Enzo Mac and the short 1st round.

[crusader]

The bell went at 14:04.

[smoggy7188]

so it does, the 1st one i heard was at 14.07.

[JDC]

11.07 goes for final instructions
14.07 bell goes

Its just an observation, im not saying what your say is incorrect but im just putting what I noticed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cwxI6Qvy9I

I had it at 2.53 apart, and I couldn't find any reason why he could have started it 7 secs prior to that. Only perfect 3 min gap I could get was between the start of first and second rd. It's a mess regardless.

[smoggy7188]

The reason i made that observation was I cudnt understand why he would ring the bell with 47seconds left in a round and I thought that was a plausible if absoloutely f***ing ridiculous explanation for it.

[JDC]

The reason i made that observation was I cudnt understand why he would ring the bell with 47seconds left in a round and I thought that was a plausible if absoloutely f***ing ridiculous explanation for it.

Yep, here we are trying to explain the actions of someone indefensible

[The Law]

The job of a timekeeper is no easy task. It may sound simple but it needs 100% focus and concentration

Come on mate, get real, its not a difficult job at all, it needs concentration but its hardly rocket science or brain surgery.

imagine if such a lapse of concentration was made by a train or bus driver? a pilot? a surgeon? an olympic athletic judge?.......... its on par with Graham Polls 2 yellow cards for the same player, its inexcusable. The timekeeper gets well paid for doing hardly anything.

If he does not concentrate properly then the round would go on to long, it certainly would not be cut short!!!....think about it. i could see and accept as a mistake the round running over, but not being cut short, the chopper sits there with a digital counter and an analogue watch...he has 2 timepieces.

firstly i thought it was an excusable mistake, but now, because of what i just mentioned, i think there might be some skullduggery involved.

i dont want to think that, but i do!!

He did not have a digital counter (as far as I could see). I was sitting relatively near him and it was a genuine mistake. People can make it out to be more than it was. It was the first time this timekeeper has ever made a mistake. Silly mistakes occasionally do happen in all sports. Lets not make it out to be something more sinister because I can assure you it was not. Martin Fallon is one of the most honest guys in the sport.

[JamesH]

I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but making out the timekeeper role is anything other than a piece of p1ss is ludicrous. This isn't something which can be resolved by training, its basic common sense. If he's not capable of timing segments of rounds and breaks then he shouldn't be there.

[ShadrachSimmo]

That's the first i've seen it. Ridiculous stuff. There was counts for at least 2 slips that John-Lewis rightfully waved off.

[doctorboxing]

He did not have a digital counter (as far as I could see). I was sitting relatively near him and it was a genuine mistake. People can make it out to be more than it was. It was the first time this timekeeper has ever made a mistake. Silly mistakes occasionally do happen in all sports. Lets not make it out to be something more sinister because I can assure you it was not. Martin Fallon is one of the most honest guys in the sport.

Did you see what happened then? Did he ring the bell by mistake and realise his mistake as soon as he had done it or was it a timing error and he thought three minutes had elapsed?

Also, did you see why he then cut short the break between rounds?

Unfortunately at that level, mistakes or incompetence like this could cost one man his livelihood. The fight should be ruled a NC and Enzo should retire.... if FW tries to feed us Cleverly v Enzo as a allegedly main event it will be laughable.

[Exoddus]

IMO it was a con/screw job. This is just my opinion. Please don't edit my post as we all have the right to freedom of speech. I heard the bell ring twice. The bell first rang with 52 seconds left. Then it rang again with 47 seconds left.

[dondada]

Please don't edit my post as we all have the right to freedom of speech.

You don't have the right to freedom of speech. That's a myth.

I really need to put a sticky about this. Here's an accessible but far too simplified outline:

If the person/people you're accusing of corruption wanted to take legal action for defamation of character, you - and/or the publisher of your accusation - would be in a very tricky position.

If it went all the way, you (and/or the publisher) would have to PROVE your accusation to be true in a court of law. Could you do that?

