Boxer vrs Wrestler/Jack Johnson to Evander Holyfield

[Expug]

Kym,thats too bad that the coaching in Australia for wrestling is scarce.
I know there are plenty of lads there who would be outstanding.The spirit and drive is there I am certain.
Ive seen your wrestling ability on films of your fights. Its outstanding. That Greco supplex you pulled off against that huge guy in that one fight was great.
Here in these parts, the midwestern part of the US, wrestling is huge. Talented wrestlers and coaches. It is in the high schools and colleges.
Its a great sport. I have alot of respect for it for sure.

[Robinson]

Thanks Pug,

I think what harms wrestling is that it is not easy, it is competition geared
and unlike martial arts it has no grading or ranking system for people, so
you have to wrestle hard in training to establish the pecking order.

I was lucky to have some really talented Euro's nearby that I was able to
soak up for info. At one time we had an Aussie olympian, a european champion,
a Warsaw Pact jr's champion and a Russian silver medalist training under the
same roof for $3 a session ! Those were the coaches and we had maybe
3 or 5 people over 15 years of age training. The kids that were there did it reluctantly.

Now an Iranian Greco guy who wrestled in the worlds is coaching Persian and Afgani
lads here in Adelaide, he wrestled for Iran in the worlds..this guy was working is about
5'5 and wrestled at 135 maybe...but he is so damned strong and his greco skills
are incredible. His lads are really good and are like sponges. Not many Aussie lads
seem drawn to the sport, though atleast the recently Australian citizens are interested
in keeping the sport alive.

Even Judo is dead here in Sth Aust, and I do not think it is super healthy Aust wide,
atleast Kodokan judo anyhow. Alot of watered down Judo clubs around, but not many
hard core competition clubs.

[zojo]

Wrestling here in Australia is even scarcer. I had to hunt down some euro
imports that are walking encyclopedia's they helped me gain my ears and
I have been lucky since.

Ironically they made money on the side in the 80s and 90s doing 'fake'
stuff at parties, circuses and regular shows.

"The Polish Axe"
and
"The Czechoslovakian Maniac"

Back in 2004, The Aussie Sports Commission deemed wrestling a "sport to be saved" and they were sending out grant money to clubs. Has there been a trickle-down effect yet? I left Australia (and thus wrestling in Australia) back in 2005. Has there been an increase in the sport since then?

The money is there. Just not the coaches or any one with knowledge or experience
to coach and train the kids that DO want to learn it. Their are no clubs around and
no true exposure of the sport whether in the media or in the schools. The youngest
wrestling coach in Adelaide is 52. There are some younger lads in their 20s that
have been training...but will they coach ?

The way the sport is surviving is in an impure way. BJJers and MMAers are training with
those wrestlers that are around to help with their games. But as for the sport of
wrestling expanding who knows ? I competed in the last Greco Roman nationals in 2005,
Greco has all but gone as a sport here, now we have just freestyle and with FILA changing
the rules often it mnakes it harder for the old timers to keep up let alone the younger gen.

Wrestling is certainly a sport that needs to be saved, and no amount of money will
do it unless it is directed and focuses properly.

So sad.

I apologize if this seems like I am just doing some James Joyce rambling, but here it goes:

I coached that the Aussie Nationals a few years ago. Interesting thing was that I was by far the youngest coach at the coaches meeting the night we all had to arrive. All of these guys had been there for years and years. I was an outsider not just because I was new and a Yank, but because I was so darn young and couldn't share in any of the stories these guys had been a part of for some many years. One of the guys simply asked me if I was from Iowa. When I said no, it seemed I was of not interest to him. I was very quiet during the meeting....I simply had nothing to add.

Organization - As I stated earlier, the Australian Sports Commission has freed up money for wrestling. One way we tried to get some for our state was that we proposed that all of the coaches in WA come up with a common curriculum that we will all use. I wrote lesson plans for each practice and the other coaches in WA did the same and sent them to me. We tried to organize the sport not unlike a new school trying to gain accreditation. As of now, one of the officers in WA is creating an actual textbook about the history of the sport, technique, and the thought of having a "t-shirt system" which would reward wrestlers by passing certain assessments (not unlike martial arts do with belts. I think the organizational aspects we were striving for could garner some more attention for the sport by the federal government.

Press - When our guys came back from Nationals, I contacted a few of the local media outlets. The only one that covered the successes of these guys was one of the local free newspapers. However, I had to write the article and send in the pics. I assumed that the local sports guys probably didn't know the difference between WWE and Olympic style wrestling.

