All hail John Murray!

Autobarn
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by Autobarn »

liamlion wrote:
Autobarn wrote:yes you're missing something.

if he meets a stronger pressure fighter i would think he'd do some boxing.

and if he meets a slick boxer, then he'd probably have a plan to put him under some real pressure.


pressure fighter does not necessarily = slow and limited. he can use his assets to break down, and thus slow down, quicker guys. as to the defense issue, i keep on saying. i've seen mitchell's head swiveled round by shots many times, whereas i've seldom seen it happen to murray.

yes mitchell can box well outside, but we saw that he loses a lot in terms of clean scoring blows when he moves so much. i mean, how many times did he puch short vs prescott, and how many times did he hit arms? i'd answer a lot on both counts.
Absolute speculation without any foundation!

Murray has given asbolutey no indication in his previous showings to suggest he can perform anything other than how he always does e.g. walk-forward, pressure fighter. I really dont think he has another plan and whatever short falls Mitchell may have he absolutely boxed the 'heed' off Prescott and showed some steel and toughness too. The kid has never remotely been close to losing to someone of the level of Youssef Al Hamidi, unlike Murray.

Lets get this right, Murray is susceptible to losing to someone who will box the head off him, partly due to the fact that his feet are always firmly planted. IMO Mitchell has the perfect style and ring craft to do just that (ala his performance against Prescott). Mitchell is leagues above the likes Lee McAllister and I dont see that fight being a blue-print as to how Murray-Mitchell would pan out.
that's a very limited outlook. murray boxed excellently vs thaxton, for instance. straight, quick shots more than pressure. and he broke down a very awkward defensive fighter, in mcallister - appropriately dragging him into a rough fight. we've seen the boxing, seen the pressure, in different situations and he can build on this. he's severely busted up tough cookies who are smaller than him (meager, buckland), but he's also stopped guys his own size, that have campaigned well as light welterweights (thaxton, mcallister - both with awkward styles - and to an extent hickman). murray has done more than he's being given credit for and he has loads of potential.

all this stuff about "mitchell!" and "levels" is bollocks. mitchell landed only a handful of good shots on prescott. mitchell is being given the opportunities (prescott, katsidis) whereas you're bringing up an unmotivated, stale murray (of the munguia and al hamidi fights) to present a deliberately one sided argument.

both are excellent fighters and would have one hell of a fight. i'm glad these 2 names are getting thrown around as i always thought it wasa great matchup and always felt mitchell was bound for lightweight.
overhand_right
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by overhand_right »

Was this really a European-level win?

Has Murray had a European level win yet?

I would answer no to both questions.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by Spud »

I think John Murray has massive potential - but as other have hinted and I have stated - it really is time for Murray's promoter (Meaty Mick) to get the necessary opponents now!!!

Or it maybe time for Murray to move promoters although with him winning the European title last night I am not sure whether he can bearing in mind the "normal" contracts have clauses in them if a fighter wins a title they have to stay with the promoter for a certain period of time - not sure whether this applies to Murray.

With all that said - I am sure Barry Hearn will be more than happy to showcase Murray's skills on his shows - its the direction Meaty Mick is sending his boxers until he sorts his own TV contract out.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by stujones »

Has anyone seen the rankings for Europe at Lightweight on Boxrec. Okay, we've been critical of the rankings - but its quite refreshing to see the top 25.

I personally feel Kev Mitchell is a better fighter at Lightweight and think he will be too quick for John.

I still think John's lack of pop will be his undoing.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by terminator »

way too one-sided for it to be fight of the year IMO
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by The_Don1 »

slapbangwhallop wrote:
The_Don1 wrote:
slapbangwhallop wrote: Ireland's Andy Murray has the EU title,
rah you are so irish it bores me, guy made an obvious slip up in saying EU instead of EBU

p.s. magee and mcloskey are UK european champions, therefore the UK has 11 european champions out of 14 weight categories, big up the UK!
yes and they are two different belts. did I say "Ireland Andy Murray has the EU title you dumb fornicate"??? No. I just pointed out who was the EU champion. As for Magee and mcCloskey - :TU:
my apologies i was somewhat inebriated at the time of writing that fair play to you
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by TheCobra »

Spud wrote:I think John Murray has massive potential - but as other have hinted and I have stated - it really is time for Murray's promoter (Meaty Mick) to get the necessary opponents now!!!

Or it maybe time for Murray to move promoters although with him winning the European title last night I am not sure whether he can bearing in mind the "normal" contracts have clauses in them if a fighter wins a title they have to stay with the promoter for a certain period of time - not sure whether this applies to Murray.

