calzaghes legacy

[hitman_hatton1]

Depends on your view of the phrase lots really. Certainly, before Lacy you could count the wins over Delaney, Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika, Veit, Brewer and Mitchell as happy nights.

Only if you had low expections for Calzaghe. Nothing wrong with Delaney or Eubank, because that was when he was coming up and won his first world title. The frustration set in when he started defending his title. Woodhall, Brewer and Mitchell had all lost their titles before Calzaghe fought them, Veit was a nobody who Calzaghe inexcusably fought twice. Sheika was a solid title defense at the time, but none of those fights got anyone really excited.

brewer and mitchell had lost close ones to ottke.

brewer had also lost an up and downer to echols.

they were still good enough defences.

they were the sort of opposition calzaghe should have been fighting more often though.

[Autobarn]

i don't think there's any need to say lacy and kessler were CRAP or AVERAGE. i mean, turn back the clock you noggins and be grateful: WE WERE ALL ASKING FOR THESE 2 FIGHTS.

Another one who does not understand the relevance of hindsight and the ability to re-evaluate past events!

Eastside awaits you D

not at all. you will find from many of my posts that i am not keen on calzaghe, for many many reasons.

but you can go too far with revisionism. like i say, we all wanted the lacy and kessler fights. we bagged and screamed for it. we stirred up debate in pubs and barber shops. we rallied the masses together, rounded them up and asked, asked, asked. no, we demanded! interesting that no one, say, rips down larry holmes' win over cooney, a fighter who amounted to nothing much, but who - and let's not underestimate this - brought considerable hype and helped make it a great event. that is one of holmes' 2 really famous wins (other being norton).

one thing you should never underestimate is that a lucrative win, a win vs the right person, at the right time, can be very important. look at fighters like tomasz adamek - a fighter for the hardcore fans if ever there was one - who himself got reduced to fighting a nobdy like bobby gunn so that he could get paid a decent amount. i wish adamek could find his lacy, someone he could twat the shit out of, get famous and set him onto big paydays (so that he stays at cruiser, where he is a genuine world champion).

these last few weeks have been VERY interesting though, and have given fuel to the anti-calzaghe fire, with jones jr and kessler losing so badly or feebly. i feel these results stir up legit debate, but there's no need to overreact.

[ArtOfWar]

Depends on your view of the phrase lots really. Certainly, before Lacy you could count the wins over Delaney, Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika, Veit, Brewer and Mitchell as happy nights.

Only if you had low expections for Calzaghe. Nothing wrong with Delaney or Eubank, because that was when he was coming up and won his first world title. The frustration set in when he started defending his title. Woodhall, Brewer and Mitchell had all lost their titles before Calzaghe fought them, Veit was a nobody who Calzaghe inexcusably fought twice. Sheika was a solid title defense at the time, but none of those fights got anyone really excited.

brewer and mitchell had lost close ones to ottke.

brewer had also lost an up and downer to echols.

they were still good enough defences.

they were the sort of opposition calzaghe should have been fighting more often though.

No they weren't, because that was around the time we were all hoping he would take a big fight in America or at least unify. Calzaghe got Mitchell right after he'd lost to Ottke and Brewer was already on the slide. No one wanted to see those fights.

[overhand_right]

He probably gave writers like Ron a lot of happy nights sat ringside for free to write about boxing.

Hiding out in Wales for a decade with a cowboy belt that ranks anybody, handing in a sick note anytime a live body was lined up and fighting names once one of his peers had already beaten them does not equate 'many happy nights' for me and clearly not many around here.

Coming off the floor to outwork two middle-aged men didn't validate his awful string of opponents, 'better than Ike Williams' LOL what a truly embarrassing post by Ron Lewis.

Go tell us how rubbish Buckley is, you numpty.

[banjo]

Depends on your view of the phrase lots really. Certainly, before Lacy you could count the wins over Delaney, Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika, Veit, Brewer and Mitchell as happy nights.