Coaches - I had been in contact just before I left WA by an All American wrestler who was just about to graduate from university and was looking for a teaching/coaching job when he come across our website. We tried and tried to get him a visa to be a professional coach AND marketing officer for the sport in WA (go to schools, presentations at local PCYCs, raise a ruckus when the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne decided to not include wrestling, etc...). However, we simply could not bring him into the country. My assumption was that in theory, that job could have been reserved for a local athlete/coach rather than sponsor someone from another country to do it. But, since wrestling is not ingrained into the sporting community in Australia yet, there are few Australian coaches to hire.

Me complaining - One of the issues we had was that there were simply not enough wrestling clubs/teams around where we were to get honest assessments as to how we were doing. We did have tournaments, but it was the same athletes and same coaches showing up at each tournament. So, you saw a common opponent all the time (sometimes your opponent was your practice partner). It is hard to assess growth and improvement if you do not have a diversity of assessments (sorry that's the school teacher in me talking). Instead, all you found out was if you did better or worse against a common opponent compared to three months earlier. That's the Catch-22: You can't have more competitions without more teams, but no one wants to stick around if they are only competing against the same few people each season....thus we never grow more teams.

On a personal note - I loved the teams I worked with. About 50% of the wrestlers were expats (like me) and 50% were Aussie born and raised. It was a great mixture where we all learned different technique whether it be from the US, Asia, the middle east, or Europe. Plus, it was great to feel like we were introducing a "new" sport to such a sports fanatic country. I would have loved to stay longer as a coach, but my wife switched jobs and we had to head back to the US.

I read in the local papers last week that Australia was sending the largest athletic team ever to the Commonwealth Games here in Delhi in October. I would love to see them do well in the wrestling tournaments (and if they were in need of an assistant-to-the-assistant-lightweight coach....), but alas, we will be departing Delhi in June.

Oh, and another memorable note from that National Championship tournament: When my team arrived in Melbourne, we tried to check in to the university that was hosting the event to make sure our registration was complete. When I asked the woman behind the desk where should I bring my team she said "Where are you from?" "Perth" I answered. "You people from Perth have strange accents." She replied. I decided not to tell her I am an American.

[Robinson]

It is interesting how each state has different nationalities as far as wrestling goes
in Melbourne it is the Indians. Adelaide the Poles and a mad Czech, in Canberra
the Russians, in Qld a Ruskie and a pole. And the yanks in WA, especially with
Brian Ebersole who is a gun MMAer and a decent wrestler.

I was involved in wrestling for a bit, but I found it got to fickle and hard like
any club based enviornment. I love the sport and I will coach lads at the
states and nationals when they are in Adelaide next, but the logistics of
going interstate is always a drama and the inter club dramas can get petty
especially when you hop over to Melb.

Adelaide may have some new life in its wrestling scene, we have three clubs
operating, all a fair way apart and the annual wrestling camps will now be bi-annual,
and one of the lads from Adelaide, Adam Collet who is a multi medalist is going
to Japan before states to train with Toshi (a legendary Jap wrestler that stayed
in SA for some time) and Dennis Richards who is in Japan, so Adam will be bringing
back that training. He is 21 and in top shape so it will be pretty awesome to see
how he applies that knowledge.

The Tshirt system you mention, was suggested by one of the wrestling coaches
here also, but in a coach, competitor, casual student, sense. I think it would be
good to identify in training.

Even basic things like trunks, boots etc are hard to come by here in Aust let alone
dummies and the likes.

[zojo]

It is interesting how each state has different nationalities as far as wrestling goes
in Melbourne it is the Indians. Adelaide the Poles and a mad Czech, in Canberra
the Russians, in Qld a Ruskie and a pole. And the yanks in WA, especially with
Brian Ebersole who is a gun MMAer and a decent wrestler.

I was involved in wrestling for a bit, but I found it got to fickle and hard like
any club based enviornment. I love the sport and I will coach lads at the
states and nationals when they are in Adelaide next, but the logistics of
going interstate is always a drama and the inter club dramas can get petty
especially when you hop over to Melb.

Adelaide may have some new life in its wrestling scene, we have three clubs
operating, all a fair way apart and the annual wrestling camps will now be bi-annual,
and one of the lads from Adelaide, Adam Collet who is a multi medalist is going
to Japan before states to train with Toshi (a legendary Jap wrestler that stayed
in SA for some time) and Dennis Richards who is in Japan, so Adam will be bringing
back that training. He is 21 and in top shape so it will be pretty awesome to see
how he applies that knowledge.

