What does Haye beating Valuev actually mean, really?

[thepocketrocket]

haye will become a superstar in britain if he wins this.ok valuev isnt great.but still it is rare to see a british hw champ. haye could generate the interest to bring boxing back to a mainstream sport in the uk

Not holding my breath, I loathe our TV companies

same here. but if haye unifies the division(big if) then surely he will give the tv companies something to think about.plus we have alot of good prospects coming through.heres to hoping 2 years down the line british boxing is back in the mainstream im guessing your not a haye fan? you seem to be hating on him a bit

By beating a Klit we would have had a legit stake to the crown, we could have had what we dream of already!!

And no, no, no, no, no, I'm not hating on Haye, I want him to win Saturday, and was chuffed when he wiped out Enzo!!

I just see the decision as short sighted beyond belief, he wont get what he wants at the table, and he could get beaten by Valuev, who is no bum!! He would be left nowhere!!

[gemmell]

the klits have stated that they want to control all the titles. if they want a big money fight then they will be fairer to haye then they were last time.simple as. money talks rocket

[thepocketrocket]

But the way he dicked them about can you see them being generous??

Its a case of 'who needs who?' Haye will have to come crawling back before they beg him for the WBA title!!!

[gemmell]

But the way he dicked them about can you see them being generous??

Its a case of 'who needs who?' Haye will have to come crawling back before they beg him for the WBA title!!!

crawling back? hardly. if haye ko's valuev haye vs the klits will be just about the biggest fight of the decade in the hw division! the money will bring the klits to the table trust me. the whole world will demand the fight

[nobby_nobbins]

But the way he dicked them about can you see them being generous??

Its a case of 'who needs who?' Haye will have to come crawling back before they beg him for the WBA title!!!

I doubt the Klitschkos really care about being "dicked about". They are shrewd enough to realise that Haye's antics and ring performances are attracting a lot of interest, which will translate into more people watching the fight, which translates into more money. Fighting Haye will be a business decision.

[gemmell]

But the way he dicked them about can you see them being generous??

Its a case of 'who needs who?' Haye will have to come crawling back before they beg him for the WBA title!!!

I doubt the Klitschkos really care about being "dicked about". They are shrewd enough to realise that Haye's antics and ring performances are attracting a lot of interest, which will translate into more people watching the fight, which translates into more money. Fighting Haye will be a business decision.

x2 the klitchko's are buisnessman

[d]

And how much did Chagaev(not a bum btw) get paid for figting Wlad??? He was class, beat Valuev, legit title winner....did that really make him a big cheese at the negotiating table???

Me thinks Wlad took the lions share there!!!

The Klits wanted to tie David up and just have him fighting each brother plus the rematch.
The money was crap, but the options were unreal.

[thepocketrocket]

I meant the contract pull outs!! Doubt they will be eager to do business, or they will at least make him suffer!!

Fight of the decde is a bit extreme!!! But it would be a worthwhile fight for them...I just dont see how much differant the contract will be though....

They are still the champs and they will still get the lions share!!! But a share of something is better than lots of nothing!! If he loses to Valuev he is yesterdays man!

[thepocketrocket]

Right off to get my nose corterized, enjoy your day than I will enjoy mine!!

[gemmell]

I meant the contract pull outs!! Doubt they will be eager to do business, or they will at least make him suffer!!

Fight of the decde is a bit extreme!!! But it would be a worthwhile fight for them...I just dont see how much differant the contract will be though....

They are still the champs and they will still get the lions share!!! But a share of something is better than lots of nothing!! If he loses to Valuev he is yesterdays man!

i dont mean it would be a great fight haye vs the klits but money wise and the amount of hype around it will be huge.

[Nelson Gateau]

So, what was the original offer??? And do you really think he will get 50%?

Plus, I think we are missing the point that if he beat a Klit he would become a star, and he would be able to get big money for fights, but you have to beat one first!!!!

why did vitali klitschko give arreola a 1 fight contract? because arreola is average.why did vitali give haye a 3 rematch contract?? because haye is a threat. i think vitali would beat haye but why give him a disgraceful bogus contract like that??? name me 1 fighter in the world who would have accepted that contract pocketrocket? haye wasnt asking for 50%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he was asking for a reasonable contract. if he beats valuev(which he will) then he will fight 1 of the klits next summer(guaranteed) and wont have to sign a bogus contract. haye sell's a fight so well. fighting people like arreola will get the klits good money. but come on if they fight haye they will get big big money.this is a huge fight for haye.if he ko's valuev then it is one of the most impressive wins in the last 20 years

The reason Arreola got a 1 fight contract is that the WBC considered him a mandatory defense. Not the case with Haye.

