Off Topic: Bin Laden Killed by US Forces

[Ezzard]

Gents, Carbo really knows his stuff. I could read his thoughts and opinions on the conflicts all day.

[charlieb]

This may sound good when chatting in the student kitchen with your Che Guevara t-shirt-wearing friends, but I think you'll find the world is more complex than that.

I'm stealing that.

[jtourettes]

A brief dispelling of ten Osama myths from The guardian: [urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/os ... NTCMP=SRCH][/url]

but I guess we can't trust them as they're mainstream media, right?

[Srebmun]

Gents, Carbo really knows his stuff. I could read his thoughts and opinions on the conflicts all day.

I disagree... he's spouting a lot of words without actually saying anything.

[observer1]

Gents, Carbo really knows his stuff. I could read his thoughts and opinions on the conflicts all day.

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

[Counter-puncher]

ironically, sometimes I think carbo chats a bit of nonsense.

but i think he's been pretty sensible on this thread..

how's that for a backhanded compliment?

[jBacca]

Al Qaeda have now confirmed Bin Laden is dead. All over militant websites apparently.

[Wales]

A brief dispelling of ten Osama myths from The guardian: [urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/os ... NTCMP=SRCH][/url]

but I guess we can't trust them as they're mainstream media, right?

Most damning of all...

10. Bin Laden was an Arsenal fan

Despite fans reportedly chanting "Osama, woah-woah, Osama, woah-waoh, he's hiding in Kabul, he loves the Arsenal", Bin Laden was not a faithful of the north London club.

[doctorboxing]

Al Qaeda have now confirmed Bin Laden is dead. All over militant websites apparently.

They are in on the cover up as well

[banjo]

Gents, Carbo really knows his stuff. I could read his thoughts and opinions on the conflicts all day.

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

So why don't you enlighten us, you go around saying "stop talking rubbish" blah blah blah but you never seem to offer an intelligent opinion(which I think you are more than capable of) on the subject.

[exittored]

Gents, Carbo really knows his stuff. I could read his thoughts and opinions on the conflicts all day.

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

So why don't you enlighten us, you go around saying "stop talking rubbish" blah blah blah but you never seem to offer an intelligent opinion(which I think you are more than capable of) on the subject.

Well Carbo does a lot of ramblings all be it well written ones but he fails to enlighten us either apart from bog standard regurgitation. In all honesty i could almost predict his replies and what he would say to corraborate his views and things are never as black and white as he makes them,

Once he told jamesmcdonnell to ‘go search for the information yourself' as he couldn't provide it or call people with different ideas to him as 'conspiracy nuts', the debate is over for me and i personally couldn't be bothered debating any longer with someone who has an entrenched view on the matter and so these are my last comments on the matter.

No wonder governments around the world spend so little effort keeping their people informed or telling the truth when most of them are Sheep and are so accepting of what they’re told no matter that history has informed us of lie after lie after lie after lie from them.

I’m not trying to make a case that Bin Laden is innocent but after informing myself of the information available from all sides i know we've only got half truths and misinformation. Basically we are all puppets but some of us can see the strings.

[banjo]

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

So why don't you enlighten us, you go around saying "stop talking rubbish" blah blah blah but you never seem to offer an intelligent opinion(which I think you are more than capable of) on the subject.

Well Carbo does a lot of ramblings all be it well written ones but he fails to enlighten us either apart from bog standard regurgitation. In all honesty i could almost predict his replies and what he would say to corraborate his views and things are never as black and white as he makes them,

Once he told jamesmcdonnell to ‘go search for the information yourself' as he couldn't provide it or call people with different ideas to him as 'conspiracy nuts', the debate is over for me and i personally couldn't be bothered debating any longer with someone who has an entrenched view on the matter.

No wonder governments around the world spend so little effort keeping their people informed or telling the truth when most of them are Sheep and are so accepting of what they’re told no matter that history has informed us of lie after lie after lie after lie from them.

I’m not trying to make a case that Bin Laden is innocent, don’t really care either way but after informing myself of the information available from all sides i know we've only got half truths and misinformation. Basically we are all puppets but some of us can see the strings.

I was a puppet but I cut the strings, I now do random things out of boredom or for my own amusement, just like we all should.

[charlieb]

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

So why don't you enlighten us, you go around saying "stop talking rubbish" blah blah blah but you never seem to offer an intelligent opinion(which I think you are more than capable of) on the subject.

