ApolloCreed wrote:I'd rather not blow you Johnny, thanks all the same.
Yes, you've made yourself well-known but personally, I'd rather not be known as a fighter who got beat 78 times out of 81 fights.
You come across as a good guy and fair play to you but it says something about the "sport" that journeymen like you are not just tolerated but lauded.
Yes, this is utopian, but in my opinion so long as there are fellas willing to go in and shamelessly lose, again, and again, and again, records will still be padded, fights the fans want to see will continue being avoided and when reasonably competitive fights eventually do happen, they will be PPV.
I also understand Apollos point but I feel that there's no shame in losing, in competition there'll be winners and losers. There are top class boxers with great amateur pedigree, sponsorship, connections and plenty of notice as to when a bout s on. Other boxers do not have those advantages but enjoy a scrap, are good enough to get paid for it and through their experience can teach the prospects/home boxer a thing or 2. If the journeyman is honest in his efforts and does the best on the night and loses there's no shame. If a boxer doesn't try hard enough compete or 'tries to lose' then that's different.
I'm not sure that journeymen boxers are the scourge of the sport and prevent good match ups; there are far worse influences on the sport.
I think you would spot straight away if someone like Johnny Greaves, or Alex Spitko, was not trying in there. The fight is made between fighters who have a gulf in class between them, no offence, but with the 'lesser' fighter still able to win if the 'better' man does not concentrate every single second, same as in every fight - switch off, and you're fcuked. There's more honesty in getting that fight made than there is in the promoters and the pundits BS'ing us over some dodgy import who goes down easier than a bangkok brass.
Captain Hook wrote:PS That said, the constant slagging off of some of our best boxers in recent years- notably Hatton, Khan and Calzaghe - makes my blood boil.
spot on hookie on both posts as usual, you aint bad for a taff are ya
Erm Apollo. I understand the problem you're getting at however.
I would venture the decisions arrived at by some of our judges deserve much more attention, as an avenue of incompetence, professional negligance or down right cheating than any performance offered by the likes of Greavesy. Funny old game.
Equally, can someone explain how Jane Couch won her case, because she pointed out the contradiction and hyprocrisy of the new BBB0FC rules about earning from the sport and the monies earned by BBBofC officials and yet nothing has been reported or done?
Journeymen don't con the public. Though I did see one win the first two rounds of a 4 rounder against a future world-title challenger and then quit with a 'shoulder' injury.
I'd argue poor officiating does. I'd argue presenting fights as world title fights despite neither participant ever having beat a top 20 opponent is conning the public. The BBBofC accepted all of these sanctioning bodies into the UK, I don't believe they were at liberty too?
Prospects should fight each other more often. Fact. But as Greavesy points out, they don't. So what next?
Perhaps it would pacify you if Greavesy and chums had a round robin and made sure each of them had some 'form' to take to their next clash with a 14-0 prospect.
In a way, you remind me of the current Tory government. Lets pick on the little guy, lets take away family tax credits, lets threaten child benefit, lets make cuts to his kids education budget, lets make thousands redundant from the public sector. Why?
Because the big cheeses who actually walked us into the mess are beyodn reproach. The TV, the board of Control and the Promoters seem to escape sanction, criticism (on the whole) and remain untouched. Much in the way big business, directors and bankers do.
Greavesy isn't the problem. A system that permits him to be 3-78 and still required maybe does, and if so, who creates that environment?
What sanctions were there when Paul Samuels nearly sparked Darren Barker and Barker was saved by the ref?
Where were the BBBofC when fighters were landing in the UK from the States 36 hours before a fight in a hush-hush?
All sorts go on behind the scenes that is overlooked, ignored and accepted.
Where was everyone over in Germany when the trouble before and after the fight began? Warren couldn't find the BBBofC official?
Has any official ever been suspended or downgraded based on poor scoring. Fury v McDermott for example? Or Earl v Vanzie I and II to think of two.
Why did we all support IBO, IBA, IBU, WBU, WBF fights?
These are the real crimes. Not Greavesy. If we sort out those bigger picture problems we can comeback to the little old journeyman who gets a call at 4hrs to 7 days notice to save a show for a kid who's sold 250 tickets.
DavidPayne wrote:
Prospects should fight each other more often. Fact. But as Greavesy points out, they don't. So what next?
I actually agree with your post, apart from the above.
It is all part of the self fulfilling prophecy, and journeymen are certainly part of the problem (this is not aimed at any individual boxer).
In answer to your question, if there were no journeymen then the prospects would be forced to box each other - there is no other alternative.
Lets not be naive. We all know that "journeymen" are there to pad a boxers record, move him around to give him "experience". They are expected to try (to a certain degree) but not to win - this is evidenced by the fact that if they do win they soon see the work dry up, and if they try too hard and are stopped by their opponent they will not work for 28 days, and they don't want that either.
