Klitschko vs Chisora signed for 11th Dec!!

[deadpan]

I agree with all but Riddick. I think he is hugely over-rated and would've been stopped late by Vit and UD'd by Wlad. He was on the slide by '95.

[Jeff Thomas]

Chisora has very little chance. This is going to be the Danny Williams beat down all over again unfortunately. Fair play to Chisora for stepping up though. Hope he wins it.

[josh fg]

Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua. That doesn't compair well to fighting a 14 fight novice. This is horrible and shows being able to controle the terms and money is more important to the Klitschkos than any boxing achievements.

For those blaiming haye for not fighting them, would you put your body at risk and get ripped off for the pleasur, particularly when - like Haye - you haveint made enough to set you for life. I think Haye will take the fight I hope it's on his terms. He hasn't fought any bums, indeed this is the first fight one can see as easy in 6 fights and he's fighting a 6ft 5 former olympic champion who won his last fight with one arm!

[Nightmare Roy]

Surprise surprise, K2 brothers force him to take the shitty end of the purse and tie him up in contractual stuff.

Who the hell dictates that he "rematch" his brother?

I think this nonsense is probably the real reason why Haye hasn't fought them, good luck to Del Boy, some people are saying he's too small, well i saw him the other day and he looks pretty damn big to me, i think he just has to go for it full pelt early.

[SweetLikeSugar]

I say good luck to the lad.

Despite getting the short end of the purse, being a relative novice of 14 fights, his contract being riddled with all sorts of clauses AND fighting the the number 1 heavyweight in the world in his backyard, it turns out Britain does have a heavyweight who wants to fight the best in the division.

COME ON DEL BOY!!!!

[orbtastic]

Is 200k his actual purse, or his end of the purse? Surely by the time he's had deductions etc he'll end up with about 50k?

[Captain Hook]

The idea that Haye somehow won the Mormeck fight simply by standing up until his opponent lost steam is a compelling one. Not half as compelling as the evidence presented in the fight itself. Haye made good use of the left hook to the body, which can tire the opponent. Sometimes a nice left hook to the body is a better weapon than merely standing there waiting for the other guy to gas, sometimes, not always.

WBO, rubbish, isn't it? How Marco Antonio Barrera got his respect when holding that belt is beyond me. Actually, it isn't -- it was because he is a very good fighter. Enzo, whilst not as good, was respected in the division at that time and many people went for him to win, then promptly said 'I told you so' when he lost.

When I first joined Boxrec I thought that 'revisionism' was the art of preparing for your GCSEs. Blimey, how wrong can one man be.

f*ck the WBO belt! not worth the leather its attached to. hold WBOllocks in the same regards as IBO- b or c level belt.....WBC and WBA belts are the only ones with real history....

Calzaghe, Hamed? The best in their respective divisions for many years

[alexpaterson]

As king G says the fighter makes the belt couldn't agree more

[Captain Hook]

I think history will look on them more kindly.

Their CVs will look very good, agreed, but easily the best opponent on Vitali's CV is Lewis, and he lost that one.

Big names, but very few of them came and gave it 100% against the Klits. Those who did were vastly inferior but at least they were brave. Williams, for example.

Lewis took on all comers at a time when they were at or around their peak - Tua, Rahman, Grant, Briggs etc etc

Fast forward 5-10 years and they're all still getting world title shots or in the mix. Frightening.

It's fair to say the division has never been in a worse state, I just hope Haye vs one of them happens at some point..

The Klitschkos aren't everybody's cup of tea but they are far better than they are sometimes given credit for. They do what they do very well. Okay Wlad has been clipped a couple of times but so was Lennox. Vitali has lost due to injury (twice).

For reference these were the heavyweight rankings 20 and 15 years ago respectively. The Klitschkos would've been there or thereabouts, in my view. I don't think any of the 1990 incarnations of the fighters listed would beat them. I think Lewis & Bowe in 1995 would probably have beaten both brothers. The rest would struggle.

1990
1. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
2. Mike Tyson (would lose on points or get stopped late)
3. Razor Ruddock (puncher's chance only - would probably get stopped)
4. James (Buster) Douglas (would be outboxed)
5. Tim Witherspoon (puncher's chance - would lose on points)
6. Carl Williams (would get sparked)
7. Francesco Damiani (would get stopped late)
8. Riddick Bowe (still on the way up, might not have known enough)
9. Ray Mercer (shut out on points)
10. George Foreman (beaten on points)

1995
1. Riddick Bowe (would win)
2. Lennox Lewis (would win)
3. Mike Tyson (would get stopped)
4. Michael Moorer (would get stopped)
5. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
6. Bruce Seldon (would get sparked)
7. Frank Bruno (would get stopped)
8. George Foreman (would retire on his stool)
9. Alexander Zolkin (would lose on points or get stopped late)
10. Henry Akinwande (would get stopped)

I respect your opinion MachoMan, but to say you're overestimating them would be an understatement.

