On The Anniversary Of Foreman-Frazier I...

[Bricks]

Mugabi, if youre talking about Tyson 86-91 and how he wouldnt be intimidated by prime Foreman, please explain how he was so terrified of even the ancient Foreman that he flat refused King's advances to make the bout, telling King Foreman was an animal, and, "you fight him."

Hes suddenly going to get BRAVER for the young Foreman?

Thats an old wives tale right up there with the one Steve Farhood started about riddick bowe the night he beat Holyfield in 92 was good enough to take on any HW in history!

King knew he could never ever get options on old man Foreman, he also knew it was a fight the fans didnt really want to see during 87-90....the new york press were character assasinating Foreman especially Jeff Ryan those same idiots would have been on Kings back again during the promotion...Tyson at this time was pleased just to listen to King who plied him with young black and white and japanese groupies, and easy money, and to be away from Cayton and the "jews".....the story about D'amato considering young Foreman unbeatable is also exaggerated.... I have no doubt the Tyson of 1986-91 put in a fantasy matchup with young Foreman would not fight intimidated against young Foreman, there is no evidence of him in this era to suggest he was capable of fighting intimidated....the very thing that made him so special perhaps even more than his skills , speed and power was his ability to intimidate....beleive me I think the Foreman who took Joe on would be just as intimidated by young Tyson....but neither man would fight intimidated....and it would be George who prevailed....what King thought is irrelavent....

[Goodnight, Irene]

Mugabi, if youre talking about Tyson 86-91 and how he wouldnt be intimidated by prime Foreman, please explain how he was so terrified of even the ancient Foreman that he flat refused King's advances to make the bout, telling King Foreman was an animal, and, "you fight him."

Hes suddenly going to get BRAVER for the young Foreman?

Thats an old wives tale right up there with the one Steve Farhood started about riddick bowe the night he beat Holyfield in 92 was good enough to take on any HW in history!

King knew he could never ever get options on old man Foreman, he also knew it was a fight the fans didnt really want to see during 87-90....the new york press were character assasinating Foreman especially Jeff Ryan those same idiots would have been on Kings back again during the promotion...Tyson at this time was pleased just to listen to King who plied him with young black and white and japanese groupies, and easy money, and to be away from Cayton and the "jews".....the story about D'amato considering young Foreman unbeatable is also exaggerated.... I have no doubt the Tyson of 1986-91 put in a fantasy matchup with young Foreman would not fight intimidated against young Foreman, there is no evidence of him in this era to suggest he was capable of fighting intimidated....the very thing that made him so special perhaps even more than his skills , speed and power was his ability to intimidate....beleive me I think the Foreman who took Joe on would be just as intimidated by young Tyson....but neither man would fight intimidated....and it would be George who prevailed....what King thought is irrelavent....

An old wives' tale. It was printed, and Tyson was quoted. An entire conversation was quoted, involving multiple parties.

You get sued if that is an outright lie. Tyson never went near refuting it.

[Bricks]

Tyson was quite obviously intimidated by Holyfield for their rematch. Foreman responded to his fear of Frazier much differently. Tyson had a great chin, but in all of his losses there is a point where he just accepts that he can't win and takes his beating like a man while winging an occasional prayer. That was Mike's plan B.

Im talking about the Tyson of the late 80's thats who I assume is being considered here against the Foreman of the early 70's. There's a world of difference between the bloodthirsty, hungry, iron chinned tyson of 1986-91 and the almost meek,going through the motions, rusty as hell, and living off his past Tyson of post prison that we saw in 95-97........ The man who traded freely with powerpunchers like bonecrusher and ruddock and who another puncher Frank Bruno complained "was on me like a harbour shark".In all three of those fights Tyson took shots that would have kayoed many other top level heavyweights of the 1980s and his reaction was to always fire back with ferocity each time look at the 12th round with bonecrusher or the first with Bruno. Obviously none of those men are anywhere close to the power of Foreman, but my fundamental point is the Tyson of his early incarnation the one who sat watching tapes all night of Gunboat Smith, Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson....that man even if he had felt intimidated facing Foreman he would not have fought like that...when he tasted Foremans power he would have fought back.....even if eventually he was overcome which he would be like every other man on this list

Tyson and Bonecrusher traded hugs. He struggled mightily with James Tillis. And in his prime he was mutilated by Buster Douglas. There wasn't an invincible machine there, his same issues would have came out if he wasn't in charge. Mike is an historian of the sport, but he is clueless in the ring past the seek and destroy program in his head. That would always hurt him in a fight like this, where he is facing a stronger man that could consistently back him up. Tyson wanted nothing to do with old man Foreman, and it was the richest fight in the sport.