The Tshirt system you mention, was suggested by one of the wrestling coaches
here also, but in a coach, competitor, casual student, sense. I think it would be
good to identify in training.

Even basic things like trunks, boots etc are hard to come by here in Aust let alone
dummies and the likes.

I was just surfing the web and looking at all of the MMA gyms that have popped in Perth since I left (the only one I remember was Fight Club...). There seems to be many and each taught many specific classes in "MMA, BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, shoot, etc..." But I did not see a single one that offered wrestling classes. I wonder if that could be another discipline they could offer. However, again, there may not be coaches available. Hopefully, it would be a win/win for the MMA gym and wrestling.

[Brutu]

Billy Wells vrs wrestler Chick Knight(1938)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=20863


Babe Herman vrs wreslter
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=10154

also

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=28201

[Robinson]

It is interesting how each state has different nationalities as far as wrestling goes
in Melbourne it is the Indians. Adelaide the Poles and a mad Czech, in Canberra
the Russians, in Qld a Ruskie and a pole. And the yanks in WA, especially with
Brian Ebersole who is a gun MMAer and a decent wrestler.

I was involved in wrestling for a bit, but I found it got to fickle and hard like
any club based enviornment. I love the sport and I will coach lads at the
states and nationals when they are in Adelaide next, but the logistics of
going interstate is always a drama and the inter club dramas can get petty
especially when you hop over to Melb.

Adelaide may have some new life in its wrestling scene, we have three clubs
operating, all a fair way apart and the annual wrestling camps will now be bi-annual,
and one of the lads from Adelaide, Adam Collet who is a multi medalist is going
to Japan before states to train with Toshi (a legendary Jap wrestler that stayed
in SA for some time) and Dennis Richards who is in Japan, so Adam will be bringing
back that training. He is 21 and in top shape so it will be pretty awesome to see
how he applies that knowledge.

The Tshirt system you mention, was suggested by one of the wrestling coaches
here also, but in a coach, competitor, casual student, sense. I think it would be
good to identify in training.

Even basic things like trunks, boots etc are hard to come by here in Aust let alone
dummies and the likes.

I was just surfing the web and looking at all of the MMA gyms that have popped in Perth since I left (the only one I remember was Fight Club...). There seems to be many and each taught many specific classes in "MMA, BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, shoot, etc..." But I did not see a single one that offered wrestling classes. I wonder if that could be another discipline they could offer. However, again, there may not be coaches available. Hopefully, it would be a win/win for the MMA gym and wrestling.

The trouble is a BJJ or Judo guy teaching wrestling would be like a
pure Karate guy teaching boxing. Wrestling is a really hard sport
to learn proper and to coahc the fundamentals, much like boxing.
Martial Artists are 99% ignorant to how sophisticated boxing or
wrestling are. They often sell a bastardised version or an in name only
version to the public.

In SA you have to go through the association to become a coach,
get insurance and all that. No one is interested in doing it because
no one outside of MMAers know about wrestling really and even then
none of them are interested in learning the pure sport.

Greco Roman is all but dead, they have not had comps for it since '06
I think. We have a new club here in SA that is trying to focus on GR,
the coach is an ex Iranian, and he knwos his stuff. So we can only
hope that he will have some young lads in the ranks.

[zojo]

It is interesting how each state has different nationalities as far as wrestling goes
in Melbourne it is the Indians. Adelaide the Poles and a mad Czech, in Canberra
the Russians, in Qld a Ruskie and a pole. And the yanks in WA, especially with
Brian Ebersole who is a gun MMAer and a decent wrestler.

I was involved in wrestling for a bit, but I found it got to fickle and hard like
any club based enviornment. I love the sport and I will coach lads at the
states and nationals when they are in Adelaide next, but the logistics of
going interstate is always a drama and the inter club dramas can get petty
especially when you hop over to Melb.

Adelaide may have some new life in its wrestling scene, we have three clubs
operating, all a fair way apart and the annual wrestling camps will now be bi-annual,
and one of the lads from Adelaide, Adam Collet who is a multi medalist is going
to Japan before states to train with Toshi (a legendary Jap wrestler that stayed
in SA for some time) and Dennis Richards who is in Japan, so Adam will be bringing
back that training. He is 21 and in top shape so it will be pretty awesome to see
how he applies that knowledge.

The Tshirt system you mention, was suggested by one of the wrestling coaches
here also, but in a coach, competitor, casual student, sense. I think it would be
good to identify in training.

Even basic things like trunks, boots etc are hard to come by here in Aust let alone
dummies and the likes.