Even if you could - which is incredibly doubtful - it would cost you a huge amount of money to do so and even if you won, it's doubtful that you would recoup all your costs.

http://www.libelreform.org/

[dondada]

It was clearly an act of incompetence. By my reckoning the rest period between 1-2 was short. If there was a conspiracy to keep Enzo in the fight then surely shortening the rest period torpedoed this intent. Or are we saying that there was a spirit of corruption only for the people in charge of administering the injustice to prove themselves too incompetent to do this?

Yes, it was a real shame this marred the opening round, and it is sad that Shane lost his title, but he had a further 33 minutes to play with so we can sit in a big hand wringing circle jerk crying our eyes out and singing the blues for the end of liberty, truth, justice and the American way, or we can acknowledge that the BBBoC has one or two, or maybe more, people who are incompetent and that McPhilbin blew his gasket after a few rounds and was lacked the ability to change his approach when the fight, and yes it was one he should have won in the first, turned against him.

Do you think it should be declared a no contest, KG?

[JamesH]

I think Shane had one chance of winning that fight, he took it, and the chance for him to finish the job was snatched from him. He was never going to be good enough to outbox Enzo over the distance. He was seeking that one punch, he got it...

Not a huge fan of Shane as a fighter, he's not my cup of tea at all. So I'm not upset he lost his title, I'm irritated that an error that can only be committed by an apparent idiot has cost him his chance-in-a-lifetime cinderella moment. We all make mistakes in our respective roles, some are minor and can be rectified/glossed over, some would cost me my position...

I wouldn't feel happy just saying, its ok, the board has a few idiots who aren't up for the job, lets leave them to it. Whether or not it was an accidental mistake, it doesn't reflect well on boxing. And not being able to record 3 minutes is pathetic, particuarly when your sole remit is as timekeeper.

[damianhucker1]

Isnt transparency within the board pretty much what Jane got Suspended for asking for .

[dondada]

Please don't edit my post as we all have the right to freedom of speech.

You don't have the right to freedom of speech. That's a myth.

I really need to put a sticky about this. Here's an accessible but far too simplified outline:

If the person/people you're accusing of corruption wanted to take legal action for defamation of character, you - and/or the publisher of your accusation - would be in a very tricky position.

If it went all the way, you (and/or the publisher) would have to PROVE your accusation to be true in a court of law. Could you do that?

Even if you could - which is incredibly doubtful - it would cost you a huge amount of money to do so and even if you won, it's doubtful that you would recoup all your costs.

http://www.libelreform.org/

Here you are, hot off the press:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17512027

A million quid for a Twitter post.

From a previous newspaper report:

"The case has been described as a "clearcut" example of libel tourism, with Modi's lawyers claiming that the tweet was read by only 35 people in England and Wales, whereas evidence for Cairns claims a figure of up to 95."

[The Insider]

The reason the round was short was due to mechanical failure of the TC's watch. There will be a hearing this Thursday about the events and performance of the TC. The TC is required to start a count regardless of weather he thinks its a legal "down" or not. It is the Refs job to ascertain whether its legitimate or not.

[desperados]

IMO it was a con/screw job. This is just my opinion. Please don't edit my post as we all have the right to freedom of speech. I heard the bell ring twice. The bell first rang with 52 seconds left. Then it rang again with 47 seconds left.

indeed, whats the deal with edited posts?

the only person who will know if the early bell was a mistake or somthing more sinister is the official himself.

it's a boxing forum though, we should be allowed to discuss our opinions. Did liston take a dive? Did angelo dundee purposefully cut his fighters glove to give him extra time? Did margarito know about the plaster, did he use them for cotto? did the time keeper in the enzo mac fight make an unbelievable & unexplained error or was it deliberate?