Well Carbo does a lot of ramblings all be it well written ones but he fails to enlighten us either apart from bog standard regurgitation. In all honesty i could almost predict his replies and what he would say to corraborate his views and things are never as black and white as he makes them,

Once he told jamesmcdonnell to ‘go search for the information yourself' as he couldn't provide it or call people with different ideas to him as 'conspiracy nuts', the debate is over for me and i personally couldn't be bothered debating any longer with someone who has an entrenched view on the matter and so these are my last comments on the matter.

No wonder governments around the world spend so little effort keeping their people informed or telling the truth when most of them are Sheep and are so accepting of what they’re told no matter that history has informed us of lie after lie after lie after lie from them.

I’m not trying to make a case that Bin Laden is innocent but after informing myself of the information available from all sides i know we've only got half truths and misinformation. Basically we are all puppets but some of us can see the strings.

That may sound good when chatting in the student kitchen with your Che Guevara t-shirt-wearing friends, but I think you'll find the world is more complex than that.

[Carbo]

Gents, Carbo really knows his stuff. I could read his thoughts and opinions on the conflicts all day.

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

Want to be more specific?

[Carbo]

Not really, most of what he said was Rubbish.

Carbo, I find it ironic you're stereotyping the Che-Guevara t-shirt wearing students, (not that i disagree with that). But most of what you said is false.

So why don't you enlighten us, you go around saying "stop talking rubbish" blah blah blah but you never seem to offer an intelligent opinion(which I think you are more than capable of) on the subject.

Well Carbo does a lot of ramblings all be it well written ones but he fails to enlighten us either apart from bog standard regurgitation. In all honesty i could almost predict his replies and what he would say to corraborate his views and things are never as black and white as he makes them,

Once he told jamesmcdonnell to ‘go search for the information yourself' as he couldn't provide it or call people with different ideas to him as 'conspiracy nuts', the debate is over for me and i personally couldn't be bothered debating any longer with someone who has an entrenched view on the matter and so these are my last comments on the matter.

No wonder governments around the world spend so little effort keeping their people informed or telling the truth when most of them are Sheep and are so accepting of what they’re told no matter that history has informed us of lie after lie after lie after lie from them.

I’m not trying to make a case that Bin Laden is innocent but after informing myself of the information available from all sides i know we've only got half truths and misinformation. Basically we are all puppets but some of us can see the strings.

If you read my post to James carefully, I asked whether he had actually tried to look into it, because there was so much evidence. I then said I couldn't remember everything I'd read on the matter, but then listed some of the key points. That is to say, I provided a general overview which contained a great deal of evidence, and then suggested he read further into the issue himself (I mean, I witter on enough as it is -- do you really want a full 20,000 word essay on it?)

What I most certainly did not do is say, "read it yourself" and then leave it at that.

Governments spend so little time actually trying to keep their people informed because there are loads of people like you who seemingly can't be bothered to go and learn about public policy themselves, can't comprehend the English language properly when they do see something that actually gives them a real argument, and when evidence is presented to them ignore it because they've already made up their own minds. I mean, what's the point? That's why on the AV referendum, for instance, they're not making constitutional and electoral arguments but just saying, "They want what Goebbels wanted" and bashing out YouTube videos.

But that's politics, I guess. What was it Churchill said? "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter". I think that could apply to you.

You haven't come up with one counter argument to anything I've said, and have instead concentrated on attacking me, rather than my arguments. A dead give away, I think, that you can't really counter them.

To be clear: I have no time for the Bush administration. I think it entered the White House in scandal and corruption -- and only then because Al Gore was too afraid of precipitating a constitutional crisis -- and basically got worse from there. He allowed the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever to happen on his watch, he turned a healthy budget surplus into the biggest post-war deficit, he let the financial sector run wild with calamitous consequences, his performance during Hurricane Katrina was nothing short of a disgrace, his education policies failed, his healthcare policies sent costs soaring and achieved sweet FA, he left the country with the worst recession since the 1930s, he didn't catch Bin Laden, he lost the war in Afghanistan when it was nearly won, and worse, he did it by transferring men and materiel to a war in Iraq that I still to this day to not understand, and in doing so absolutely destroyed America's credibility as leader of the free world. I also think that the way he treated Congress during that time was probably unconstitutional, and that he could also go to prison for breaking the Geneva Conventions on war.

So, you might be getting the impression that I didn't like him or his disastrous administration. I have similar feelings about the Blair Ministry -- although he certainly wasn't as outright disastrous as the Bush Administration. What I'm trying to say here is that I'm not some patsy for neo-conservatism.