[rhino222]

a win for haye would be a massive pedestal for hayemaker promotions, it virtually guarantees hayemaker promotions a tv contract, therefore the money will be in the pot, therefore hayemaker stable will attract fighters and interest again.

all in all a world title belt will mean the world to haye and the universe to hayemaker promotions !!!

[Finn]

It all depend on the manner of the win - if he destroys valuev and sparks him then i think he is going to be the most marketable fighter in the world and the big paydays and lions share of the purses will come with it.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Pocket is either obtuse or hates Haye, I sense a bit of both and stopped reading his posts after the first 3 where this became obvious. Its a Brit fighting for a World Title Belt that will make more money than he's ever made before in a genuinely intriguing match up. Should he win then it builds a massive fight with the Klitschkos, which would be a bigger financial draw in Europe/US/Britain than any fight involving Klit/Haye, its the fight boxing needs, the Klits dont need a super fight just like Holmes didnt need/want 1 in the 80s I dont think

[Autobarn]

And how much did Chagaev(not a bum btw) get paid for figting Wlad??? He was class, beat Valuev, legit title winner....did that really make him a big cheese at the negotiating table???

Me thinks Wlad took the lions share there!!!

chagaev had really gone "off", with illness (hepatitis) and inactivity. he'd fvcked it with the WBA title, and had nowhere else to go.

[Autobarn]

Pocket is either obtuse or hates Haye, I sense a bit of both and stopped reading his posts after the first 3 where this became obvious. Its a Brit fighting for a World Title Belt that will make more money than he's ever made before in a genuinely intriguing match up. Should he win then it builds a massive fight with the Klitschkos, which would be a bigger financial draw in Europe/US/Britain than any fight involving Klit/Haye, its the fight boxing needs, the Klits dont need a super fight just like Holmes didnt need/want 1 in the 80s I dont think

exactly. and given haye has only fought at heavyweight 3x (twivce vs genuine heavies), the size difference is certainly "significant" - to use thepocketrocket's term.

[Chambers2]

OK, first and foremost I rate Valuev quite highly, as in I don't see him as the lumbering oaf that man do..he is big, has underated skills and decent stamina!!

Sadly, I'm just not seeing the significance of the fight. Haye talked about beheading the Klits, then, after all his boasts, and completely missing the point that if he beats either he becomes a star, he wets out saying he wants 50%!

If he beats Valuev its a good win but he has not got a slice of the pie, The Klits own the whole bloody chippy! and if he thinks that beating 'the giant' that will change he is barking mad!!

It says a lot that the Yanks have no interest in this, its a heavyweight fight not involving the Klits, why would they give a rats ass?

Sorry to put a downer on this but is it just me who thinks like this?

When has Haye said he wants 50% to fight a Klitschko? He said he was paying them their respect in the negotiations when I presumed meant he was asking for less than 50%.

If he beats Valuev it gives him a far better standing in the division and more negotiating tools when dealing with the Klitschkos. From what Haye was saying the Klits were taking the piss in their recent talks, hence why he's making twice as m,uch from the Valuev fight.... plus the Klits wanted numerous options and rematch clauses.

Once Haye sparks Valuev, Wlad and Vitali will come to the table more realistically because there'll be alot more wonga to go round

[thepocketrocket]

I am neither obtuse or a hater!!

What I am saying is that the WBA title isn't a genuine chunk in the modern climate...and that the rest of the world where boxing lives, not just this forum, regards Valuev as nothing but a freak show( they are incorrect). They will see this as him beating a clown and after the dust has settled it won't make a 'significant' impact on negotiations! It won't make any impact as 90% of the world(once again incorrectly) will believe that the win is of interest, but hardly earth shattering!!!

And the risk-reward here isn't right, he loses and he is yesterdays man, but obviously according to some here David has already won it and its a matter of turning up!

[jamesmcdonnell]

I am neither obtuse or a hater!!

What I am saying is that the WBA title isn't a genuine chunk in the modern climate...and that the rest of the world where boxing lives, not just this forum, regards Valuev as nothing but a freak show( they are incorrect). They will see this as him beating a clown and after the dust has settled it won't make a 'significant' impact on negotiations! It won't make any impact as 90% of the world(once again incorrectly) will believe that the win is of interest, but hardly earth shattering!!!

And the risk-reward here isn't right, he loses and he is yesterdays man, but obviously according to some here David has already won it and its a matter of turning up!

Why is the WBA not a genuine chunk precisely?

