Was Lennox Lewis Better Than Mike Tyson

[I Feel Fine]

You people really think way too much of Jimmy Young. Young was coming off a four fight losing streak. Tua knocked out Michael Moorer and John Ruiz in less time than it takes for me to write out this post. He certainly was no great fighter, he was in fact a dud, and I wouldn't even argue that he was better than Tucker, but I take issue with the notion that Tyson beating Tucker somehow is an indicator that Tyson beats Lewis, while Lewis' win over Tua means nothing. Saying that Tucker has Lewis' attributes but that Tua does not have Tyson's is fallacious.
Neither win over Tucker or Tua gives much credibility to the idea that either fighter beats the other.

[Robinson]

IFF

And that is what I said. However wins over both men are an
indication as to how a fight between the two could potentially
go.

Those are the closest matches each man faced to the other.

Yes Young by 1984 was far from being anything other than
a name.

[I Feel Fine]

Well that is not what you said the first time, but I accept your revision.

[Robinson]

I am not here for your acceptance.

[Collins2000]

Let's have a group hug.

[observer1]

Prime v Prime.

IMO, Tyson beats Lewis

[Robinson]

I am always here to hug.

[banjo]

My word, internet boxing is so glamorous isn't it?

Mike Tyson in his prime would have absolutely murdered a prime Lennox Lewis wouldn't he? Just like he destroyed Mitch Green, James Tillis, James Smith and Tony Tucker when he was in his prime..........oh but I forgot that all of those fighters(who actually were nowhere near as good as Lennox Lewis at his worst never mind his best) actually heard the final bell in those fights.

I know what you are all thinking "Lewis got KO'd by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman who weren't really that good" which is true but this is heavyweight boxing where one punch can end a fight no matter how much better than your opponent you are. Don King knew how good Lennox was which is why he kept the titles away from Lewis for nearly 3 years.

I think a Lewis-Tyson prime-for-prime fight would have been a real 50-50 contest which both men could have won.

[dempseyfire]

Well for starters Tua never won a fight that mattered.
Tucker did.

Tucker was a champion and managed to stay relevant
for a good time. Tuaman had a shorter period of 'dominance'.

Lets have a look...

Tony Tucker...
A win over past it name Jimmy Young, helps give him some
cred.
Beats James Broad and Buster Douglas to land him a IBF title
and a shot at Tyson.
Tyson hands him his first loss, a decision.
Beats Orlin Norris and Oliver McCall and slowly makes his come
back.
Starts to slide by the time of the Lewis fight...


David Tua...

Flash KO over Ruiz makes people take note of him.
Stops Izon and Maskaev.
After the Ike loss, he gets a stoppage win over Rahman, he is
back into things.
After the Lewis and Byrd losses his best wins are over a past
it Moorer, a draw against Rahman and a good stoppage over
Oquendo.

Tua fell short every time he needed to step it up, Tucker atleast
won some of the fights he needed to.


Daniel,
You say Tyson fought washed up people all the time...Lewis never did
this ??? And who were the washed up people Tyson always fought ?

DF,
I think Lewis beats Spinks, maybe not in 3. I agree that he got a
gift over Holmes in the rematch.

Robbie come on Tucker's lone notable win pre-Tyson was vs Douglas and no-one thought much of him at the time. That fight 'counts' as much as Tua's victories over Ruiz, Maskaev, Rahman etc. . . paper title on the line or not. Tua definitely has the more impressive overall resume, both flunked big-time in their step-ups to the true championship level.

[My2Sense]

Well for starters Tua never won a fight that mattered.
Tucker did.

What do you define as a fight that "mattered"?

Tucker was a champion and managed to stay relevant
for a good time. Tuaman had a shorter period of 'dominance'.

No he didn't, Tucker disappeared for over 2 years after losing to Tyson, then briefly re-emerged from semi-obscurity in the early '90s to challenge Lennox before fading back into semi-obscurity.

Lets have a look...

Tony Tucker...
A win over past it name Jimmy Young, helps give him some
cred.
Beats James Broad and Buster Douglas to land him a IBF title
and a shot at Tyson.
Tyson hands him his first loss, a decision.
Beats Orlin Norris and Oliver McCall and slowly makes his come
back.
Starts to slide by the time of the Lewis fight...


David Tua...

Flash KO over Ruiz makes people take note of him.
Stops Izon and Maskaev.
After the Ike loss, he gets a stoppage win over Rahman, he is
back into things.
After the Lewis and Byrd losses his best wins are over a past
it Moorer, a draw against Rahman and a good stoppage over
Oquendo.

I don't see how this supports your argument at all. The only distinction Tucker has over Tua is that one of his wins brought him a title, whereas none of Tua's wins happened to have a vacant title on the line at the time. Tua's resume as shown here is at least comparable to Tucker's, if not better.

Tua fell short every time he needed to step it up, Tucker atleast
won some of the fights he needed to.

What were those fights(plural) that Tucker won that Tua failed to?