You don't believe any of the top 10 heavyweights 20 years ago would have beaten these two robotic fuckers?

I agree they're effective, but they've never fought anyone of the calibre of that list, bar Lewis, as I've mentioned previously..

As nobody else has picked up on this it must just be me! Oh well.....back to work...

[Dioufy]

If Wlad is doing what he always does then after 7 rounds I'd pull Del Boy out. This is a win-win fight but only if Del doesn't get a Williams-style beating.

[oliverfennell]

valuev is a joke, mormeck was shot and macerinelli has always been mediocre....

Hindsight is great isn't it? There wasn't too many people who said any of those things prior to the fights.

Agreed mate..

What a effing bullshit post.. Enzo was a champ as well, Haye was challenger to Mormeck and fought him overseas and 50% of people on here had Haye losing to Valuev pre-fight

This is BoxRec. First rule of BoxRec is "everything and everyone is sh1t". Second rule of BoxRec is nobody will ever make a wrong prediction, so long as it's made after the fight.

[oliverfennell]

They wouldn't have been in the top five 15-20 years ago...

That's a bit harsh. They might not be the most exciting or charismatic, but you surely can't deny their talent, ring generalship and fitness. Obviously 15-20 years ago we had the likes of a young Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe, a near-peak Tyson and the still-capable Holmes and Foreman, but consider even in that era people like Moorer, Seldon, Bruno, McCall, Morrison and Hide won belts. Can you honestly not see the Klitschkos beating those guys?

[oliverfennell]

Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua.

No, I don't. Does anyone?

[oliverfennell]

As king G says the fighter makes the belt couldn't agree more

The fighters use the belts to get established, and once they get to a certain level, the fighter makes the fighter, nothing else.

If the fighters made the belts, then why hasn't the IBO been legitimised by Lewis, Hatton, Tarver, Klitschko... or the WBU by Foreman... or the WBF by Roy Jones?

[Captain Hook]

They wouldn't have been in the top five 15-20 years ago...

That's a bit harsh. They might not be the most exciting or charismatic, but you surely can't deny their talent, ring generalship and fitness. Obviously 15-20 years ago we had the likes of a young Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe, a near-peak Tyson and the still-capable Holmes and Foreman, but consider even in that era people like Moorer, Seldon, Bruno, McCall, Morrison and Hide won belts. Can you honestly not see the Klitschkos beating those guys?

Yes to Moorer, Bruno and Seldon et al but not Lewis, Bowe, Tyson and a younger Holyfield...

I don't remember anyone attacking Lewis for fighting Tua either

[oliverfennell]

Their CVs will look very good, agreed, but easily the best opponent on Vitali's CV is Lewis, and he lost that one.

Their CVs will look great, and history DOES reward longevity, even in times of poor competition. Consider Hopkins and Calzaghe are rightly credited for their long reigns, even allowing for a number of poor challengers. At heavyweight, Holmes and Louis had a lot of "filler". Same deal with the Klitschkos. Wlad has now racked up 10 consecutive defences and barely dropped a round while doing so. Those are impressive stats however you look at it.

[orbtastic]

Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua.

No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

[oliverfennell]

Well an awful fight, remember Lennox Lewis getting attacked for fighting Tua.

No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

[orbtastic]

No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

Number 1? By the IBF, maybe and we all know their rankings are a complete nonsense (stripping Lewis for not fighting Byrd etc). I would doubt he was ever more than top five on any sane person's list.

[Captain Hook]

No, I don't. Does anyone?

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

Half of the fuckers on here still regard him as a legitimate threat, even now....

Back then most people thought he would KO Lewis.......short memories.

[Captain Hook]

The Klitschkos aren't everybody's cup of tea but they are far better than they are sometimes given credit for. They do what they do very well. Okay Wlad has been clipped a couple of times but so was Lennox. Vitali has lost due to injury (twice).

For reference these were the heavyweight rankings 20 and 15 years ago respectively. The Klitschkos would've been there or thereabouts, in my view. I don't think any of the 1990 incarnations of the fighters listed would beat them. I think Lewis & Bowe in 1995 would probably have beaten both brothers. The rest would struggle.