I was just surfing the web and looking at all of the MMA gyms that have popped in Perth since I left (the only one I remember was Fight Club...). There seems to be many and each taught many specific classes in "MMA, BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, kickboxing, shoot, etc..." But I did not see a single one that offered wrestling classes. I wonder if that could be another discipline they could offer. However, again, there may not be coaches available. Hopefully, it would be a win/win for the MMA gym and wrestling.

The trouble is a BJJ or Judo guy teaching wrestling would be like a
pure Karate guy teaching boxing. Wrestling is a really hard sport
to learn proper and to coahc the fundamentals, much like boxing.
Martial Artists are 99% ignorant to how sophisticated boxing or
wrestling are. They often sell a bastardised version or an in name only
version to the public.

In SA you have to go through the association to become a coach,
get insurance and all that. No one is interested in doing it because
no one outside of MMAers know about wrestling really and even then
none of them are interested in learning the pure sport.

Greco Roman is all but dead, they have not had comps for it since '06
I think. We have a new club here in SA that is trying to focus on GR,
the coach is an ex Iranian, and he knwos his stuff. So we can only
hope that he will have some young lads in the ranks.

1. Yup, hard to teach and takes years to get comfortable to the point where muscle memory takes over and you don't have to think about "what do I have to do next?" I am a part of a brand new team that we just started this year. Our first tournament is next week. I had to apologize to the guys last week because from here on out practices are going to have to get really boring (drilling the same moves over and over and over again to get the muscle memory in there), but hopefully boring now equals happy success next week.

2. I had to go through the same process to coach in WA. I even had to have a buddy of mine who I coached with for years back in the US write a letter of recomendation for me to get my coaches accreditation.

[Expug]

Zojo and Kym, as far as wrestling goes, you two would really enjoy it in this part of The US.
Here in the Midwest, wrestling is huge. The Collegiate big ten program, most high schools have it etc.
Its very popular. Kids who wrestle in High School and do well can look at going to Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota,and a host of other powerhouses.
Its funny that you mention a Judo or Bjj guy trying to teach wrestling Kym. Here, they wouldnt even consider trying that.Nobody would buy into it at all. The sports are regarded separately and a person like myself trying to coach it would be laughed at. No credibility whatsoever. Judo is totally different. People here would scoff.The thing that does happen however, is certain Martial Arts dojos trying to operate half -assed mma programs just to try to make a buck. That is popping up all over the place. Who are these people? noone knows

[Robinson]

Zojo

It is also hard to develop wrestling instincts and a wrestlers hips.
Two things that a lot of guys over look. Are you guys going to
Nats In Canberra ?
You should come over to SA, we have some decent coaches
and they run regular camps here. Though sadly they peaked out
around '05-06. We used to have good numbers from all over
training here then.

Pug,

It would be awesome to have a wrestling programme like you
guys do, here in Australia. That is one weakness Aussies face
in MMA> no wrestling back ground, and it shows when we come
up to even an average wrestler in the cage. Judo without a
gi is what you need to do more of :) mix in some of your hands
work and you would be Christophe Leninger 2.0 ;)

[zojo]

Zojo

It is also hard to develop wrestling instincts and a wrestlers hips.
Two things that a lot of guys over look. Are you guys going to
Nats In Canberra ?
You should come over to SA, we have some decent coaches
and they run regular camps here. Though sadly they peaked out
around '05-06. We used to have good numbers from all over
training here then.

I left Australia in 2005 and I am now teaching/coaching at a high school in India. (coached in the US, AU and now IND)

Another coach and I just started a brand new wrestling team here this season. We leave next Thursday for sunny Cairo, Egypt to enter our kids in their first ever wrestling tournament. The kids are psyched and the coaches are overly excited. The school has never had a wrestling team before, so no matter how they do next week, we'll be breaking new ground.


Oh, and Pug....I saw that Iowa State just became the first college in history to earn it's 1,000th wrestling match on Sunday. Pretty cool stuff.

[HomicideHenry]

Billy Wells vrs wrestler Chick Knight(1938)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=20863


Babe Herman vrs wreslter
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=10154

also

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=28201

Nice work Brutu!

[Robinson]

Zojo

If your ever back in Aust let me know mate. We are doing our best to
get wrestling back up and running atleast here in SA anyhwo.

Melb has some decent Indian wrestlers I wrestled against a few of them
in both freestyle and GR in the '05 nationals.

Have you trained in any Kalaparayit (however its spelt) ?

