So who did Calzaghe beat exactly?

[FLINT ISLAND]

He beat Chris Eubank in 1997

In 1998 - Chris Eubank gave Carl Thompson 2 brutally tough fights - nearly knocked him out in the 1st fight

In 2004 - Carl Thompson handed David Haye his arse

So if you are gonna play the game of Calzaghe beat Kelseer who lost to Ward

Then what about

Calzaghe beat Eubank who gave Thompson 2 brutally tough fights who then went on to beat David Haye who then went on to become WBA World Heavyweight Champion

Steve Collins beat a better Eubank and wasn't hurt badly in the last seconds. Therefore he deserves even more credit in your eyes.

Maybe

But take into account Steve Collins was a expereinced battle harderd profesional who had already had the expereince of holding the WBO middleweight title and had sparred over in America and had lots of fights and expereince fighting world ranked guys like Tony Thorton, etc, etc

Calzaghe was a 25 year old kid - who was making a massive leap up in class getting into the ring with Eubank - totally inexperineced - no world title fights - no wins over any world class opponets against a vastly more experienced opponet

[Colesy]

He beat Chris Eubank in 1997

In 1998 - Chris Eubank gave Carl Thompson 2 brutally tough fights - nearly knocked him out in the 1st fight

In 2004 - Carl Thompson handed David Haye his arse

So if you are gonna play the game of Calzaghe beat Kelseer who lost to Ward

Then what about

Calzaghe beat Eubank who gave Thompson 2 brutally tough fights who then went on to beat David Haye who then went on to become WBA World Heavyweight Champion

Good post to a daft thread

[hurlock]

He beat Chris Eubank in 1997

In 1998 - Chris Eubank gave Carl Thompson 2 brutally tough fights - nearly knocked him out in the 1st fight

In 2004 - Carl Thompson handed David Haye his arse

So if you are gonna play the game of Calzaghe beat Kelseer who lost to Ward

Then what about

Calzaghe beat Eubank who gave Thompson 2 brutally tough fights who then went on to beat David Haye who then went on to become WBA World Heavyweight Champion

Good post to a daft thread

just forgot to add eubanks was drafted in severley weight drained but still had jc out on his feet 10 seconds b4 last bell
so it reflects nothing of eubanks further fights or beatings

[toomanyshots]

ward's win has put a big dent in joe's legacy!

Cheers Spoiler

[WildWaylon]

ward's win has put a big dent in joe's legacy!

Absolutely not, total rubbish.

[WildWaylon]

It amazes me, everytime Calzaghes name is mentioned, people on here like to discredit his achievements. He didnt always get the fights he wanted but whoever was put in front of him he beat. He pleaded with a prime Hopkins to fight him and was told to get in line with the others. When he fought Lacy, few on here gave him a chance but he won almost every round. Not only that he was accused of tapping fighters with no real power. Lacys face proved quite the opposite. Kessler was another fight Joe couldnt win according to many of you, but he won it well. Hopkins is an exceptional fighter with unbelievable fitness so being over 40 didnt make him an easy challenge. He floored Joe in the 2nd and roughed him up with some foul moves, but still Calzaghe won. Pavlik is a big man with a big punch but Hopkins gave him his first loss. Maybe putting on extra pounds didnt help Pavlik, but it was the skills of Hopkins that made it a very wide UD. Hopkins fought like he was 10 years younger so the old man stuff just doesnt work in his case. We can be pretty sure Pavlik would have lost against Calzaghe had they met, Joe would have been too skillfull and too fast for him. RJJ was way past his best but still a danger and Joe still came out the winner. Calzaghe mentally and physically destroyed Lacy and may well have done the same with Kessler. He is far far better than most of you will acknowledge. You just like to bang on about him having a protected career and finding faults. You could say the same about big Enzo and many others, being protected, but when they were given the big challenge they fell apart, but Calzaghe didnt. I cant wait for rise Sir Joe, and its gonna happen. Thats not bullsh1t, trust me.