The hugging was all done by Bonecrusher. The Tillis fight isnt relavent at all, since he was a one year pro improving rapidly fight by fight....Im talking say the Spinks fight Tyson or the Holmes fight guy...hell the ruddock fight one as well.....im not talking about putting the only subpar Tyson of that 86-91 era in with young Foreman I mean the one that fought Douglas....that loss had nothing to do with Tyson being in his prime and losing to a superior Douglas....it has everything to do with Tyson sleeping with dozens of japanese groupies pre fight throughout his training camp and losing 40 pounds in a month...having no trainer of any repute with him...and being in personal turmoil.....again i will reiterate the tyson who fought Spinks....against the Foreman who fought Joe...not the Tyson who fought Douglas v the foreman who fought young.......peak for peak....There is zero evidence that Tyson avoided Foreman...King didnt want a Foreman fight....the New York press would have laughed it off in the 80s.. old man foreman was being laughed at in every jeffy ryan, mike marley and wally matthews column in that time...it was only after the period tyson lost to douglas and foreman beat rodriguez, that suddenly the match was a serious possibility but even than no title on the line in 1990 or 91 and the general public wasnt begging for the match like they were evander v tyson...hell razor ruddock was universally held by the boxing magazines like the ring, ko, world boxing and boxing news....as the 2nd most dangerous HW in 1991 after his breathtaking effortless kayo of mike dokes the same dokes who pushed holy in a extended brawl......the 1991 Tyson took on that incredible young powerpuncher twice within 4 months!!!!! He was not afraid of fighting Foreman in 91 he had his mind on aq Holyfield superfight and that superfight in 91 would have been the richest fight in the sport not a foreman one....if we are talking post prison Tyson in 95 -96 that was the time a Foreman fight would have been at its most lucrative and Bill Cayton said it would have been the richest in history....but don King did not want it....not Tyson....Kings job as a promoter was to provide the most money the biggest spectacle for the least risk and Tysons fight with McNeeley was one of the highest grossing fights of all time up to that point.....To me considering whether or not post prison Tyson was interested in fighting lewis or foreman or mercer or anyone else is utterly irrelevant...the man himself has said after he lost to douglas he was never the same I mean we all know the post prison tyson was a shot fighter mentally, desire wise, spirit wise, skills wise, the only thing he had left was his powers of intimidation and his power and handspeed........if we are sticking with the prime Tyson of his first incarnation....he would have fought young Foreman and fought hard....even if he would have eventually lost........I respect your opinion, and we can just agree to disagree...it wass interesting reading your view however....

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You need to use paragraphs for something that long. It's too painstaking to read that way. Smith had no intentions of trading with Tyson, but Mike was more than content to hold on. Tyson was a big clincher on the inside, it's a shame he didn't have more natural fighting instincts because he should have been deadly in tight.

Either way, they certainly weren't slugging it out. I stopped after that. If you want to edit in some spacing I'll catch the rest of it.

[Bricks]

You need to use paragraphs for something that long. It's too painstaking to read that way. Smith had no intentions of trading with Tyson, but Mike was more than content to hold on. Tyson was a big clincher on the inside, it's a shame he didn't have more natural fighting instincts because he should have been deadly in tight.

Either way, they certainly weren't slugging it out. I stopped after that. If you want to edit in some spacing I'll catch the rest of it.

Well if you lack elementary reading skills thats your problem not mine. Next time Ill draw it in crayons for ya or send a tutor along to show you how to read. Try and stop being such a whiny moaning Sadie all the time who gets pissy and starts off topic crap when he has beaten in an argument.Boy why do you have a problem admitting you're ever wrong (which is often) that's why every thread has to feature you arguing with someone who disagrees with you. Its because you say retarded things like "its a shame ( Tyson) didnt have more natural fighting instincts because he would have been deadly in tight"
You really make it easy for others to abuse you by saying troll like stuff like that I actually feel sorry for you as I genuinely beleive you are sincere in beleiving what you write and have a mental problem with admitting you are wrong.
Smith was the one holding, Tyson was complaining all night to the ref. Tyson destroyed Biggs, Berbick and Tubbs on the inside.....he was one of the most natural fighters of the 80's..if not in the history of the heavyweight division.....oh my goodness!

Accept some friendly advice for once, rather than retaliating with more abuse and insults like you usually do either way Im putting you back on ignore at this rate....