If that isn't conning the public then I don't know what is.
billy williams ( alias bill the bomb) unfortunatly died two weeks ago in east london.( he was buried in plaistow cemetary) last wednesday
the 18th april 2012. with quite a few celebs turning up. I met bill on quite a few occassions when I used to dj in the beckton arms, ordnance arms, and pauls head pubs. when he used to come in, you see the fear in some peoples eyes that he was there. I never see him have a fight or slap any body although he had a rep for doing so. he always used to send us beers up to the decks ,even if we didnt want them ,and used to say thats for playing good music that he liked.but wouldnt let us buy one back for him. he always treated us with respect and said see you later when he left. I suppose everybody can have two sides to them but I only saw hes good side in person. so all I can say is, rest in peace bill the bomb.
Calm down David, I'm not picking on any little guy and I am certainly not a Tory.
My posts can be summed up in the question I asked - if you wish to direct a post at me, I'd rather you answer it than go off on a rant that addressed a lot of points that I didn't even raise.
The question was:
Would you rather see more good matches in boxing? You can't answer yes to this if you are happy to see fellas with 100 odd losses and a couple of wins still getting fights.
Johnny Greaves and yourself point out that prospects should fight each other more often but don't. I contend that if fellas with 3-100 records weren't still getting licensed, maybe they would fight each other.
And as I said, this is a utopian suggestion, I know that.
Hey there - this is a good topic and deserves its own thread but I agree with Apollo and highly respect johnny greaves. Johnny undoubtably can fight- just like Sid razak but the way the sport is managed/ promoted people need to stay unbeaten apparently . It's a joke.... I've had a number of fights fall through this year as an underdog just because I'd be too live I reckon. Not even fights I'd on paper be likely to win,
People want to see fights not 60-54's exhibitions.
Johnny is a huge success he does what he does very well, would I want to do that? No chance but I make ends meet a different way and don't have to rely on boxing for a fast buck thank God. From a fans point of view this list of fighters that have knocked me back this year is appalling ...
Good luck johnny but at the same time I wouldn't hate on Apollo I totally agree with him.
Jeff Thomas wrote:Hey there - this is a good topic and deserves its own thread but I agree with Apollo and highly respect johnny greaves. Johnny undoubtably can fight- just like Sid razak but the way the sport is managed/ promoted people need to stay unbeaten apparently . It's a joke.... I've had a number of fights fall through this year as an underdog just because I'd be too live I reckon. Not even fights I'd on paper be likely to win,
People want to see fights not 60-54's exhibitions.
Johnny is a huge success he does what he does very well, would I want to do that? No chance but I make ends meet a different way and don't have to rely on boxing for a fast buck thank God. From a fans point of view this list of fighters that have knocked me back this year is appalling ...
Good luck johnny but at the same time I wouldn't hate on Apollo I totally agree with him.
Strange really, I like to think of boxers would want someone who's going to have a go.Hope you get a good one soon.
Jeff Thomas wrote:Hey there - this is a good topic and deserves its own thread but I agree with Apollo and highly respect johnny greaves. Johnny undoubtably can fight- just like Sid razak but the way the sport is managed/ promoted people need to stay unbeaten apparently . It's a joke.... I've had a number of fights fall through this year as an underdog just because I'd be too live I reckon. Not even fights I'd on paper be likely to win,
People want to see fights not 60-54's exhibitions.
Johnny is a huge success he does what he does very well, would I want to do that? No chance but I make ends meet a different way and don't have to rely on boxing for a fast buck thank God. From a fans point of view this list of fighters that have knocked me back this year is appalling ...
Good luck johnny but at the same time I wouldn't hate on Apollo I totally agree with him.
Strange really, I like to think of boxers would want someone who's going to have a go.Hope you get a good one soon.
Johnny boxed Cardle last night and could have taken the easy way out. He did his best, throwing hard shots off the ropes. He was never going to win but made Scott work for it. Both got paid, no one got hurt, the crowd got to cheer their man and Cardle got to have a live bout instead of a spar. What's to get uptight about? I've to say that Greaves is a tough and game man, I've seen other more touted and lauded boxers bail out when they get a good whack; they're ok when dishing it but go to pieces when they get a bit back. More power to Cardle who loked a good prospect and to Greaves who kept on in there and fired back when he could.
palooka wrote:Johnny boxed Cardle last night and could have taken the easy way out. He did his best, throwing hard shots off the ropes. He was never going to win but made Scott work for it. Both got paid, no one got hurt, the crowd got to cheer their man and Cardle got to have a live bout instead of a spar. What's to get uptight about? I've to say that Greaves is a tough and game man, I've seen other more touted and lauded boxers bail out when they get a good whack; they're ok when dishing it but go to pieces when they get a bit back. More power to Cardle who loked a good prospect and to Greaves who kept on in there and fired back when he could.
I watched that fight because of this thread.
Johnny, you have some chin on you! It looked like he was a hard hitter.
Thanks pots, those last two posts were nice to read. It was a tough nights work ,but.I'm not just saying this either. Scott gave me more agg than nearly all previous opps. Had that touch of class & put it on me all thru the fight. Tried talking & putting him off but got no joy. If that boy don't win titles
Billy Williams fights on the beach tonight,, there's a old article from a Miami news paper with interview and photo of 'The Bomb'. You have to use the zoom out button to see the photo.
Eddy wrote:Billy Williams fights on the beach tonight,, there's a old article from a Miami news paper with interview and photo of 'The Bomb'. You have to use the zoom out button to see the photo.