But I've come to these conclusions not by just going with the fashion, but actually reading about it and trying to draw my own conclusions.

I suspect from your post, you have not, and it's a shame, because that really is why governments don't respect voters.

[Counter-puncher]

What was it Churchill said? "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter". I think that could apply to you.

.

[palooka]

I suspect from your post, you have not, and it's a shame, because that really is why governments don't respect voters.[/quote]

You have a good point there and with some of the deceit and awful corruption and downright lies that come from our elected 'representatives' it is little wonder that millions do not trust their Governments and choose not to vote at all. (Not sure if that's the longest sentence I've ever typed).

[exittored]

So why don't you enlighten us, you go around saying "stop talking rubbish" blah blah blah but you never seem to offer an intelligent opinion(which I think you are more than capable of) on the subject.

Well Carbo does a lot of ramblings all be it well written ones but he fails to enlighten us either apart from bog standard regurgitation. In all honesty i could almost predict his replies and what he would say to corraborate his views and things are never as black and white as he makes them,

Once he told jamesmcdonnell to ‘go search for the information yourself' as he couldn't provide it or call people with different ideas to him as 'conspiracy nuts', the debate is over for me and i personally couldn't be bothered debating any longer with someone who has an entrenched view on the matter and so these are my last comments on the matter.

No wonder governments around the world spend so little effort keeping their people informed or telling the truth when most of them are Sheep and are so accepting of what they’re told no matter that history has informed us of lie after lie after lie after lie from them.

I’m not trying to make a case that Bin Laden is innocent but after informing myself of the information available from all sides i know we've only got half truths and misinformation. Basically we are all puppets but some of us can see the strings.

If you read my post to James carefully, I asked whether he had actually tried to look into it, because there was so much evidence. I then said I couldn't remember everything I'd read on the matter, but then listed some of the key points. That is to say, I provided a general overview which contained a great deal of evidence, and then suggested he read further into the issue himself (I mean, I witter on enough as it is -- do you really want a full 20,000 word essay on it?)

What I most certainly did not do is say, "read it yourself" and then leave it at that.

Governments spend so little time actually trying to keep their people informed because there are loads of people like you who seemingly can't be bothered to go and learn about public policy themselves, can't comprehend the English language properly when they do see something that actually gives them a real argument, and when evidence is presented to them ignore it because they've already made up their own minds. I mean, what's the point? That's why on the AV referendum, for instance, they're not making constitutional and electoral arguments but just saying, "They want what Goebbels wanted" and bashing out YouTube videos.

But that's politics, I guess. What was it Churchill said? "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter". I think that could apply to you.

You haven't come up with one counter argument to anything I've said, and have instead concentrated on attacking me, rather than my arguments. A dead give away, I think, that you can't really counter them.

To be clear: I have no time for the Bush administration. I think it entered the White House in scandal and corruption -- and only then because Al Gore was too afraid of precipitating a constitutional crisis -- and basically got worse from there. He allowed the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever to happen on his watch, he turned a healthy budget surplus into the biggest post-war deficit, he let the financial sector run wild with calamitous consequences, his performance during Hurricane Katrina was nothing short of a disgrace, his education policies failed, his healthcare policies sent costs soaring and achieved sweet FA, he left the country with the worst recession since the 1930s, he didn't catch Bin Laden, he lost the war in Afghanistan when it was nearly won, and worse, he did it by transferring men and materiel to a war in Iraq that I still to this day to not understand, and in doing so absolutely destroyed America's credibility as leader of the free world. I also think that the way he treated Congress during that time was probably unconstitutional, and that he could also go to prison for breaking the Geneva Conventions on war.

So, you might be getting the impression that I didn't like him or his disastrous administration. I have similar feelings about the Blair Ministry -- although he certainly wasn't as outright disastrous as the Bush Administration. What I'm trying to say here is that I'm not some patsy for neo-conservatism.

But I've come to these conclusions not by just going with the fashion, but actually reading about it and trying to draw my own conclusions.

I suspect from your post, you have not, and it's a shame, because that really is why governments don't respect voters.

Cut the crap and don’t tell me something I and most people on here don’t already know. So you’ve read a few books and suddenly you know what’s going on and the rest of us are ‘misinformed’ for not coming to the same conclusion as you… whoopee fornicating doo.