1990
1. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
2. Mike Tyson (would lose on points or get stopped late)
3. Razor Ruddock (puncher's chance only - would probably get stopped)
4. James (Buster) Douglas (would be outboxed)
5. Tim Witherspoon (puncher's chance - would lose on points)
6. Carl Williams (would get sparked)
7. Francesco Damiani (would get stopped late)
8. Riddick Bowe (still on the way up, might not have known enough)
9. Ray Mercer (shut out on points)
10. George Foreman (beaten on points)

1995
1. Riddick Bowe (would win)
2. Lennox Lewis (would win)
3. Mike Tyson (would get stopped)
4. Michael Moorer (would get stopped)
5. Evander Holyfield (would lose on points)
6. Bruce Seldon (would get sparked)
7. Frank Bruno (would get stopped)
8. George Foreman (would retire on his stool)
9. Alexander Zolkin (would lose on points or get stopped late)
10. Henry Akinwande (would get stopped)

You don't believe any of the top 10 heavyweights 20 years ago would have beaten these two robotic fuckers?

I agree they're effective, but they've never fought anyone of the calibre of that list, bar Lewis, as I've mentioned previously

We'll probably never agree on this subject, mate. I actually quite rate the Klitschkos and always have done, really.

Take a few moments to look again at the top ten heavyweights from 1990 (20 years ago). I have also listed who they each fought in that year. I may concede that Holy' would perhaps be too busy for them at that stage of his career. I have never rated Tyson as highly as some. Bowe wasn't ready and the rest were either past it or never good enough.

It is worth noting that the standard of matches that year were shyte and certainly not much better (if at all) that the standard we have been served up this year.

1990 -
1) Holyfield fought Seamus McDonagh and Buster Douglas
2) Tyson fought Buster Douglas, Henry Tillman and Alex Stewart
3) Ruddock fought Michael Dokes, Kimmuel Odum and Mike Rouse
4) Douglas fought Mike Tyson & Evander Holyfield
5) Witherspoon fought Jeff Simms, Gregg Gorell and Jose Ribalta
6) Williams fought Melton Bowen
7) Damiani fought Tony Morrison and Everett Martin
8) Bowe fought Mike Robinson, Robert Colay, Eddie Gonzales, Jesus Contreras, Art Tucker, Pinklon Thomas, Bert Cooper and Tony Morrison
9) Mercer fought Wesley Watson, Kimmuel Odum, Lionel Washington and Bert Cooper
10) Foreman fought Gerry Cooney, Mike Jameson, Adilson Rodriguez, Ken Lakusta and Terry Anderson

Yeah well we won't argue for any longer on this as you're bigger than me :)

[J]

none of the belts mean eff all anymore.

by the way in case you didnt know those nice klts bros have insisted should del boy win he has to fight his elder brother...

http://www.sportinglife.com/boxing/news ... 12902.html


its this bullshit that is fookin up heavyweight boxing.

Actually, heavyweight boxing is fooked up because most of the top heavyweights are fat slobs and miles below the Klitschkos in terms of ability. Most of the fights that have fell through in the HW division are not because someone has to fight Vitali if they win, it is because there are financial details the camps can't agree on. These disagreements are common in every division, and Haye has had his part in them as well.

Even with these contracts that you think are fookin up HW boxing, the Klitschkos still manage to regularly fight top 15 opponents, and in the case of Wlad top five opponents. So you see, they aren't hurting HW boxing as much as you think. It wasn't even the contract that made Povetkin pull out, it was his trainers worries about his chance of winning.

YEAH COURSE ITS ALL DAVID HAYES FAULT THE FIGHTS DIDNT COME OFF AS WELL I SUPPOSE ISNT IT.

back to the current scene with you.

get real .

[oliverfennell]

Yeah, I do. He'd not really beaten anyone that good since losing to Ibeabuchi.

Well, I suppose there will always be some people who will find a negative in anything, but the prevailing, majority opinion was that Tua was a deserving number one contender and a genuine threat.

Number 1? By the IBF, maybe and we all know their rankings are a complete nonsense (stripping Lewis for not fighting Byrd etc). I would doubt he was ever more than top five on any sane person's list.

Name four heavyweights who were more deserving of a title shot in late 2000.

[orbtastic]

Please point me in the direction of rankings (in print or internet) other than IBF where Tua was rated above number 5?

I'm sick to death of all this revisionist nonsense spouted on here.

[orbtastic]

I'm not saying he didn't deserve it, just challenging the statement that he was universally recognised as the number 1 at the time.

I never, ever rated Grant but people were so high on him - He was top 2-4 on most people's lists as was Johnson but neither of them really did much and were subsequently exposed.

Tua spent the 2 years after getting IBF mandatory status (in a highly controversial fight) alternating between feasting on cans and the buffet table - He was ridiculously out of shape, and as you say just had one plan - trudge forward winging left hooks.

People like to look back on this era and talk about how talent rich it was, jeez this is the period where Larry Donald was ranked in the top ten. LARRY DONALD FFS.