Only if you had low expections for Calzaghe. Nothing wrong with Delaney or Eubank, because that was when he was coming up and won his first world title. The frustration set in when he started defending his title. Woodhall, Brewer and Mitchell had all lost their titles before Calzaghe fought them, Veit was a nobody who Calzaghe inexcusably fought twice. Sheika was a solid title defense at the time, but none of those fights got anyone really excited.

brewer and mitchell had lost close ones to ottke.

brewer had also lost an up and downer to echols.

they were still good enough defences.

they were the sort of opposition calzaghe should have been fighting more often though.

Personally I didn't think the Ottke v Mitchell fight was close at all, that was just said to make Calzaghe v Mitchell more appealing, I had Ottke beating Brewer in both fights too.

[RLewis]

He probably gave writers like Ron a lot of happy nights sat ringside for free to write about boxing.

Hiding out in Wales for a decade with a cowboy belt that ranks anybody, handing in a sick note anytime a live body was lined up and fighting names once one of his peers had already beaten them does not equate 'many happy nights' for me and clearly not many around here.

Coming off the floor to outwork two middle-aged men didn't validate his awful string of opponents, 'better than Ike Williams' LOL what a truly embarrassing post by Ron Lewis.

Go tell us how rubbish Buckley is, you numpty.

Did I say he was better than Ike Williams? If you are going to quote and insult me, at least try to read my posts.

[overhand_right]

You said you agreed with him, or wouldn't disagree with him, whatever. It's the same thing. BETTER THAN IKE WILLIAMS.

That 'expert', dear old 'Lord' Brooks, might need to be retired off. Is he involved in the continuing licensing of Terry O'Connor to ref fights? The BBBC are as corrupt as any gangsters at the WBO, WBA etc.

[RLewis]

You said you agreed with him, or wouldn't disagree with him, whatever. It's the same thing. BETTER THAN IKE WILLIAMS.

That 'expert', dear old 'Lord' Brooks, might need to be retired off. Is he involved in the continuing licensing of Terry O'Connor to ref fights? The BBBC are as corrupt as any gangsters at the WBO, WBA etc.

I said he thought Calzaghe was the best British boxer since the war. Ike Williams was American. He's entitled to his opinion. You obviously disagree.

[overhand_right]

To watch Calzaghe's amateurish open-gloved slapping of Peter Manfredo & co and claim he is any kind of 'best' British fighter with the likes of Ken Buchanan, Lennox Lewis et al who boxed so perfectly and executed punches so correctly is quite simply embarrassing for Lord Brooks.

[MightyWarrior]

Thing is, if you hear boxers talk about Joe, past and present, it's to say what a fantastic fighter he was - which says it all really.

[ALI]

i don't think there's any need to say lacy and kessler were CRAP or AVERAGE. i mean, turn back the clock you noggins and be grateful: WE WERE ALL ASKING FOR THESE 2 FIGHTS.

Another one who does not understand the relevance of hindsight and the ability to re-evaluate past events!

Eastside awaits you D

not at all. you will find from many of my posts that i am not keen on calzaghe, for many many reasons.

but you can go too far with revisionism. like i say, we all wanted the lacy and kessler fights. we bagged and screamed for it. we stirred up debate in pubs and barber shops. we rallied the masses together, rounded them up and asked, asked, asked. no, we demanded! interesting that no one, say, rips down larry holmes' win over cooney, a fighter who amounted to nothing much, but who - and let's not underestimate this - brought considerable hype and helped make it a great event. that is one of holmes' 2 really famous wins (other being norton).

one thing you should never underestimate is that a lucrative win, a win vs the right person, at the right time, can be very important. look at fighters like tomasz adamek - a fighter for the hardcore fans if ever there was one - who himself got reduced to fighting a nobdy like bobby gunn so that he could get paid a decent amount. i wish adamek could find his lacy, someone he could twat the poop out of, get famous and set him onto big paydays (so that he stays at cruiser, where he is a genuine world champion).

these last few weeks have been VERY interesting though, and have given fuel to the anti-calzaghe fire, with jones jr and kessler losing so badly or feebly. i feel these results stir up legit debate, but there's no need to overreact.