And now you’re hinting the “mis-informed” who don’t agree with you shouldn’t be allowed to vote….I think there’s a name for someone like you!

I live in England but I’ve also lived in America and have spent time in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan that has enlightened me beyond anything you could imagine plus I’ve tried to find a very balanced source of material and steered away from any polemics or rhetoric. Even after all this I wouldn’t even begin to have clear answers on the situation beyond knowing we’re constantly mis-directed, lied to and told half truths by world governments and sadly most mainstream media outlets.

Anyway my previous post was supposed to be my last in this thread, this was just a quick addendum. After checking up you seem an ok person so I’ll leave it with that old adage of ‘agreeing to disagree’.

[Carbo]

Cut the crap and don’t tell me something I and most people on here don’t already know. So you’ve read a few books and suddenly you know what’s going on and the rest of us are ‘misinformed’ for not coming to the same conclusion as you… whoopee effing doo.

And now you’re hinting the “mis-informed” who don’t agree with you shouldn’t be allowed to vote….I think there’s a name for someone like you!

I live in England but I’ve also lived in America and have spent time in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan that has enlightened me beyond anything you could imagine plus I’ve tried to find a very balanced source of material and steered away from any polemics or rhetoric. Even after all this I wouldn’t even begin to have clear answers on the situation beyond knowing we’re constantly mis-directed, lied to and told half truths by world governments and sadly most mainstream media outlets.

Anyway my previous post was supposed to be my last in this thread, this was just a quick addendum. After checking up you seem an ok person so I’ll leave it with that old adage of ‘agreeing to disagree’.

Well, I don't really like "agree to disagree" moments. I think it seems to imply that there can be an equitable draw. I prefer my political arguments to be fights to the death where one of us has our belief left a bloody pulp on the floor. But I am an ok person, as you'd see if we ever had the pleasure of having this debate where it really belongs -- the pub over several pints of... vodka.

I've ended up mentally gutted in a few debates before (one, in particular, when I was on the less familiar ground of American politics with a genius American lawyer who was working with Gazprom and knew American politics like Martin Sheen's aids in the West Wing. He left shamed and embarrassed by knowing more than me used every lawyers trick in the book to stick the knife in once I was half cut. It was like Bernard Hopkins taking on a novice.)

Anyway, while I don't agree to disagree, I do agree to agree that we're both probably jolly decent chaps who would better enjoy taking on various rolls in the Coming to America barber shop scene and arguing about boxing.

How's that?

[Pat Butcher]

Unanimous points victory to Carbo!

[Pat Butcher]

You do realise there was no actual evidence linking Bin Laden with 9/11 or that there's no such thing as al qaeda but hey don't let Facts get in the way of a good story, carry on believing in fairytales the government controlled media tells you.

This really was the last window of opportunity for Obama to announce the capture/death of Bin Laden. September 11th 2011 would have marked the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attack and the biggest question the Media would have been asking was 'How come Bin Laden hasn't be found' so it was really now or never as any time from September would have been too convenient and even the 'sheeple' would have questioned the story after that with his re-election year coming up in 2012.

Also very convenient he was killed...so America has at it's disposal the most modern tools of warefare including stun grenades, flash and tear gas and have a house surrounded and they can't take him alive or at least partly injured, absolute bullshit and stops America having to put him on trial and actually come up with some Evidence to try him or have certain Facts revealed.

We the people have been duped yet again although some of us are more AWAKE then others!

So is the media government controlled or will they be asking loads of awkward questions?

[palooka]

Not sure if Noam Chomsky is a BoxRec regular

[Wax On]

Has anybody on here seen the internet film, Loose Change about 9/11. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I've always felt there was something very dodgy about the information we were fed on the events of that day, even from my own limited experience of what went on watching the original eye witness accounts live on the day. If you've not seen it, spend 75 minutes watching it and see what you think. I certainly believe little that the US government has to say, and I feel the same about the whole Osama Bin Ladin affair recently.

[palooka]

I've seen it and if not every point/accusation is correct there is plenty to think about. An eye opener

[charlieb]

Has anybody on here seen the internet film, Loose Change about 9/11. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I've always felt there was something very dodgy about the information we were fed on the events of that day, even from my own limited experience of what went on watching the original eye witness accounts live on the day. If you've not seen it, spend 75 minutes watching it and see what you think. I certainly believe little that the US government has to say, and I feel the same about the whole Osama Bin Ladin affair recently.

You know that 'Loose Change' has been debunked, right?