It's no less legitimate than the WBC or IBF.

Vitali and Wlad have been around a long time, but neither of them has exactly had to face a murderers row of heavyweight challengers - the division is weaker than it has been since the late 80's, perhaps even worse.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I am neither obtuse or a hater!!

What I am saying is that the WBA title isn't a genuine chunk in the modern climate...and that the rest of the world where boxing lives, not just this forum, regards Valuev as nothing but a freak show( they are incorrect). They will see this as him beating a clown and after the dust has settled it won't make a 'significant' impact on negotiations! It won't make any impact as 90% of the world(once again incorrectly) will believe that the win is of interest, but hardly earth shattering!!!

And the risk-reward here isn't right, he loses and he is yesterdays man, but obviously according to some here David has already won it and its a matter of turning up!

Again balls.

Risk reward? If Haye doesn't win a title, how is he ever going to get in the frame - the Klitchskos aren't exactly falling over themselves to fight him are they. Since the last fight got cancelled, they've not exactly been complimentary about Haye.


Haye has to take on Valuev to get back in the negotiations.

[charlieb]

What does Haye beating Valuev actually mean, really?

1. It means a former unified cruiserweight world champion becomes a heavyweight world champion by beating a legitimate title holder. A rare and admirable feat, even moreso when you consider he'll have beaten both Mormeck and Valuev in their back yards'.
2. Sky and HBO have a circle jerk at the prospect of televising all things Haye related, glamour division and all that, ergo, the Hayemaker Promotions train keeps rolling, whatever's left of it.
3. The Klitschkos' become equals at the negotiating table.

Ask a stupid question...

[stujones]

The fight is more important than the belt. Sure, Valuev is the weakest of the champions (although possibly the most awkard). However, US TV, whilst not interested in the fight are interested in Valuev as a side show. If there is a timber moment, they will be clammouring to get Haye there

US TV DON'T WANT THE KLITCHSKO'S AS CHAMPIONS, cause they are not that interesting to watch. THey will want to see them conquered, and will see Haye as the man who could do it.

[WildWaylon]

I think the interest in this fight is all about size difference. Haye happens to be one of the lightest of the HWs and Valuev is the heaviest HW of all time. Valuev is one of natures freaks who most people want to see whoever he fights. Haye fights are usually only of interest to the fans, but this one will have a much, much bigger audience. Haye still only has 23 fights behind him yet he already has a pretty big name, why, because his KO ratio and his big gob have both put him where he is. If he was to beat the giant in true David and Goliath style with a big KO it would bring him World fame. That being the case, why would the Klits want to fight anyone else. A fight with Haye would bring them the biggest money they have ever earned for a fight. Forget the belt if Haye wins it, that is, it would be all about money and the biggest fight in many years. The belt would be just a side issue. Haye and the Klits would be on even terms with both sides wanting it. I can understand the Klits having the upperhand at the moment and demanding the lions share but all that would change if Haye scores a KO against Valuev. TBH I cant really see that scenario happening. If Haye boxes clever he could win on points with his speed, but that isnt David Hayes style. He will want to take the big man out and punching up is harder than punching down. Haye will be knackered by the mid rounds and Valuev will take advantage of Hayes vulnerable head. Sorry but I dont see Haye being heralded as the little man who conquered Goliath. I think its a British boxing dream that isnt going to happen, but I hope I am wrong. If I am David Hayes name will be up there with the likes of Lewis, Bruno, Cooper and Bugner. All huge British HW names regardless of what anyone may think of any one of those fighters.

[craigjenkins05]

the wba gives haye great bargaining the klits have always mentioned theyd love to add the wba to their collection

[thepocketrocket]

OK, despite the disrespectful tone of some of the replies I will once again try to clarify what I mean!


I do not believe that Haye, beating somebody who the general public regard as an oaf will really help his bargaining position....

I believe that if the Yanks really wanted to see David as the coming man, they would have invested in Valuev-Haye, they actually see it as a mouthy sod against a giant bum, so instead we get to see it at a normal time, but thats means a Haye win will hardly be seen as earth shattering, the achievement will be underated!

I believe that if the Klits were desperate for the WBA strap they would have fought Valuev, they havn't!

I believe that if Haye loses to Valuev, he will be seen as yesterdays man and will have missed his chance forever against the Klits, a major possibility!

So hence I believe it does not have the significance that some on here think! Am I buying it yes!,Will I be supporting Haye? Most definately!

Having a differant opinion does not make you thick or a hater, that mentality belongs on the current scene. I have tried to engage in debate, thats all