[Robinson]

Tucker won a title.

[My2Sense]

Robbie come on Tucker's lone notable win pre-Tyson was vs Douglas and no-one thought much of him at the time. That fight 'counts' as much as Tua's victories over Ruiz, Maskaev, Rahman etc. . . paper title on the line or not. Tua definitely has the more impressive overall resume, both flunked big-time in their step-ups to the true championship level.

Exactly. Tucker's record was viewed as being almost exclusively padded with tomatoes before taking what was considered something of a step up vs. Douglas; and his record en route to getting a shot at Lennox was heavily padded as well. Tua faced tougher comp. on the way up and consistently fought legit contenders, rising/unbeaten prospects, and former/future champs for most of his career.

Moreover, Tucker never beat a reigning champion to win what title he had; he won a vacant title that had been stripped from the champion.

[My2Sense]

Tucker won a title.

So did Ruiz. Did that make him better than Tua?

[Robinson]

Well Ruiz still stayed at the top, regardless of losing to Tua.
He did not let the loss stall of falter his career.

[My2Sense]

Well Ruiz still stayed at the top, regardless of losing to Tua.
He did not let the loss stall of falter his career.

Meaning what?

How about the way Tucker let losses stall/falter his career?

[bobcat]

Tyson benefits more then ANYONE from the ``well,it COULD have happened`` syndrome.

i mean sure, if Tyson had kept it together,if Cus hadnt died,if he had steered clear of bad habits,if he hadnt raped a woman and spent time in prison for it,if he had kept his focus on boxing...if he was just stronger,mentally....and he had fought Lewis when he was 25,all of the above being hypothetically true,he probably could well have beaten Lewis.and even then im not sure....but....

so? does anyone do the same for Lewis? or ANYONE for that matter?

everyone wants to establish an absolute mental and physical peak for tyson,which hardly even existed,and then match him up against lewis who was at a stage when he wasnt as good as he would become. i dont get it.

Zab Judah could have been an all time great lww/welter,if he hadnt been so overconfident,gotten bashed by tszyu,generally fought smarter,was mentally stronger,had a better chin,had a more even temperment.

if i made that argument seriously,people would laugh at me and say its ridiculous,because it just isnt how things happened.end of story. so why are people constantly doing it for Tyson?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Moreover, Tucker never beat a reigning champion to win what title he had; he won a vacant title that had been stripped from the champion.

- TNT beat the first fighters to beat Lewis and Tyson before they got to Lewis and Tyson.

Tucker fought Lewis even up when Tony was well past prime and no longer had his brilliant foot movement under him. At very least he had Lewis in dire straights in spite of being a coke addict well past prime in his mid to late 30s. He also gave Tyson the biggest challenge of his 5 yr reign of terror.

Tony one of the most physically gifted heavies ever suffered from a father manager who stole his career earnings and left him at the mercy of King at a bad moment in time. Hundreds of more flies on your disrespect than Tony my friend.

[My2Sense]

- TNT beat the first fighters to beat Lewis and Tyson before they got to Lewis and Tyson.

So did a lot of fighters. There's a reason it was so surprising when Lewis and Tyson were upset by those guys.

Tucker fought Lewis even up when Tony was well past prime and no longer had his brilliant foot movement under him.

No, he lost by a sizable margin to Lewis and was floored twice. And his foot movement was never "brilliant," just decent.


Typically, nothing you've said here addresses anything relevant. Tucker never beat a reigning titleholder, and had an inferior resume to Tua. Those points still stand.

[My2Sense]

Tyson benefits more then ANYONE from the ``well,it COULD have happened`` syndrome.

i mean sure, if Tyson had kept it together,if Cus hadnt died,if he had steered clear of bad habits,if he hadnt raped a woman and spent time in prison for it,if he had kept his focus on boxing...if he was just stronger,mentally....and he had fought Lewis when he was 25,all of the above being hypothetically true,he probably could well have beaten Lewis.and even then im not sure....but....

so? does anyone do the same for Lewis? or ANYONE for that matter?

everyone wants to establish an absolute mental and physical peak for tyson,which hardly even existed,and then match him up against lewis who was at a stage when he wasnt as good as he would become. i dont get it.

Zab Judah could have been an all time great lww/welter,if he hadnt been so overconfident,gotten bashed by tszyu,generally fought smarter,was mentally stronger,had a better chin,had a more even temperment.

if i made that argument seriously,people would laugh at me and say its ridiculous,because it just isnt how things happened.end of story. so why are people constantly doing it for Tyson?

Certain fighters do benefit from an obvious double standard.

It seems that in the cases of some fighters, people make up their minds about what they are very early in their careers, rather than wait and see what comes as their careers unfold (as is the way most other fighters are judged); then if the fighter fails to live up to those expectations, they forever bend over backwards making excuses for them.

The real question is, what is it about those fighters that attracts people to judge them that way rather than the way others are judged. The remains a bit of a mystery.