Fair post

I agree people can go way overboard with revisionism, but think its fair in Calzaghe's case. His career biggest wins were Lacy and Kessler, two highly ranked, highly touted, highly anticipated oponents who had looked great against decent oposition, but not great oposition. Therefor, if either fails to reach higher heights than they did pre Calzaghe, and in Lacy's case become completely exposed, its fair to reasses the meaning of those victories.

Kessler stunk the joint out against Ward, he really was terrible, but its premature to write him off. If i had only ever seen the Ward fight, i'd fancy Froch easily, but Froch's style will be much more suited to Kessler. I'm making no predicitons, but will not be at all surprised if Kessler wins this in good fashion.

[stujones]

Joe's a love or hate him type. I found his career quite boring but you cannot knock the fact that he did it his own way, (eventually) took on some decent names and got out with his '0', and it looks like he will stay out. Fair dues.

On the other hand, I think he gave the most happiness to insomniacs, as his fights were often terribly dull and messy. Kesser is the stand out one for my money, he toyed with a decent opponent, the Dane may not be as great as people once thought, but he is decent enough for this era. Luckily, Riddick 'I'll have a nap during this fight' Bowe wasn't at Joe's bouts, we'd never have brought the big man back to life.

As for respecting the opinion of someone just because 'they've seen them all'. A museum security guard may have looked at some wonderful works, but that does not mean he is in a position to judge them adequately. Some of the ring card girls have seen more fights, and ceilings, than I have, do they know more about the sport than me...aye, probably. Anyway, this Brook guy, I'd take his opinions with a pinch of salt, his jewelry range is crap. Did this guy see ever Lennox Lewis (big black geezer, a much better fighter who fought around the same time as Joe) box?

HINT: If you like Joe you like him, if you don't then you don't, state your case to the best of your ability and then try to not climb a water tower when someone else says they enjoyed his fights/reign.

Whatever, you couldn't knock, or take, his pooooooowah...unless you were Ashira, or Bika, Salem also.

Good post. For me Joe has the BEST managed career in British boxing history. Well, alongside 2 time world champion Herbie Hide.

[Finn]

im still amazed that calzaghe gets so much credit for beating lacy who would have been beaten by old RJJ, Taylor and most of the top 10 at that stage. He was and is absolute sh*te.

I think he's mainly sh*te because of the manor of the beating he took from calzaghe, if that fight hadnt happened he probably would have gone on to big things once your head not in the game ur damaged goods.

[Eraserhead]

A great talent, but not a great fighter. In 50 years time, nobody will count any of his supposed 'great' wins as anything more than routine title fights. Lacy was barely world-class, Kessler was just an average titleholder and the wins over Hopkins and Jones were great in name, but not in performance. Like many, I thought he lost to Hopkins anyway.

His whole legacy centres around the fact he remained undefeated. If you value a fighter's zero, then you can perhaps make a case for him being a genuine legend. I'd rather take someone like Ray Leonard, who lost to Roberto Duran and then beat him in the rematch. Those results alone make someone like Leonard a greater fighter than Calzaghe.

Calzaghe could have been a legend, but he didn't realise it until he entered his mid-30s.

[Scrap]

For a long time He was going through a messy Divorce, I dont think He wanted to earn to much money complications . Joe did everything wrong, Right a very good Fighter who you wouldnt bet against

[Asterix]

Calzaghe was at Prizefighter last night, with his Strictly Come Dancing girlfriend.

[Adamj1987]

Calzaghe was at Prizefighter last night, with his Strictly Come Dancing girlfriend.

indeed and enzo looked like he had dyed his hair