[danieljenkins]

the point is rather obvious.

and i don't recall him fighting sven ottke.

why would joe go out to germany to fight sven ottke and risk getting robbed because everyone know sven ottke dont fight out of germany

[Tykemania]

the point is rather obvious.

and i don't recall him fighting sven ottke.

Might have had something to do with Ottke running scared...

[Gray-Fox]

joke slapzaghe is a punk

[Asterix]

joke slapzaghe is a punk

[Gray-Fox]

joke slapzaghe is a punk

Lol, I'm not a troll. I just think Ward showed us why Slapzaghe's career was a facade.

[bigjack]

joke slapzaghe is a punk

So just for instance, bacause iran barkley beat tommy hearns then obviously hearns was crap anyway and i could go on all day making comparisons,just drop it and move on

[Asterix]

Lol, I'm not a troll. I just think Ward showed us why Slapzaghe's career was a facade.

Your chat = troll.

[Gray-Fox]

Lol, I'm not a troll. I just think Ward showed us why Slapzaghe's career was a facade.

Your chat = troll.

Ok thanks.

Use the ignore button like I seem to remember you said you had done with me earlier...

What happened? Did you decide to remove me?

[nobby_nobbins]

Interesting one this. Froch's stature has grown because Pascal has done so well since Carl beat him. Lennox Lewis' legacy goes up a notch every time Vitali Klitschko wins a fight. So if a fighter's standing can grow following his victims' subsequent performances, then it surely follows it can also shrink? Fighters are all too aware of this, which is why Calzaghe was tipping Kessler in this tournament. Having said that, I don't think Kessler's loss to Ward makes too much difference to Joe's legacy. Their fight happened a couple of years ago, and Kessler has been frozen out of the big picture ever since. His injury problems have also worsened in that time. And no-one can take away the fact that Kessler was an undefeated, double champ when they met, whom many felt would beat Calzaghe. Calzaghe's win - whilst less emphatic than Ward's, was more significant, because he was the first to do it.

[Tykemania]

Interesting one this. Froch's stature has grown because Pascal has done so well since Carl beat him. Lennox Lewis' legacy goes up a notch every time Vitali Klitschko wins a fight. So if a fighter's standing can grow following his victims' subsequent performances, then it surely follows it can also shrink?

I don't actually think so - or at least, not often. Okay, there are genuine exceptions like anybody who beat Fraudly Embarrassin, but in most instances I think its a one way street.

Put differently, its easy enough to give credit for improvements after a loss, but it is unfair and disingenuous to say, for example "Joe, you massacred Jeff Lacy when he was a feared knockout warrior, but look at him after you did that..."

[jamesmcdonnell]

To be honest, I think this result does force us to re-evaluate Joe's career. Kessler was by far his best and most impressive win - Lacy performance was more emphatic, but Lacy was a one dimensional brute.

Many of us assumed that Kessler, following defeat to Joe, would bounce back to dominate the division, he was the supposed heir apparent.

I know the injury issues, but he was completely dominated by Ward, who is not a very experienced fighter. Ward is a talent, but to completely dominate an experienced world champ, suggests to me that Kessler is not that great a fighter.

[RLewis]

the point is rather obvious.

and i don't recall him fighting sven ottke.

why would joe go out to germany to fight sven ottke and risk getting robbed because everyone know sven ottke dont fight out of germany

While I have no desire to get involved in such a pointless discussion as this, I was told by Sven Ottke's promoter, Wilfried Sauerland, after Ottke beat David Starie that they had no interest in facing Calzaghe, even in Germany. He repeated this with Arthur Abraham, when I suggested him as an opponent for Joe a few years later.

[frankwarrenfan]

i'm sure joe was gutted at missing out on those two fights ;;-)

[Coco]

While I have no desire to get involved in such a pointless discussion as this, I was told by Sven Ottke's promoter, Wilfried Sauerland, after Ottke beat David Starie that they had no interest in facing Calzaghe, even in Germany. He repeated this with Arthur Abraham, when I suggested him as an opponent for Joe a few years later.

A good example of how difficult it is to make the big fights, in fact it shows what an achievement it is for the super6 to happen. I presume from this though that Abraham doesn't rate any of the fighters in this tournament as much as he did JC

[stujones]

Its hard to know what to think, hard to know what are private thoughts and public thoughts with fighters and promoters. Team Ottke did say on numerous occasions that they would fight Joe in Germany, Joe himself has said this also.