[Robinson]

In my humble opinion. I think Tucker, at his best was a better fighter
than Tua at his best.

Though Tua in his own right is a talented man.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- TNT beat the first fighters to beat Lewis and Tyson before they got to Lewis and Tyson.

So did a lot of fighters. There's a reason it was so surprising when Lewis and Tyson were upset by those guys.

Tucker fought Lewis even up when Tony was well past prime and no longer had his brilliant foot movement under him.

No, he lost by a sizable margin to Lewis and was floored twice. And his foot movement was never "brilliant," just decent.


Typically, nothing you've said here addresses anything relevant. Tucker never beat a reigning titleholder, and had an inferior resume to Tua. Those points still stand.

- Your lack of relevancy has always been your calling card. Tucker was the only fighter to beat both just prior to them beating Tyson and Lewis was a point of comparison in prime head to head matchups.

Tucker was a King fighter kept on a short leash. Anyone knows King controlled the heavy division and stacked the decks with his judges and refs for decades, deigning whom would fight whom and otherwise dictating and ruining the careers of a vast array of talented heavies.

Tucker was robbed by his own father and then abandoned and became a very mentally fragile fighter. He was widely praised for his footwork and skills against Tyson, and widely praised for the difficulties he gave Lewis in spite of being well beyond his prime years.

Tucker was more naturally athletic and physically gifted than Lewis. Had he the support network of Lewis' very strong mother figure and a Manny Steward guiding his career instead of a crooked father and DKing, Tucker would've been a first ballot HOFer, but then the fight business filled with great talented fighters compromised by their backgrounds and eras. Had Floyd not broke with D'amato's wishes and penciled in Liston, Sonny would've been no more than a what if answer to trivia questions.

Circumstances play a role in everyone's lives and what opportunities are given to them.

[Robinson]

- TNT beat the first fighters to beat Lewis and Tyson before they got to Lewis and Tyson.

So did a lot of fighters. There's a reason it was so surprising when Lewis and Tyson were upset by those guys.

Tucker fought Lewis even up when Tony was well past prime and no longer had his brilliant foot movement under him.

No, he lost by a sizable margin to Lewis and was floored twice. And his foot movement was never "brilliant," just decent.


Typically, nothing you've said here addresses anything relevant. Tucker never beat a reigning titleholder, and had an inferior resume to Tua. Those points still stand.

- Your lack of relevancy has always been your calling card. Tucker was the only fighter to beat both just prior to them beating Tyson and Lewis was a point of comparison in prime head to head matchups.

Tucker was a King fighter kept on a short leash. Anyone knows King controlled the heavy division and stacked the decks with his judges and refs for decades, deigning whom would fight whom and otherwise dictating and ruining the careers of a vast array of talented heavies.

Tucker was robbed by his own father and then abandoned and became a very mentally fragile fighter. He was widely praised for his footwork and skills against Tyson, and widely praised for the difficulties he gave Lewis in spite of being well beyond his prime years.

Tucker was more naturally athletic and physically gifted than Lewis. Had he the support network of Lewis' very strong mother figure and a Manny Steward guiding his career instead of a crooked father and DKing, Tucker would've been a first ballot HOFer, but then the fight business filled with great talented fighters compromised by their backgrounds and eras. Had Floyd not broke with D'amato's wishes and penciled in Liston, Sonny would've been no more than a what if answer to trivia questions.

Circumstances play a role in everyone's lives and what opportunities are given to them.

BRR

One thing you over look re Tucker in the Tyson fight is the supremacy of
Tucker's jheri curl hair do...

[Collins2000]

BRR

One thing you over look re Tucker in the Tyson fight is the supremacy of
Tucker's jheri curl hair do...

That's right.

Instead of BRR labouring over all that mumbo jumbo crap that no one takes seriously, he ought to talk about stuff he really understands like hairstyles, hand-bags and shoes.

It must be frustrating when he makes a 500 word post and the only response he gets is, efffectively, 'you daft pudendum' or, even better, just ignored.

Now if he talked about fashion etc in the same Liberace style he might get some attention.

Come on BRR. Tell us if anal bleaching is gonna be a big thing this summer.

And you might want to change your username to something more catchy. How about Hedda Lettuce?

[BoxBuzz]

Collins why the apparent abrasive edginess? At least he's pondering the sport and giving us his take. What is it you're looking for in a contributor....agreement? Or does everyone need to be a full tilt unabridged error free historian such as myself? (Well Except for that time I thought I was wrong and you corrected me.)

Must everyone have a pulse? Are they required to pass the "foggy mirror test"? Must they Have their boxing discussion license confirmed as up to date and valid?

These questions just sort of came to me in a "stream of consciousness" moment..and I felt compelled to follow up.

[Collins2000]

Collins why the apparent abrasive edginess?

I think it might have something to do with the offensive way BRR has acted in every post he has made.

He disrespects the boxers and he disrespects the fans.

Even poor old Kym who tries to get along with everyone seems to have tired of the daft pudendum's posturing.