[rhino222]

i still disagree that timekeeping is a tough job, as for it being the fellas first mistake then i would highlight the fact that it might be his first televised mistake, but how many small hall shows does the timekeeper balls up and no one is the witness?

as for judges scorecards being more corrupt than a muppet of a timekeeper..... judging and scoring are subjective, they are not an exact art..they are down to interpretation, like it or loathe it, thats not gonna change.

timekeeping is an exact art...there are no excuses, its a hell of a f**K up!!

[The Insider]

No conspiracy and no fix. Fact. This was simple human error by the TC. The watch he used was faulty. It is his responsibility to ensure the watches he uses are maintained correctly and serviced periodically. Obviously he didn't or neglected them. The hearing is Thursday and I doubt any thing more than a serious reprimand will be in order. You may not see him officiating on title fights anytime in the near future.

[dondada]

IMO it was a con/screw job. This is just my opinion. Please don't edit my post as we all have the right to freedom of speech. I heard the bell ring twice. The bell first rang with 52 seconds left. Then it rang again with 47 seconds left.

indeed, whats the deal with edited posts?

the only person who will know if the early bell was a mistake or somthing more sinister is the official himself.

it's a boxing forum though, we should be allowed to discuss our opinions. Did liston take a dive? Did angelo dundee purposefully cut his fighters glove to give him extra time? Did margarito know about the plaster, did he use them for cotto? did the time keeper in the enzo mac fight make an unbelievable & unexplained error or was it deliberate?

I've answered your initial question already and given you an example from today's news why you can't make certain accusations. Well, you can but please do so via your own site or maybe Twitter.

Liston and Dundee are dead so you're a lot safer there.

[desperados]

IMO it was a con/screw job. This is just my opinion. Please don't edit my post as we all have the right to freedom of speech. I heard the bell ring twice. The bell first rang with 52 seconds left. Then it rang again with 47 seconds left.

indeed, whats the deal with edited posts?

the only person who will know if the early bell was a mistake or somthing more sinister is the official himself.

it's a boxing forum though, we should be allowed to discuss our opinions. Did liston take a dive? Did angelo dundee purposefully cut his fighters glove to give him extra time? Did margarito know about the plaster, did he use them for cotto? did the time keeper in the enzo mac fight make an unbelievable & unexplained error or was it deliberate?

I've answered your initial question already and given you an example from today's news why you can't make certain accusations. Well, you can but please do so via your own site or maybe Twitter.

Liston and Dundee are dead so you're a lot safer there.

how is the forum different to twitter?

isn;t there a disclaimer somehwere on the forum that the views of its posters are not representative of boxrec?

it wasn't Twitter that was made to pay out, it's merely a platform. The twitter owners arent thrown in jail when someone posts somthing racist on twitter. If i post racist views on Facebook, Twitter, or a forum, then i'm to answer to them, not the platform i use to express those views.

Point taken though - i understand Boxrec's position and won't make any more posts regarding the matter.

[dondada]

Some Brits tried to act tough with Twitter. They just told them to do one as they're based in the States where libel law is very different and because they are very wealthy to boot.

So if you post there they'll come after you personally. They can do that here of course and it's happened with regards to this forum. But they come after the publisher too - this website. A disclaimer doesn't wash legally unfortunately.

Thanks for your consideration though. It's a right pain in the arse.

[Horse]

If a poster on this site was willing to give all of the information about themselves which would allow them to be sued as an individual. Would BoxRec also be liable for prosecution for what someone had written on this site?

[dondada]

If a poster on this site was willing to give all of the information about themselves which would allow them to be sued as an individual. Would BoxRec also be liable for prosecution for what someone had written?

Well the publishers behind it would be exposed to action rather than prosecution, aye.

[Horse]

Liable for action rather than prosecution, aye.

So even if BoxRec complied with everying that the courts demanded, and gave every bit of information about the poster that they could, and rejected everything that the poster said. They could still be "actioned" against?

That seems very unfair. Would the theoretical sublimation of BoxRec be looked at in a favourable light by the courts, or like a neutral event?