[Brutu]

For what its worth.
Carnera wrestling a Polish wrestler(1931)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=60040



Joe Louis's debut as a wrestler(1956)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=40290

[HomicideHenry]

For what its worth.
Carnera wrestling a Polish wrestler(1931)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=60040



Joe Louis's debut as a wrestler(1956)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=40290

[Collins2000]

For what its worth.
Carnera wrestling a Polish wrestler(1931)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=60040



Joe Louis's debut as a wrestler(1956)

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=40290

What day in February do you have your first fight, Rufus?

[Brutu]

BTW The Uline Arena in Washington DC were Joe Louis made his wrestling debut in 1956 was later renamed the Washington
Coliseum and today(February 11th) is the 46th anniversary of the Beatles playing their first live concert in America there ,which was recorded by CBS and shown a month later on closed-circuit theater.Im sure they played on the very ring that you see Joe Louis wrestling on in the film footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMTQRWKtvUk

[zojo]

Zojo

If your ever back in Aust let me know mate. We are doing our best to
get wrestling back up and running atleast here in SA anyhwo.

Melb has some decent Indian wrestlers I wrestled against a few of them
in both freestyle and GR in the '05 nationals.

Have you trained in any Kalaparayit (however its spelt) ?

One of the elementary school PE teachers have told me that he knows of a local Kushti wrestling gym in Delhi that he wants me to check out. I am very interested in learning this style.

I have been a history teacher for a few years now. I find it really cool in the historical and cultural significance of wrestling within other countries. Historically, different regions in the world have their own type of wrestling: Freestyle, Kushti, Sumo, Folk, Turkish, Sambo, etc...I would love to learn as many as I can and bring a piece of each to each new team I get to work with.

When we lived in Saudi Arabia, a man got in touch with me because he had married a woman from Chechnya. He told me that at some point he, his wife and their two boys were going to be moving back. However, in the part of Chechnya where his wife was from, wrestling was expected from all boys. So, I tried to "tutor" him in basic wrestling fundamentals so that he in turn would be able to teach his boys so they wouldn't feel left out when they went back to their mother's hometown.

I love how sports and culture at times intertwine. That is why I can't wait to try my hand at Kushti once this season is over.

[Knucklez]

Is American beer served in pints? I always thought it was either served in smallish glasses or massive flagoons.

[ebeneezer]

Jack Doyle vs Tony Galento

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt33VKcwQfA

[raylawpc]

Is American beer served in pints? I always thought it was either served in smallish glasses or massive flagoons.

In St. Louis, we serve our beer in fishbowl beer mugs.

[zojo]

Zojo

If your ever back in Aust let me know mate. We are doing our best to
get wrestling back up and running atleast here in SA anyhwo.

Melb has some decent Indian wrestlers I wrestled against a few of them
in both freestyle and GR in the '05 nationals.

Have you trained in any Kalaparayit (however its spelt) ?

One of the elementary school PE teachers have told me that he knows of a local Kushti wrestling gym in Delhi that he wants me to check out. I am very interested in learning this style.

I have been a history teacher for a few years now. I find it really cool in the historical and cultural significance of wrestling within other countries. Historically, different regions in the world have their own type of wrestling: Freestyle, Kushti, Sumo, Folk, Turkish, Sambo, etc...I would love to learn as many as I can and bring a piece of each to each new team I get to work with.

When we lived in Saudi Arabia, a man got in touch with me because he had married a woman from Chechnya. He told me that at some point he, his wife and their two boys were going to be moving back. However, in the part of Chechnya where his wife was from, wrestling was expected from all boys. So, I tried to "tutor" him in basic wrestling fundamentals so that he in turn would be able to teach his boys so they wouldn't feel left out when they went back to their mother's hometown.

I love how sports and culture at times intertwine. That is why I can't wait to try my hand at Kushti once this season is over.

Well, got my chance to experience Kushti wrestling. As you can see, I got taken to school a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twWB-eQpKEY


More recently, I filmed some traditional wrestling in Ethiopia. After one of the days of the festival, I got a quick footage of me and another participant vying for a first-takedown exhibition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN65F5BiJdo

[johnnykayo]

I seen one of Carnera's matches on an old VHS tape I have called 'The Golden Age of Wrestling', guys like Rocca and Moose Cholak were on it. Carnera was a better wrestler, or showman, if you like, than as a boxer---and if i may say so, he looked happier in his new chosen profession too.

is that on dvd ? lov to see that

[zojo]

Jack Johnson trying a bit of wrestling while visiting Berlin in 1914

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPG65NY ... zg&index=2