Good post James in relation to the thread. How many times have I heard say "Kessler is the one", "he's the one that will show how good Joe is"... and too be honest, I did expect him to win the tourney (and off course he might still). However, I do think its has affected Joe's legacy a touch. I think that people are now mentioning Kessler in decline is evidence of this - Kessler is not in decline, he's just a good, solid, fighter with lots of good attributes and nice power. BUT, he aint a great.

I couldn't help but think after the fight "I wish Ward got a move on and it was him fighting Joe in 2007". Probably would have come too soon, but he's very talented.

[liamlion]

Hopkins clearly lost, apart from the knockdown, all he did was foul, hold, fake being hurt from non low blows and cry to the ref. Plus Joe barehumped him. How can anyone say that was a debatable decision when Hopkins was a crybaby?

I totally disagree. The decision absolutely was debatable. No one won or lost that fight clearly, it was a close decision. Hence why people still debate the decision to this day!

Calzaghe may have thrown a thousand more slaps than Hopkins, but genuinely IMO Hopkins was the more controlled and skillful operator and did the more effective work in my eyes. Calzaghe looked like a poor amateur to me in this fight and didnt really land anything of note. Sure he pushed the pace but thats all he really did.

Hopkins had an absolute right to be upset at the decision. Hopkins clearly had more ring craft than Calzaghe.

[mickey1975]

the point is rather obvious.

and i don't recall him fighting sven ottke.

why would joe go out to germany to fight sven ottke and risk getting robbed because everyone know sven ottke dont fight out of germany

While I have no desire to get involved in such a pointless discussion as this, I was told by Sven Ottke's promoter, Wilfried Sauerland, after Ottke beat David Starie that they had no interest in facing Calzaghe, even in Germany. He repeated this with Arthur Abraham, when I suggested him as an opponent for Joe a few years later.

Finally,someone with first hand knowledge telling the so-called experts on here a FACT.Doubt some will listen though Ron!

[gobbles]

Hopkins clearly lost, apart from the knockdown, all he did was foul, hold, fake being hurt from non low blows and cry to the ref. Plus Joe barehumped him. How can anyone say that was a debatable decision when Hopkins was a crybaby?

I totally disagree. The decision absolutely was debatable. No one won or lost that fight clearly, it was a close decision. Hence why people still debate the decision to this day!

Calzaghe may have thrown a thousand more slaps than Hopkins, but genuinely IMO Hopkins was the more controlled and skillful operator and did the more effective work in my eyes. Calzaghe looked like a poor amateur to me in this fight and didnt really land anything of note. Sure he pushed the pace but thats all he really did.

Hopkins had an absolute right to be upset at the decision. Hopkins clearly had more ring craft than Calzaghe.

If Hopkins was in control, why did he twice feign injury from phantom low blows in the later rounds?

[Autobarn]

the point is rather obvious.

and i don't recall him fighting sven ottke.

why would joe go out to germany to fight sven ottke and risk getting robbed because everyone know sven ottke dont fight out of germany

While I have no desire to get involved in such a pointless discussion as this, I was told by Sven Ottke's promoter, Wilfried Sauerland, after Ottke beat David Starie that they had no interest in facing Calzaghe, even in Germany. He repeated this with Arthur Abraham, when I suggested him as an opponent for Joe a few years later.

thanks for bringing that up, re ottke. it's a point worth making.

however, i can't see why joe or abraham would have been on each other's radar - presumably when abraham was a rookie champ down at middle?

it reflects more badly on ottke, than abraham, with calzaghe and ottke being super middle contemporaries. anyway, joe obviosuly made up for this gap by beating prime versions of lacy and kessler, taking their titles and their unbeaten records, in 2 GREAT nights of british boxing.

every time a super middle scores a big win, these threads happen. i have even started some. i think the reason is that joe did have a career that disappointed at crucial moments, that failed to deliver for many years, that finally promised great things but (IMO) cynically cashed out.