With all that said - I am sure Barry Hearn will be more than happy to showcase Murray's skills on his shows - its the direction Meaty Mick is sending his boxers until he sorts his own TV contract out.
Agree totally. Murray has massive potential, I could see him being a fringe world level fighter who may well be good enough to get one of the world belts if he got the right backing by a well-monied promoter.

As it is he is having to do everything the hard way, grafting for low pay on small hall shows, not saying that any boxer has a divine right to skip past the hard work, but Murray is now 29-0 and he NEEDS to step up in levels before he goes stale.

It would appear to me that he would be made for the Hatton-stable of fighters, he is a manchester lad, knows Hatton and also has an exciting come-forward, body punching style not too dis-similar to old Ricky lad.

God knows what sort of contract he is in with Hennessey but if I was his manager I would be looking for any possible avenue to get out of it and get in with Hatton!
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by BigEars »

slapbangwhallop wrote:
Cotto16 wrote:Yeah good performance from John, but am sure he can do better.

But just gotta say, well done to Gary Buckland, showed the heart of a lion and a incredible will to win. Dissapointed his corner didn't pull him out do, he may have took a few years of his career by being a hero. Thought his corner team were a real letdown and embrassament.... :shame:

Would love to see John make his first defence of his EU Title against Yuri Romanov. That would be a cracker. :OhYes:
Ireland's Andy Murray has the EU title,
Not anymore he doesn't and he didn't have it going into the Fagan fight either, which is why it wasn't on the line.
The Vietnamese Spaniard Hoang Sang Nguyen(who went 1-1 with Daniel Rasilla) has the title now after winning it in January.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by DIRT SUGAR »

Good fighter but don't think he's got the power to go to very top and know he's had a tough time what with no fights etc, but you have to be a very special pressure fighter to get to top without one-shot power and don't think he's world-title material. No disrespect and he came up against a very game guy in Buckland who fought what is probably the fight of his life.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by Spud »

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Good fighter but don't think he's got the power to go to very top and know he's had a tough time what with no fights etc, but you have to be a very special pressure fighter to get to top without one-shot power and don't think he's world-title material. No disrespect and he came up against a very game guy in Buckland who fought what is probably the fight of his life.
I honestly believe Ricky Hatton did not have one punch power - he used to get rid of his opponents by the sheer volume of punches and constantly being on top of his opponents not giving them a moments peace. Whilst I fully accept Murray is no where near Hatton's league and in addition Murray still has a lot to prove - I see no reason why he wont get some very lucrative fights. Yes he has a lot to prove - but his promoter now has to put Murray in a position to either prove his doubters right - or his supporters right.

One way or another it has to be John Murray's time for decent quality fights - and I dont mean against unknown quantities that we have never heard of.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by slapbangwhallop »

BigEars wrote:
slapbangwhallop wrote:
Cotto16 wrote:Yeah good performance from John, but am sure he can do better.

But just gotta say, well done to Gary Buckland, showed the heart of a lion and a incredible will to win. Dissapointed his corner didn't pull him out do, he may have took a few years of his career by being a hero. Thought his corner team were a real letdown and embrassament.... :shame:

Would love to see John make his first defence of his EU Title against Yuri Romanov. That would be a cracker. :OhYes:
Ireland's Andy Murray has the EU title,
Not anymore he doesn't and he didn't have it going into the Fagan fight either, which is why it wasn't on the line.
The Vietnamese Spaniard Hoang Sang Nguyen(who went 1-1 with Daniel Rasilla) has the title now after winning it in January.
How could I have forgotten BE, I watched some clips of him on YouTube after you mentioned him on Boards.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by MrBoxingUK2 »

states wrote:If Johanneson can cause Mitchell so much bother, so can Murray though. It's a fascinating fight. Which we'll probably never see.
mitchell was weight drained..under the wrong trainer..had the wrong tactics mate,the murray of today would have took johanssen out quickly
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by Autobarn »

isn't murray meant to be fighting andrei kudriavtsev?

this is a tough figth, for murray, mitchell or any lower top 10 world rated lightweight.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by mickey1975 »

MrBoxingUK2 wrote:
states wrote:If Johanneson can cause Mitchell so much bother, so can Murray though. It's a fascinating fight. Which we'll probably never see.
mitchell was weight drained..under the wrong trainer..had the wrong tactics mate,the murray of today would have took johanssen out quickly
I think Kevin underestimated Johanneson.Tibbs wouldnt let him make that mistake again.I also think he was suprised by Carl's power.Murray is a totally different fight
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by Deno1986 »

Autobarn wrote:isn't murray meant to be fighting andrei kudriavtsev?

this is a tough fight, for murray, mitchell or any lower top 10 world rated lightweight.
If Murray goes the mandatory route, Kudriavtsev is next up. Lee McAllister is main challenger, then comes Mitchell at No.1, Mezzache at No.2 and Andy Murray at No.3.

