rd best English boxer at that weight
i think we can say the top 3 fighters in england r world class.
Exactly
And what is this crap about Kotelnik not being world class? Are only the top 1-2 guys in each division considered world class? He was easily in the top 10 at 140 pounds title or not.
I think we are bound to get the haters playing this performance down by trying to denegrate Kotelnik but before they do certain things need to be said.
Khan has just completely out-thought, outboxed and outworked a man who took a prime or close to it, Junior Witter the whole route and lost a razor thin decision (albeit fairly).
Witter was being raved about at that time as one of the most dangerous men around the light-welter scene and Kotelnik bloody nigh beat him. His performances since then have also given him rightly a top quality tag, even if not the best at his weight.
Forget the pre fight talk about stopping Kotelnik last night, those in the game knew that was never going to happen and therefore they had to come up with a plan of getting through 12 rounds.
I believe the kid knows (and how could he not) that his chin is not up to the job against a decent puncher and therefore he has to come up with a way to fight the upper echelon fighters without putting that weakness on offer, I thought he did this brilliantly last night.
Kotelnik is a quality operator, some may think he is not, but the records don't indicate that, good wins,coupled with hard luck stories and recently beating Maidana who has gone to the states and beaten there rising star, the man was on the top of his game and Khan has basically dismantled that game last night.
His punch resistance seemed better as well but I am not going to be fooled by that too much, kotelnik would be one of the lighter punchers in the light-welter top tier, although he has some snap, its not devestating.
However, it was still good enough to conceed there was a bit of improvement as Kotelnik certainly punches harder than your Limond's and Gomez and they both decked him but the Ukranian did not.
Now don't get me wrong I am not a nut-hugger or a Khan follower as such but I do believe its about time we got behind him a bit and even if you don't want to do that, acknowledge what he has achieved last night.
This was a world title achieved with, according to many and I would not disagree whole heartedly (no chin) that takes some doing, he has battled back from the Prescott shocker to move himself half way round the world to try and achieve something.
Thats the thing - this was the new Khan we saw tonight, careful (more so anyway), kept a good workrate up for 12 rounds, I know he got tired but he still kept moving, kept to the plan. in an all-time sense Kotelnik isnt world class, these days he is top-tier, if that makes sense.
Bradley is the man after Pacman at 140 (leaving out the variables such as Mosley, who says he can make 140, JMM, etc), after that IMO there is a step down in talent to the Hatton (yes I said it!), Kotelnik, Malignaggi tier.
Well, Khan proved me wrong last night and put in a career best performance. Roach has got Khan listening and learning which has enabled the progress and success which we saw last night.
I think when we look at the big picture Khan's loss to Prescott and the transformation that has followed will see Khan reach his full potential by guarding his weakness and maximising his strength.
I think Khan should now go for a rematch with Prescott in his first defence and I think he would have a genuine chance of avenging the loss. If he kept the Columbian on the outside and picked him off from distance I'm sure he wouild win and put some closure on that shock defeat.
Well done Khan for the cracking effort last night.
jim wright1 wrote:Well, Khan proved me wrong last night and put in a career best performance. Roach has got Khan listening and learning which has enabled the progress and success which we saw last night.
I think when we look at the big picture Khan's loss to Prescott and the transformation that has followed will see Khan reach his full potential by guarding his weakness and maximising his strength.
I think Khan should now go for a rematch with Prescott in his first defence and I think he would have a genuine chance of avenging the loss. If he kept the Columbian on the outside and picked him off from distance I'm sure he wouild win and put some closure on that shock defeat.
Well done Khan for the cracking effort last night.
Prescott doesn't deserve a title shot after losing on Friday.
The point is, to be world class you have to at least be competitive with the best. The fact that styles make fights meant that Khan could beat a specified top 10 guy with a specified style. When you realise that Frankie searched high and low for this particular opponent, we find the problem.
If Khan were to get blown out by Maidana, for instance, that's not competitive. If he can beat Maidana, or at least give him a good fight and run him close, I will readily call Khan world class.
Of course Khan is world class. I hate the pudendum, and everything about Sky's coverage of him like he's the new Ray Leonard, but I'm not blinded to the fact that he is now certainly not far off top 5 at JWW (clearly behind Pac, Hatton, Bradley, and just behind Campbell, Holt, Witter). Being around 7/8 in the world in a division with decent depth makes you world class IMO.
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