Mezzache vacated last year so is probably seeking a world title shot, McAllister is injured and Mitchell is going around the EBU.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by Autobarn »

i hope murray-kudriavtsev happens. the we can compare murray's performance with WBA champ paulus moses', who stopped kudriavtsev. also, murray and kudriavtsev's styles will gel extremely well as they both apply pressure. and, it allows murray to move onward before mcallister starts demanding a shot at the title. let's face it, there is no point murray fighting the same guy again.

i don't think murray v rees is necessary, because it's sort of the buckland fight all over again. when you factor in rees being a sawn off, all-out aggressor, and when you consider that murray would have a better preparation and more notice than for buckland, it's too similar a fight.

hopefully showtime are still interested in murray. murray vs jason litzau, perhaps. showtime have lost all their top light welters, but seem interested in the lightweights. valero is dead, demarco battered. there could be an opening for john murray, who has that american infighting style that will make him fan friendly even over there.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by boxfan3 »

I was at this fight, what a great fight, all credit to both boys, and a big hand to Buckland. one person who should get a mention is the ref Marcus McDonnell what a great job, he gave every chance to Buckland, and also to his corner to pull him out, in the end Marcus had to stop it. I feel Bucklands corner need to be talked to by the BBBC, everyone could see Buckland had given his all, but yet they kept sending him out, lucky Marcus McDonnell is one of our top referees and stopped the contest when he did. On the subject of referees I feel we have some great referees in this country, I feel theres nothing to choose between Howard Foster/Victor Lockran/Marcus McDonnell all are great referee's who just get on with the job and don't look for the lime light, like a few of the others do. :bag:
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by THEBUTCH »

Solid performance from Murray and congratulations in winning the Lonsdale Belt for keeps. John also showed he's getting better control of the red-mist that seems to gather for his fights.

What a brave showing from Buckland. I hope the Board nominate him to box for the vacant British title if Murray vacates.

A defence or two of the EBU would be good and then target the top 3 world title. I can't see the Mitchell fight happening while they are both near their peaks. If Mitchell beats Katsides, Warren will be looking to make him as much money as possible against low risk opponents.....i.e "the usual" :roll:
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by DIRT SUGAR »

Spud wrote:
DIRT SUGAR wrote:Good fighter but don't think he's got the power to go to very top and know he's had a tough time what with no fights etc, but you have to be a very special pressure fighter to get to top without one-shot power and don't think he's world-title material. No disrespect and he came up against a very game guy in Buckland who fought what is probably the fight of his life.
I honestly believe Ricky Hatton did not have one punch power - he used to get rid of his opponents by the sheer volume of punches and constantly being on top of his opponents not giving them a moments peace. Whilst I fully accept Murray is no where near Hatton's league and in addition Murray still has a lot to prove - I see no reason why he wont get some very lucrative fights. Yes he has a lot to prove - but his promoter now has to put Murray in a position to either prove his doubters right - or his supporters right.

One way or another it has to be John Murray's time for decent quality fights - and I dont mean against unknown quantities that we have never heard of.
Yep, but Hatton was a special pressure fighter. Murray doesn't have the X-factor Hatton had. Watched Hatton against Thaxton in his 14th fight and you knew he was going places. I don't get the same kind of feeling from Murray.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by DavidPayne »

Spud wrote:I thought it was an excellent professional performance by John Murray against a very under-rated guttsy fighter who will give plenty of people problems.

Its now time for "Meaty Mick" to step Murray up - he needs big shows and whats more as a double champion deserves them.
Patience is a virtue for MH fighters.

Eastman, Witter and Froch took a long, long time to make good on their rankings.

Murray should be so sellable. I saw him win that Youth title in about 1976 and he looked ready for pushing on then.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by liamlion »

DavidPayne wrote:
Spud wrote:I thought it was an excellent professional performance by John Murray against a very under-rated guttsy fighter who will give plenty of people problems.

Its now time for "Meaty Mick" to step Murray up - he needs big shows and whats more as a double champion deserves them.
Patience is a virtue for MH fighters.

Eastman, Witter and Froch took a long, long time to make good on their rankings.

Murray should be so sellable. I saw him win that Youth title in about 1976 and he looked ready for pushing on then.
Dont forget Robert McCracken as well!

One of the perils of being loyal to climbing the WBC top ten ratings. You can see why the WBO might seem an attractive alternative to some.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

THEBUTCH wrote:Solid performance from Murray and congratulations in winning the Lonsdale Belt for keeps. John also showed he's getting better control of the red-mist that seems to gather for his fights.

What a brave showing from Buckland. I hope the Board nominate him to box for the vacant British title if Murray vacates.

A defence or two of the EBU would be good and then target the top 3 world title. I can't see the Mitchell fight happening while they are both near their peaks. If Mitchell beats Katsides, Warren will be looking to make him as much money as possible against low risk opponents.....i.e "the usual" :roll:
mitchell has his work cut againt Katsidis, watched his fight with Diaz the other night, what a war! Can Murray keep him off for 12 rounds, I don't know, he will have to fight the perfect fight because i think it unlikely he can stop Katsides.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by n1ebf »

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:Solid performance from Murray and congratulations in winning the Lonsdale Belt for keeps. John also showed he's getting better control of the red-mist that seems to gather for his fights.

What a brave showing from Buckland. I hope the Board nominate him to box for the vacant British title if Murray vacates.

A defence or two of the EBU would be good and then target the top 3 world title. I can't see the Mitchell fight happening while they are both near their peaks. If Mitchell beats Katsides, Warren will be looking to make him as much money as possible against low risk opponents.....i.e "the usual" :roll:
mitchell has his work cut againt Katsidis, watched his fight with Diaz the other night, what a war! Can Murray keep him off for 12 rounds, I don't know, he will have to fight the perfect fight because i think it unlikely he can stop Katsides.
i would lean toward agreeing with you James, whatever years, or wars, Katsidis has behind him, he is dangerous for every second he is stood up. The battle with Casamayor (one of many) was ferocious, and he wasn't taken out by any old punch, but one of the sweetest shots ever thrown.
This said, I think Kevin Mitchell is developing a habit of getting the job done. He can box a bit, punch a bit, he can think in there and I think you can probably apply the term Butcher's dog to Mitchell too.
The fear that many of us probably have, is of him slumping to the deck somewhere around 3, 4 or 5, but I think Mitchell will find a way to win and surprise a good few people. I think it will be the best night of his career.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by jamesmcdonnell »

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
THEBUTCH wrote:Solid performance from Murray and congratulations in winning the Lonsdale Belt for keeps. John also showed he's getting better control of the red-mist that seems to gather for his fights.

What a brave showing from Buckland. I hope the Board nominate him to box for the vacant British title if Murray vacates.

A defence or two of the EBU would be good and then target the top 3 world title. I can't see the Mitchell fight happening while they are both near their peaks. If Mitchell beats Katsides, Warren will be looking to make him as much money as possible against low risk opponents.....i.e "the usual" :roll:
mitchell has his work cut againt Katsidis, watched his fight with Diaz the other night, what a war! Can Murray keep him off for 12 rounds, I don't know, he will have to fight the perfect fight because i think it unlikely he can stop Katsides.
i would lean toward agreeing with you James, whatever years, or wars, Katsidis has behind him, he is dangerous for every second he is stood up. The battle with Casamayor (one of many) was ferocious, and he wasn't taken out by any old punch, but one of the sweetest shots ever thrown.
This said, I think Kevin Mitchell is developing a habit of getting the job done. He can box a bit, punch a bit, he can think in there and I think you can probably apply the term Butcher's dog to Mitchell too.
The fear that many of us probably have, is of him slumping to the deck somewhere around 3, 4 or 5, but I think Mitchell will find a way to win and surprise a good few people. I think it will be the best night of his career.

Yes but he has done the job against vastly inferior opposition to Katsidis, Prescott has a punch, but not much else, and he telegraphs his shots terribly, Katsidis can fight in the pocket, and has underrated boxing skills when he elects to use them.

Personally, I think Katsidis will either grind him down or win a lopsided points decision - i am happy to be wrong, but I just don't see who Mitchell has fought which will prepare him for the onslaught he is going to face against Katsidis. Casamayor had him down three times, and he still couldn't finish the job, and it took an absolutely peach of a left hook from the southpaw stance to finish it, and only then I think because Katsidis erroneously thought Casamayor was finished after knocking him out of the ring the previous round.
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Re: All hail John Murray!

Post by THEBUTCH »

Mitchell has definitely got his work cut out. Katsides is a different proposition altogether to anything Kevin has faced before, but Mitchell really has got good skills AND the toughness AND the power & speed.

Part of my confidence comes from the fact Warren is prepared to let Mitchell fight him. He must feel Mitchell's got what's needed.

Katsides might just walk through him and make it look like man against boy, but for me, there has been some massive changes/improvements in Kevin's attitude and when you combine this with the talent he has, I think he can do it either on points or by stoppage in an epic battle. With all due respect, Mitchell is no Graham Earl and can dish out way more punishment on Katsides than he might realise.
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